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Over/Under 1.5 more cups for Toews/Kane

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Old
07-09-2013, 11:58 AM
  #51
digdug41982
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Yeah, luck...way to trivialize great accomplishments that took a lot of talent and hard work.

If you're among the best and work harder than the rest, you'll be the best, simple as that. The Hawks certainly qualify in that regard.

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07-09-2013, 12:03 PM
  #52
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Luck is not unlike unleavened bread falling from the sky. Any team should have a sense of entitlement by that rationale.

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07-09-2013, 12:10 PM
  #53
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LOL @ being lucky to win a Cup. There is luck involved, but it's equal for every team.

The Hawks won the cup because of hard work, dedication, and talent. Luck is only 1% of it.

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07-09-2013, 12:13 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pi View Post
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/players/bio/?id=4509

I don't know if he had to pass through waivers but he was sent down a lot of times in 2009-2010.
Of course he was, that team was stacked and he was still young.

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07-09-2013, 12:14 PM
  #55
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If Toews and Kane stay here the rest of their career, i'll say over.

If they leave town in, say the next 5-8 years, i'll say under.

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07-09-2013, 12:16 PM
  #56
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Highly doubt that the rest of the league thinks the Blackhawks were lucky. The teams that had to play against them understand otherwise.

[Edit] Toews isn't going anywhere. Kane, we'll see.

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07-09-2013, 12:32 PM
  #57
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We weren't the 8th seed Kings winning the cup.

Luck had very little to do with our Cups. Especially this last one where we were the best team in the league literally the entire year.

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07-09-2013, 12:35 PM
  #58
digdug41982
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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
LOL @ being lucky to win a Cup. There is luck involved, but it's equal for every team.

The Hawks won the cup because of hard work, dedication, and talent. Luck is only 1% of it.
Exactly. Nobody wants to talk about how "lucky" the teams were that lost to the Hawks along the way. And if you believe luck was/is a big part of it...I don't know a nice way of putting it, but it's a disgrace to the accomplishment of winning the Cup. It's nihalistic...everything just happens and some people come out lucky, some don't. I'd put a ****ing bullet in my head if I actually believed that crap. If you aren't moving forward, you're standing still. Ever listen to these guys talk? All of them are ALWAYS talking about getting better as the key to their winning. Working harder to get better, to be better and ultimately prevail. That's why some of us have so much confidence in them. It isn't complex. Anyone can see a lot of talent there, but it's the attitude and work ethic that makes you feel like they can and will keep winning Cups. Maybe a similar team will come along at some point. It is certainly possible. I'll still take the Hawks against them any day, but I don't see anything like that brewing right now.

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07-09-2013, 12:35 PM
  #59
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I don't know what they will do. They could win 3 more in the Toews/Kane era, or they could not win another. Those of us old enough to remember the 85 Bears - we never would have thought that was going to be it. They were such an explosive and young team.

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07-09-2013, 01:03 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
Exactly. Nobody wants to talk about how "lucky" the teams were that lost to the Hawks along the way..
I also didn't hear anyone saying how lucky Phoenix was to beat us last year, I guess Hawks were just unlucky they didn't win the Cup the previous 2 years.

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07-09-2013, 01:27 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Sarava View Post
I don't know what they will do. They could win 3 more in the Toews/Kane era, or they could not win another. Those of us old enough to remember the 85 Bears - we never would have thought that was going to be it. They were such an explosive and young team.
This team's won a second one, though. Getting that second one (let alone in so short of a time period) is the hardest one in a lot of ways. At this point you're almost playing with house money, and this group is also that much more confident and full of that much more swagger now. Getting that second title is the big hump to get over.

Not disagreeing with your point, just illustrating the Hawks have moved past the "this is it" phase in only getting one title and being disappointed; they got that illusive second one that puts them in fairly rare air in modern sports and thus takes all bets off for them. Anyrhjng can happen because there is little precedent for this.

Winning a Cup is a downright ***** to accomplish, but I would be genuinely surprised if this group doesn't pull off at least one more. I'd put money down on the over. Not guaranteeing it, but I'm confident in what this group can do. They're already in a pretty special place having won two in such short order.

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07-09-2013, 01:29 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
I also didn't hear anyone saying how lucky Phoenix was to beat us last year, I guess Hawks were just unlucky they didn't win the Cup the previous 2 years.
Mike Smith was a brick wall. Hawks shelled him, and he didn't break.

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07-09-2013, 01:35 PM
  #63
Red Mosquito
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Originally Posted by Blue Liner View Post
This team's won a second one, though. Getting that second one (let alone in so short of a time period) is the hardest one in a lot of ways. At this point you're almost playing with house money, and this group is also that much more confident and full of that much more swagger now. Getting that second title is the big hump to get over.

Not disagreeing with your point, just illustrating the Hawks have moved past the "this is it" phase in only getting one title and being disappointed; they got that illusive second one that puts them in fairly rare air in modern sports and thus takes all bets off for them. Anyrhjng can happen because there is little precedent for this.

Winning a Cup is a downright ***** to accomplish, but I would be genuinely surprised if this group doesn't pull off at least one more. I'd put money down on the over. Not guaranteeing it, but I'm confident in what this group can do. They're already in a pretty special place having won two in such short order.
I think we've seen the resilience of this team. Look at the game the Coyotes eliminated the Hawks. The Hawks massively outplayed them and everything just went wrong. They probably should have won that game 6-2, instead of losing by several goals. Then go a year before - down 3-0 to the Nucks and took it to OT of game 7. This Hawks team is downright brutal for opponents to put away. The Wings found that out recently.

But you do need some things to happen to win cups. I'm not going to say luck. But you need some things to 'fall your way'. Like certain key players not getting inured. Or opponents getting injured or roughed up in previous rounds (as happened to the Kings this year). Winning a cup is the sum of thousands of things happening, most of which go your way.

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07-09-2013, 01:39 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Sarava View Post
I think we've seen the resilience of this team. Look at the game the Coyotes eliminated the Hawks. The Hawks massively outplayed them and everything just went wrong. They probably should have won that game 6-2, instead of losing by several goals. Then go a year before - down 3-0 to the Nucks and took it to OT of game 7. This Hawks team is downright brutal for opponents to put away. The Wings found that out recently.

But you do need some things to happen to win cups. I'm not going to say luck. But you need some things to 'fall your way'. Like certain key players not getting inured. Or opponents getting injured or roughed up in previous rounds (as happened to the Kings this year). Winning a cup is the sum of thousands of things happening, most of which go your way.
Agreed on all counts.

I'm glad I'm not quite old enough to really have experienced sports like an adult does during the 80s because the Bears would've been a huge disappointment for me given how great that team was and only winning one.

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07-09-2013, 01:40 PM
  #65
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Luck is when preparation meets opportunity.

Winning two cups is rare. Three is the cream of the crop. Four would place this team amongst the 80's Oilers and just behind the Habs.

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07-09-2013, 02:12 PM
  #66
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If I had to bet, I'd say over. This team is built to remain competitive for years to come. I think Toews/Kane will both sign 8 year deals, Keith is signed long term with an amazing cap hit, and the rest of the core should be here for at least a few more years.

Plus I like how the Hawks are taking after the Red Wings and drafting well then developing players until they're ready. Yeah they could go after big free agents or trades every season like the Rangers, but surrounding the core with the right depth players has worked out pretty well.

They have an amazing defense returning this year, and if they resign Hjalmarsson next season, that D could be around for another 2 years.

It's a great time to be a Hawks fan.

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07-09-2013, 04:13 PM
  #67
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Luck has a lot to do with winning a Cup.

Only a few teams can actually win a Cup every year, so of course talent and drive and those things come into it. Now after that it comes down to which team is usually the luckiest. The Hawks where lucky they had maybe the fewest injuries in the play-offs. Other then the Game 3 in Boston a core player didn't miss any more then that. They got lucky in some of the goals they scored and some of the goals that didn't get scored. Dugavins anyone? Luck plays a large part in winning a Stanley Cup, or breaks, bounces, etc. It's a lot more then just the guys played hard.

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07-09-2013, 04:22 PM
  #68
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Yeah, it's not as simple as, "The Hawks have a great team, so they should win 'x' amount of Cups."

Down 3-1 to the Wings, the Hawks should have lost. They didn't. Yes, a big part of that is their resilience, talent, hard work, etc.. but had Chicago no scored the 1st goal in game 5, the series might have been over give how the series had gone to that point.

All I'll say in this thread is that Chicago is positioned to be a contender for the next 5 years, and poised to be very competitive for the next 10-15. It's not as easy as saying it's simply up to the players to perform, but I would certainly hope to see Chicago win another Cup in the next 3-5 years.

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07-09-2013, 04:41 PM
  #69
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If Crawford, Hossa, Keith, Seabrook, and Sharp stay healthy, I think Toews/Kane can win 1 or 2 more. Otherwise, no.

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07-09-2013, 04:42 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarava View Post
I think we've seen the resilience of this team. Look at the game the Coyotes eliminated the Hawks. The Hawks massively outplayed them and everything just went wrong. They probably should have won that game 6-2, instead of losing by several goals. Then go a year before - down 3-0 to the Nucks and took it to OT of game 7. This Hawks team is downright brutal for opponents to put away. The Wings found that out recently.

But you do need some things to happen to win cups. I'm not going to say luck. But you need some things to 'fall your way'. Like certain key players not getting inured. Or opponents getting injured or roughed up in previous rounds (as happened to the Kings this year). Winning a cup is the sum of thousands of things happening, most of which go your way.
lol please, we took it to the kings. Our dmen completely neutralized their forecheck and we skated circles around them. The alignment of the moon had about as much to do with us pushing their **** in as their being "roughed up". We heard the same things about LA and Boston, too big, too tough, goalie too good, d too good, etc.. and we exposed both teams the same way-speed and pressure.


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Old
07-09-2013, 04:49 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Pi View Post
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/players/bio/?id=4509

I don't know if he had to pass through waivers but he was sent down a lot of times in 2009-2010.
Bickell never was on waivers, like I said. Stacked team with some little Cap problems. Much like Leddy 10/11, Bickell was in the the Rockford shuttle to save a little Cap Space if we need it while there were some injuries with regulars

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07-09-2013, 06:34 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Sir Psycho T View Post
Luck has a lot to do with winning a Cup.

Only a few teams can actually win a Cup every year, so of course talent and drive and those things come into it. Now after that it comes down to which team is usually the luckiest. The Hawks where lucky they had maybe the fewest injuries in the play-offs. Other then the Game 3 in Boston a core player didn't miss any more then that. They got lucky in some of the goals they scored and some of the goals that didn't get scored. Dugavins anyone? Luck plays a large part in winning a Stanley Cup, or breaks, bounces, etc. It's a lot more then just the guys played hard.
Every team gets lucky +/- the same amount throughout the course of a playoffs or season. Chicago wasn't anymore luckier than Boston, or Pittsburgh, or Detroit. They were the better team, which is why they won.

And again, were we just unlucky against PHX?

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Old
07-09-2013, 06:51 PM
  #73
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I highly HIGHLY doubt Bowman will let Kane and Toews ever wear a different sweater. Not just because of how good of players they are, but off of the marketing money they make. How many Kane and Toews jerseys do you see all over the city? Now, how many Bickell jerseys do you see, not many. Other than that, Kane and Toews are unbelievable players and will finish their careers in Chicago.

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07-09-2013, 07:38 PM
  #74
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If the Hawks can ever put together any semblance of a power play, I'll say they can win 2 more Cups.

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07-09-2013, 08:06 PM
  #75
HockeySensible
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
Every team gets lucky +/- the same amount throughout the course of a playoffs or season. Chicago wasn't anymore luckier than Boston, or Pittsburgh, or Detroit. They were the better team, which is why they won.

And again, were we just unlucky against PHX?
For the most part, yes. The Hawks dominated possessoin and had far more scoring chances.

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