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HHoF Poll

View Poll Results: Who would you vote for for the HHoF? You can vote for more than one.
Chris Chelios 158 91.33%
Scott Niedermayer 138 79.77%
Rob Blake 63 36.42%
Rod Brind'Amour 18 10.40%
Keith Tkachuk 12 6.94%
Paul Kariya 41 23.70%
Owen Nolan 4 2.31%
Brendan Shanahan 134 77.46%
Eric Lindros 111 64.16%
Dave Andreychuk 7 4.05%
Jeremy Roenick 22 12.72%
Theoren Fleury 45 26.01%
Markus Naslund 14 8.09%
Curtis Joseph 18 10.40%
Tom Barrasso 25 14.45%
Phil Housley 26 15.03%
Mike Vernon 13 7.51%
John LeClair 21 12.14%
Sergei Makarov 116 67.05%
Guy Carbonneau 36 20.81%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 173. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-09-2013, 02:19 PM
  #76
pdd
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Originally Posted by Epsilon View Post
What? Niedermayer has 4 Stanley Cups.
I was brain farting. Ok, I'll rephrase. Each contributed importantly to one Stanley Cup.

Anyway, it's a team achievement (see Kirk Maltby vs. Marcel Dionne) and isn't a significant point in "who's better".

It does matter for "HHOF induction", and Niedermayer's "amount of things won" are why I would slot him over Shanny (even though I slot Shanny as the overall better player).

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07-09-2013, 02:20 PM
  #77
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That's a hard snub for Makarov. Not bumped out by anyone else, just flat out rejected.
If Makarov didn't get into the 2008 class, when there were no newly eligible NHL players because of the lockout, and they have the opportunity to induct him next to his long term teammate Larionov, he's not getting in until they completely overhaul the Selection Committee.

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07-09-2013, 02:28 PM
  #78
King Woodballs
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In terms of players going in, I am okay with this.
I am meh on Chelios.. but I would rather see him then Lindros in.

Burns just got jobbed AGAIN.

Fred Shero was a good coach and all, and maybe should have been in a while ago.... But Burns was a better coach IMO.

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07-09-2013, 02:32 PM
  #79
tarheelhockey
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Originally Posted by ManOnASilverMountain View Post
Burns just got jobbed AGAIN.

Fred Shero was a good coach and all, and maybe should have been in a while ago.... But Burns was a better coach IMO.
It's the builders' wing, not the coaches' wing. Shero was clearly more of a builder than Burns.

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07-09-2013, 02:34 PM
  #80
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A fourth player ike Lindros or Blake could easily be inducted but these idiots continue to create a backlog of 90s stars.

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07-09-2013, 02:37 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
It's the builders' wing, not the coaches' wing. Shero was clearly more of a builder than Burns.
still doesnt stop the fact that he should have been in before he died.

his resume shows that.

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07-09-2013, 02:39 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by ManOnASilverMountain View Post
In terms of players going in, I am okay with this.
I am meh on Chelios.. but I would rather see him then Lindros in.

Burns just got jobbed AGAIN.

Fred Shero was a good coach and all, and maybe should have been in a while ago.... But Burns was a better coach IMO.
How could you say Lindros deserves to get in more than Chelios? Chelios has three Norris trophies, five first team all star selections, two second team selections and three Stanley Cups. IMO, he's the head of this class of inductees, despite TSN pushing Niedermayer as the cream of this year's crop.

Overall, I'm happy with the inductees. Makarov should be in but by now you have to expect he'll never make it.

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07-09-2013, 02:42 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by ManOnASilverMountain View Post
still doesnt stop the fact that he should have been in before he died.

his resume shows that.

So how does that mean he was "jobbed" this time?

And for that matter, how does his resume qualify him as a builder?

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07-09-2013, 02:45 PM
  #84
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Yeah, I've never really understood the big clamor for Burns as a builder other than sentimentality. He never stayed with a team for more than a few years and mostly was responsible for taking veteran teams to successful heights. If they ever make a coaches-specific wing, then sure.

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07-09-2013, 02:46 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Habsfunk View Post
How could you say Lindros deserves to get in more than Chelios? Chelios has three Norris trophies, five first team all star selections, two second team selections and three Stanley Cups. IMO, he's the head of this class of inductees, despite TSN pushing Niedermayer as the cream of this year's crop.

Overall, I'm happy with the inductees. Makarov should be in but by now you have to expect he'll never make it.
I didnt

I said I would have rather seen Chelios in then Lindros in.

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07-09-2013, 02:46 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by ManOnASilverMountain View Post
In terms of players going in, I am okay with this.
I am meh on Chelios.. but I would rather see him then Lindros in.

Burns just got jobbed AGAIN.

Fred Shero was a good coach and all, and maybe should have been in a while ago.... But Burns was a better coach IMO.
Perhaps you should reconsider how you evaluate hockey players if you are "meh" on a top 10-15 defenseman of all-time.

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07-09-2013, 02:47 PM
  #87
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Then maybe Gretzky should be in as a builder too then.

Because he built the game more then anyone else.


#HFLogic

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07-09-2013, 02:48 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by ManOnASilverMountain View Post
Then maybe Gretzky should be in as a builder too then.

Because he built the game more then anyone else.


#HFLogic

It was a simple, straightforward question. No need to dodge it.

In what way was Pat Burns a builder?

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07-09-2013, 02:55 PM
  #89
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Yeah, I've never really understood the big clamor for Burns as a builder other than sentimentality. He never stayed with a team for more than a few years and mostly was responsible for taking veteran teams to successful heights. If they ever make a coaches-specific wing, then sure.
Since the builder's wing is something like half coaches, I don't blame people for getting it confused.

I think Pat Burns deserves to be in the HHOF based on his accomplishments, but I realize he doesn't really fit a category per se.


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07-09-2013, 03:15 PM
  #90
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A bloody shame about Makarov. An argument can be made that he was one of top 3 wingers of the 80s. And, of course, to me he is the best Russian player of all time. Led the Soviet league nine times in scoring, three time MVP. Shame.

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07-09-2013, 03:18 PM
  #91
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A bloody shame about Makarov. An argument can be made that he was one of top 3 wingers of the 80s. And, of course, to me he is the best Russian player of all time. Led the Soviet league nine times in scoring, three time MVP. Shame.
Agreed. By far the most glaring oversight in the HHOF.

The committee eventually came around on Mark Howe so I assume they'll come around on Makarov, but I'd be curious to know what possible reason(s) they can think up for excluding him.

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07-09-2013, 03:56 PM
  #92
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I didnt

I said I would have rather seen Chelios in then Lindros in.
Sorry, I misread your post.

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07-09-2013, 04:00 PM
  #93
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A bloody shame about Makarov. An argument can be made that he was one of top 3 wingers of the 80s. And, of course, to me he is the best Russian player of all time. Led the Soviet league nine times in scoring, three time MVP. Shame.
Yeah. As far as i can tell russian hockey of the eighties was roughly as good as during the earlier generation, and no-one there dominated the league like he did. Perhaps there was a few more stars during the seventies i dont know, but i cant believe that Makarov, Krutov, Larionov, Fetisov and Kasatonov were worse than Kharlamov and the bunch, at their respective rank amongst them.

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07-09-2013, 04:02 PM
  #94
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Selections went as expected. The two first-ballot slam dunks for induction (Niedermayer and Chelios) are in. The guy who should have been in on the first ballot last year (Shanahan) is in. I thought they might go with one more to clear up the backlog (my money would have been on Makarov), but I thought it was more likely to have three inductees rather than four.

Lindros is going to wait a while. The question is whether he'll have to wait six years, which was the wait for Neely and Bure - guys who had remarkable peaks, but a lack of longevity. Lindros is likely more polarizing than those two guys; he might have more support, but he also likely has more detractors, and they've all made up their minds on him. Nobody is ambivalent on Lindros' induction; nobody is going to be swayed.

There were about half a dozen recent retirees who have some form of a legit case: Lindros, Blake, Andreychuk, Kariya, Fleury and Housley. None got in this year. Doesn't disappoint me. Blake's most likely to be inducted, although he might not be the first, since he's a first ballot guy, and the others (except for Kariya) have been eligible for multiple years.

Interestingly enough: at the time of writing this, Chelios, Niedermayer and Shanahan are the three guys in this poll who have at least 78 per cent support, which is roughly the number needed to be enshrined.

It won't get any easier for the guys who were snubbed this year, either. Next year's first-year crop is strong. Hasek and Modano are mortal locks. Forsberg is a compelling case, but I think he should go in first ballot. And then you have the longevity guy: Mark Recchi.

As I've said before, did I view Recchi as a future HHOFer when I watched him play? No. But eventually, you reach certain milestones that make the HHOF undeniable. Getting one point in The Show is a remarkable 1,500 points? That's incredible. (He's at 1,680 including playoffs). There are 13 players with 1,500 points. They're all in the HHOF. In fact, anyone with 1,350 points is in the HHOF. And he's the only member of the 1,500-point club to get a ring with three different teams.

Recchi wasn't sensational. He wasn't dominant. Several guys outside of the HHOF had a better peak. (Notably Lindros and Kariya). But he was good enough to play into his 40s as an offensive producer. He wasn't one-dimensional, but he wasn't going to keep his job with back-checking skills. He has hit levels that few in the game have achieved, and while you could call him a suitcase, he won three rings while being a point-producing nomad. That's why he'll be enshrined; that's why I hope it happens next year.

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07-09-2013, 04:41 PM
  #95
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Forsberg is a compelling case, but I think he should go in first ballot.
I don't understand why people even question if Forsberg is a first ballot Hall of Famer.

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07-09-2013, 05:07 PM
  #96
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The media loves Niedermeyer. He's won at every level will be said many times. Scott deserves to be in the HHOF but he is overrated.

Chelios is at least a tier ahead of Scott.
Oh man, we aren't in the business of elevating Niedermayer that high now are we? Chelios? Are we kidding here? Niedermayer deserves the HHOF, fine, but he was a perennial late bloomer and had his last elite season when he was 33-34. That is a significantly lower amount of elite seasons than what we saw from Chelios. But I guess some people forget much about Niedermayer that way.

I can't see why Blake is left out. I am not sure if Geraldine Heaney from the women's wing counts as one of the 4 players, but if she does, wow.

Honest question here, does the women's inductees go against the maximum of 4?

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07-09-2013, 06:09 PM
  #97
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Oh man, we aren't in the business of elevating Niedermayer that high now are we? Chelios? Are we kidding here? Niedermayer deserves the HHOF, fine, but he was a perennial late bloomer and had his last elite season when he was 33-34. That is a significantly lower amount of elite seasons than what we saw from Chelios. But I guess some people forget much about Niedermayer that way.

I can't see why Blake is left out. I am not sure if Geraldine Heaney from the women's wing counts as one of the 4 players, but if she does, wow.

Honest question here, does the women's inductees go against the maximum of 4?
Everything I've read indicates they are evaluated separately.

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07-09-2013, 06:09 PM
  #98
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Honest question here, does the women's inductees go against the maximum of 4?
And honestly I dont really know. What I do know is that Womens Hockey is considered a Sub-Category if you will, however, with only 4 players in total being inducted each year, 2 Builders & 1 On-Ice Official, not sure what to make of it as clearly it seems capped "overall", sub-category or not.

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07-09-2013, 06:18 PM
  #99
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If Makarov didn't get into the 2008 class, when there were no newly eligible NHL players because of the lockout, and they have the opportunity to induct him next to his long term teammate Larionov, he's not getting in until they completely overhaul the Selection Committee.
Both Makarov and Krutov were better players than Larionov.

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07-09-2013, 07:00 PM
  #100
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And honestly I dont really know. What I do know is that Womens Hockey is considered a Sub-Category if you will, however, with only 4 players in total being inducted each year, 2 Builders & 1 On-Ice Official, not sure what to make of it as clearly it seems capped "overall", sub-category or not.
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Everything I've read indicates they are evaluated separately.
I see.

So if they are truly seperate (I'm not a huge fan of them pushing a sport no one is watching either) then how can they not figure out a 4th NHLer? I often wonder in that room what they are thinking. Is Rob Blake going to be all of the sudden a legit HHOFer next year? It isn't as if there were too many first time eligible players here and Blake just got knocked out because of a numbers game. It reminds me of 2010. Dino is the only one inducted. Somehow Oates and Gilmour didn't belong but one year later they did? In my opinion you are either a HHOFer or you aren't. If you are, and all the backlog of players had better careers than you then I can understand why you may have to wait. But if there was an opening all I can say is what is the argument for Blake waiting? Is there anyone here who doesn't see him as a HHOFer?

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