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HHoF Poll

View Poll Results: Who would you vote for for the HHoF? You can vote for more than one.
Chris Chelios 158 91.33%
Scott Niedermayer 138 79.77%
Rob Blake 63 36.42%
Rod Brind'Amour 18 10.40%
Keith Tkachuk 12 6.94%
Paul Kariya 41 23.70%
Owen Nolan 4 2.31%
Brendan Shanahan 134 77.46%
Eric Lindros 111 64.16%
Dave Andreychuk 7 4.05%
Jeremy Roenick 22 12.72%
Theoren Fleury 45 26.01%
Markus Naslund 14 8.09%
Curtis Joseph 18 10.40%
Tom Barrasso 25 14.45%
Phil Housley 26 15.03%
Mike Vernon 13 7.51%
John LeClair 21 12.14%
Sergei Makarov 116 67.05%
Guy Carbonneau 36 20.81%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 173. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-08-2013, 03:54 PM
  #51
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Krutov

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07-08-2013, 04:18 PM
  #52
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To all those who are downgrading Rob Blake...shame on you. Blake was better than Niedermayer for most of their careers, and they played basically the entire same period of hockey. It wasn't a Bourque/Lidstrom or Potvin/Bourque situation where you had two all-time greats had overlap with one finishing out his prime in the first few years of the other's career. Of guys who started their careers in the early 90s, I'd rank Niedermayer behind Lidstrom, Pronger, Blake, and Zubov.

This year's class should be Makarov, Chelios, Blake, and one of Niedermayer or Shanahan.

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07-08-2013, 04:33 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
To all those who are downgrading Rob Blake...shame on you. Blake was better than Niedermayer for most of their careers, and they played basically the entire same period of hockey. It wasn't a Bourque/Lidstrom or Potvin/Bourque situation where you had two all-time greats had overlap with one finishing out his prime in the first few years of the other's career. Of guys who started their careers in the early 90s, I'd rank Niedermayer behind Lidstrom, Pronger, Blake, and Zubov.

This year's class should be Makarov, Chelios, Blake, and one of Niedermayer or Shanahan.
No matter how overrated you think Niedermayer is, he is getting in tomorrow. Blake is a HOFer but I rather see Makarov, Lindros or even Barrasso make it in this year. Blake can wait. Shanny too but I dont see him being passed over again.

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07-08-2013, 04:33 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
This year's class should be Makarov, Chelios, Blake
Quote:
Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
....and one of Niedermayer or Shanahan.
No way.

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07-08-2013, 04:35 PM
  #55
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Out of that list I chose these guys. I'm not a Nieds kool-aid drinker, but he's gonna make it regardless so me leaving him off seems like a waste of time.

Niedermayer
Shanahan
Chelios
Makarov
Lindros (I waivered here)
Carbonneau (I waivered here)

The rest I don't consider HOFers.

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07-08-2013, 04:42 PM
  #56
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For me there are six definite "yes" votes listed (Chelios, Niedermayer, Shanahan, Joseph, Barrasso, Makarov), and two definite "no" votes (Tkachuk, Nolan). Everyone else I could go either way on; nobody that would be a terrible oversight if they were passed over, or a horrible pick if they got in.

With everything going on in hockey the last two weeks (playoffs, draft, awards, free agency, etc.) I totally forgot that the inductions hadn't been made yet. They will be announced tomorrow (usually it's in late-June).

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07-08-2013, 05:24 PM
  #57
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Maybe someone will be voted in twice.

I bet they'll choose Chelios, Niedermayer, Shanahan and Kariya.


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07-08-2013, 05:39 PM
  #58
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If it was up to me, I'd vote:

2013 HHOF:

Chris Chelios -- obvious
Sergei Makarov -- long overdue, easily one of the top five forwards of the '80s (at worst)
Brendan Shanahan -- defining power forward of the '90s/'00s
Scott Niedermayer -- overrated, yeah, but he ticked off all the boxes

2014 HHOF:

Peter Forsberg -- obvious
Eric Lindros -- way too dominant in his prime to ignore
J.C. Tremblay -- a top 40 defenseman of all time, should be in before Blake
Theoren Fleury -- far more memorable and unique player than some of the guys who are in; would take him over a guy like Recchi any day.

For the record, I'd vote in Rob Blake, Paul Kariya, and Rogie Vachon eventually. Not at all sure about guys like Carbonneau, Recchi, Barrasso, Leclair, etc.


Last edited by Dissonance: 07-08-2013 at 05:46 PM.
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07-08-2013, 06:10 PM
  #59
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I didn't read the thread before voting and thus only voted for my ballot for this year: Chelios, Makarov, Niedermayer, and Shanahan. I'd also vote for Blake and probably Lindros, then let the others sit for a good while and see how their careers look with some time in the rear-view mirror.

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07-08-2013, 06:13 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
To all those who are downgrading Rob Blake...shame on you. Blake was better than Niedermayer for most of their careers, and they played basically the entire same period of hockey. It wasn't a Bourque/Lidstrom or Potvin/Bourque situation where you had two all-time greats had overlap with one finishing out his prime in the first few years of the other's career. Of guys who started their careers in the early 90s, I'd rank Niedermayer behind Lidstrom, Pronger, Blake, and Zubov.

This year's class should be Makarov, Chelios, Blake, and one of Niedermayer or Shanahan.
I agreed with most of your post except that.
Blake and Nieds should be close. but Zubov? He is a stratosphere below them defensively until much later in his career.

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07-08-2013, 08:37 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by nutbar View Post
Krutov
RIP but he isn't a HHOF guy, was too much a product of the system while the other 4 members of that unit at least had varying success in the NHL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dissonance View Post
If it was up to me, I'd vote:

2013 HHOF:

Chris Chelios -- obvious
Sergei Makarov -- long overdue, easily one of the top five forwards of the '80s (at worst)
Brendan Shanahan -- defining power forward of the '90s/'00s
Scott Niedermayer -- overrated, yeah, but he ticked off all the boxes

2014 HHOF:

Peter Forsberg -- obvious
Eric Lindros -- way too dominant in his prime to ignore
J.C. Tremblay -- a top 40 defenseman of all time, should be in before Blake
Theoren Fleury -- far more memorable and unique player than some of the guys who are in; would take him over a guy like Recchi any day.

For the record, I'd vote in Rob Blake, Paul Kariya, and Rogie Vachon eventually. Not at all sure about guys like Carbonneau, Recchi, Barrasso, Leclair, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Shadows View Post
I agreed with most of your post except that.
Blake and Nieds should be close. but Zubov? He is a stratosphere below them defensively until much later in his career.
I'd have Zubov ahead of JC, two guys who get treated very differently.

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07-08-2013, 09:26 PM
  #62
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Just because Blake was more physical than Niedermeyer doesn't make him better. Nieds had a better career, period.

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07-08-2013, 11:04 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Sentinel View Post
Just because Blake was more physical than Niedermeyer doesn't make him better. Nieds had a better career, period.
Blake's rookie year was 90-91 (with a handful played in 89-90). Nieds' was 92-93 (with a handful in 91-92). Let's compare their Norris and AST voting (ignoring that first year of under ten games).

Blake
YearNorrisAST
1990-91---13th
1991-92------
1992-93------
1993-94---11th
1994-95------
1995-96------
1996-97------
1997-981st1st
1998-9917th16th
1999-003rd3rd
2000-014th3rd
2001-023rd3rd
2002-035th5th
2003-048th8th
2005-0612th11th+
2006-07------
2007-08------
2008-09---21st
2009-10------

Note: in 2006, I don't know Blake's exact finish for the AST; the Awards thread only has the top ten for defensemen.

Niedermayer
YearNorrisAST
1992-93------
1993-94------
1994-95------
1995-96------
1996-97------
1997-985th4th
1998-9912th12th
1999-00---13th
2000-01---16th
2001-02---21st
2002-0313th12th
2003-041st1st
2005-062nd2nd
2006-072nd2nd
2007-0810th14th
2008-0910th9th
2009-10---17th

Niedermayer finishes top-five four times in a seventeen year career. Blake did it five times in a span of six seasons during his prime. Blake has as many top-three AST finishes as Niedermayer has top-eight finishes. Furthermore, Niedermayer's prime avoided guys like Chelios, Bourque, MacInnis, Leetch, Housley, and Stevens. He also was lucky enough to peak in years Pronger was injured.

Blake was better.

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07-09-2013, 01:51 AM
  #64
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...I'd have Zubov ahead of JC, two guys who get treated very differently.
Agreed with the treated very differently part, because they should be. JC is a 5 time Stanley Cup Champion who scored 65 points in 108 playoff games and is a Top 100 player. Zubov is not a top 170 player. Part of being a great defensemen is playing great defense all the time throughout your career.

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07-09-2013, 01:56 AM
  #65
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Chelios, Niedermayer, and Shanahan are locks IMO.

4th spot will probably go to Lindros.

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07-09-2013, 06:09 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Niedermayer finishes top-five four times in a seventeen year career. Blake did it five times in a span of six seasons during his prime. Blake has as many top-three AST finishes as Niedermayer has top-eight finishes. Furthermore, Niedermayer's prime avoided guys like Chelios, Bourque, MacInnis, Leetch, Housley, and Stevens. He also was lucky enough to peak in years Pronger was injured.
Blake was better.
Accomplishing something over how many years doesn't matter. What matters is that it happened in their career. Nieds' accomplishments were more spread out, so what? Everything else you listed is grasping at straws. Competition from Housley... wow, what a detriment!

Niedermeyer's Conn Smythe alone puts him higher. His leadership qualities are excellent: he could captain both underdog (or should I say "UnderDuck"?) and all-star teams to victories. He has four Cups to Blake's one (which he was not exactly the driving force). There is no question which one of them is better. And that ain't Blake.

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07-09-2013, 08:06 AM
  #67
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Agreed with the treated very differently part, because they should be. JC is a 5 time Stanley Cup Champion who scored 65 points in 108 playoff games and is a Top 100 player. Zubov is not a top 170 player. Part of being a great defensemen is playing great defense all the time throughout your career.
JC is not a top 100 player of all time.

There are some serious holes in that arguemnet that I will go over later.

Sure he was a a member of 5 SC teams but was only a post season all-star 2 times and even if we give playoffs a 25 compared to 75% for regular season it's hard to place JC that high.

Either way if we compare JC and Zubov in the playoffs it's at best a wash.

Like I said, I will more on this later, gotta hit the road right now.

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07-09-2013, 08:16 AM
  #68
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Should be in:

Sergei Makarov
Chris Chelios
Scott Niedermayer
Rob Blake
Paul Kariya
John LeClair
Brendan Shanahan
Eric Lindros


Borderline:

Keith Tkachuk
Jeremy Roenick
Theoren Fleury
Markus Naslund
Curtis Joseph
Tom Barrasso
Mike Vernon


Don't think so:

Owen Nolan
Phil Housley
Guy Carbonneau
Dave Andreychuk



This of course will not reflect in any way who does get in.

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07-09-2013, 09:29 AM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Blake's rookie year was 90-91 (with a handful played in 89-90). Nieds' was 92-93 (with a handful in 91-92). Let's compare their Norris and AST voting (ignoring that first year of under ten games).

Blake
YearNorrisAST
1990-91---13th
1991-92------
1992-93------
1993-94---11th
1994-95------
1995-96------
1996-97------
1997-981st1st
1998-9917th16th
1999-003rd3rd
2000-014th3rd
2001-023rd3rd
2002-035th5th
2003-048th8th
2005-0612th11th+
2006-07------
2007-08------
2008-09---21st
2009-10------

Note: in 2006, I don't know Blake's exact finish for the AST; the Awards thread only has the top ten for defensemen.

Niedermayer
YearNorrisAST
1992-93------
1993-94------
1994-95------
1995-96------
1996-97------
1997-985th4th
1998-9912th12th
1999-00---13th
2000-01---16th
2001-02---21st
2002-0313th12th
2003-041st1st
2005-062nd2nd
2006-072nd2nd
2007-0810th14th
2008-0910th9th
2009-10---17th

Niedermayer finishes top-five four times in a seventeen year career. Blake did it five times in a span of six seasons during his prime. Blake has as many top-three AST finishes as Niedermayer has top-eight finishes. Furthermore, Niedermayer's prime avoided guys like Chelios, Bourque, MacInnis, Leetch, Housley, and Stevens. He also was lucky enough to peak in years Pronger was injured.

Blake was better.
You might want to remove Housley from that list Worst guy in his own end that I have ever seen and not a Norris threat.

But overall, we all know and agree the period after 2003 was awful in terms of competition for the Norris(Heck, it was not as strong even a few years before that since all the best were well past their primes). Even if you say Pronger is healthy in 06-07, what does that change overall? Pronger wins the Norris even over Lidstrom that year, but Nieds only gets bumped from 2nd to 3rd.

Which other years was he lucky Pronger was injured in? Pronger was healthy the year Nieds won the Norris in 03-04 and Lidstrom was just not himself that year.

Their regular seasons if anything, look very similar. Difference being, Nieds played on a better team, but also on a team that curtailed his ability to jump into the play with his skating like he could. Overall, the year he won the Smythe was not even his best playoff year(02-03 was)

Playoffs easily still belong to Nieds over Blake.

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07-09-2013, 01:27 PM
  #70
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You might want to remove Housley from that list Worst guy in his own end that I have ever seen and not a Norris threat.

But overall, we all know and agree the period after 2003 was awful in terms of competition for the Norris(Heck, it was not as strong even a few years before that since all the best were well past their primes). Even if you say Pronger is healthy in 06-07, what does that change overall? Pronger wins the Norris even over Lidstrom that year, but Nieds only gets bumped from 2nd to 3rd.

Which other years was he lucky Pronger was injured in? Pronger was healthy the year Nieds won the Norris in 03-04 and Lidstrom was just not himself that year.
This I disagree with partially. Lidstrom played a more defensive style of hockey due to the departure (and lack of offensive replacement) of Fedorov in the offseason; the Wings were forced to play more defensively in order to win. I also think Niedermayer's Norris is a farce (I would have given it to Pronger) but it is what it is. Of course, as you likely know, I think the same of Blake's Norris, and if I handed out the awards NEITHER would have won a Norris trophy.

Quote:
Their regular seasons if anything, look very similar. Difference being, Nieds played on a better team, but also on a team that curtailed his ability to jump into the play with his skating like he could. Overall, the year he won the Smythe was not even his best playoff year(02-03 was)
Niedermayer's "jumping into the play" was hardly curtailed. If there's one player on the Devils who was allowed offensive freedom, it's Niedermayer. He was never at any point significantly better defensively than Blake, except for perhaps his short peak. And Blake ALWAYS had a HUGE physical edge.

Quote:
Playoffs easily still belong to Nieds over Blake.
Really? Each has one Stanley Cup, Blake has a better PPG, and Blake played on worse teams throughout his career. Blake also played the majority of his playoff games outside of his prime, while the opposite is true of Niedermayer.

The opposition never had to worry about an offensive threat from another defenseman on Blake's team aside from one season with Raymond Bourque. Niedermayer played with Scott Stevens, who produced well at even strength despite no longer putting up PP numbers (due largely to reduced time, thanks to Niedermayer getting played tons) and later Brian Rafalski, Chris Pronger, etc.

Blake. Was. Better. He's the fourth-best defenseman of the group of guys who began between 1988 and 1994; Lidstrom, Pronger, Leetch, Blake, Zubov, Niedermayer are the top-six in order.

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07-09-2013, 01:50 PM
  #71
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Really? Each has one Stanley Cup, Blake has a better PPG, and Blake played on worse teams throughout his career. Blake also played the majority of his playoff games outside of his prime, while the opposite is true of Niedermayer.

The opposition never had to worry about an offensive threat from another defenseman on Blake's team aside from one season with Raymond Bourque. Niedermayer played with Scott Stevens, who produced well at even strength despite no longer putting up PP numbers (due largely to reduced time, thanks to Niedermayer getting played tons) and later Brian Rafalski, Chris Pronger, etc.

Blake. Was. Better. He's the fourth-best defenseman of the group of guys who began between 1988 and 1994; Lidstrom, Pronger, Leetch, Blake, Zubov, Niedermayer are the top-six in order.
What? Niedermayer has 4 Stanley Cups.

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07-09-2013, 02:02 PM
  #72
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Niedermayer's "jumping into the play" was hardly curtailed. If there's one player on the Devils who was allowed offensive freedom, it's Niedermayer.
This might have been true later in his career, but certainly wasn't true when Jacques Lemaire was coach (through 1997-98). If there was one thing that distinguished Lemaire's Trap from later Devils systems, it was that defensemen were effectively prohibited from taking chances.

Quote:
Really? Each has one Stanley Cup, Blake has a better PPG, and Blake played on worse teams throughout his career. Blake also played the majority of his playoff games outside of his prime, while the opposite is true of Niedermayer.
As already indicated, Niedermayer has 4 Cups. And while I think he gets too much credit for winning the 1995 and 2000 Cups as a secondary player, he had Smythe-worthy performances in both 2003 and 2007.

Quote:
The opposition never had to worry about an offensive threat from another defenseman on Blake's team aside from one season with Raymond Bourque. Niedermayer played with Scott Stevens, who produced well at even strength despite no longer putting up PP numbers (due largely to reduced time, thanks to Niedermayer getting played tons) and later Brian Rafalski, Chris Pronger, etc.
Niedermayer didn't play with Stevens at even strength after his first season or two in New Jersey. He usually played with Ken Daneyko on the second pairing.

Quote:
Blake. Was. Better. He's the fourth-best defenseman of the group of guys who began between 1988 and 1994; Lidstrom, Pronger, Leetch, Blake, Zubov, Niedermayer are the top-six in order.
I think there's a good case that Blake and Niedermayer were very close in the regular season, but Niedermayer does have a fairly significant playoff advantage. Yes, Blake was great in 1993 and 2001, but not Niedermayer-great.

I have no idea how you can possibly rank Zubov over Niedermayer though. Both are guys who had late career peaks where a lot of people project that back and think they were better than they actually were. But Niedermayer's peak was longer and better.

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07-09-2013, 02:05 PM
  #73
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chelios and neids are in. and shanny.

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07-09-2013, 02:08 PM
  #74
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Im pretty sure they will.

I will be shocked if Lindros makes it in. I hope he does but I think it will be Blake as the 4th inductee.
The media loves Niedermeyer. He's won at every level will be said many times. Scott deserves to be in the HHOF but he is overrated.

Chelios is at least a tier ahead of Scott.

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07-09-2013, 02:14 PM
  #75
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That's a hard snub for Makarov. Not bumped out by anyone else, just flat out rejected.

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