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Old
07-09-2013, 01:33 PM
  #226
Roy S
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Originally Posted by obey86 View Post
Am I the only one who hopes Andersson keeps the 3rd line center spot over Helm?
He'll be the 4th line center. Helm was a significantly better point producer at even strength in that spot and he's just a better, more complete player (assuming he's healthy).

Helm's pts per 60 minutes was 1.95 in 11-12 and 1.91 in 10-11. Helm is actually a far better point producer at even strength in that role than he is given credit for. Andersson's was at 1.06 pts/60 last season.

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07-09-2013, 02:41 PM
  #227
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What would it take for the Oilers to get Andersson?

Could we do a larger deal (pending we sign Grabo) like Gagner for Andersson + Abdelkaker + Miller? Too much?

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07-09-2013, 03:10 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by Gobo View Post
What would it take for the Oilers to get Andersson?

Could we do a larger deal (pending we sign Grabo) like Gagner for Andersson + Abdelkaker + Miller? Too much?
we dont need gagner. just signed weiss. mps for andersson + miller?

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07-09-2013, 04:38 PM
  #229
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Originally Posted by obey86 View Post
Am I the only one who hopes Andersson keeps the 3rd line center spot over Helm?
I think we don't have a 4th line at next season. Two equally used 3rd lines. It doesn't matter who centers the 3rd A and 3rd B.

Both Helm and Andersson will have same kind of role. ES time and PK. Maybe Helm should have a reduced role at start of the season, just to save his back. Switch the roles at playoff time if everthing goes well.

Wouldn't mind:

3A Nyquist - Andersson - Tatar (why waste that awesome AHL chemistry?)
3B Miller - Helm - Tootoo/Eaves

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07-09-2013, 04:40 PM
  #230
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Originally Posted by Gobo View Post
What would it take for the Oilers to get Andersson?

Could we do a larger deal (pending we sign Grabo) like Gagner for Andersson + Abdelkaker + Miller? Too much?
Andersson + Miller + Ferraro for Gagner and 2nd round pick?

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07-09-2013, 04:43 PM
  #231
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Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
I think we don't have a 4th line at next season. Two equally used 3rd lines. It doesn't matter who centers the 3rd A and 3rd B.

Both Helm and Andersson will have same kind of role. ES time and PK. Maybe Helm should have a reduced role at start of the season, just to save his back. Switch the roles at playoff time if everthing goes well.

Wouldn't mind:

3A Nyquist - Andersson - Tatar (why waste that awesome AHL chemistry?)
3B Miller - Helm - Tootoo/Eaves
I really like the look of those bottom lines. I think Helm could play some sheltered minutes, especially early on to make sure he can handle it. I still believe that Andersson has a higher offensive upside, too - working as a big body around the front of the net while Tatar and Nyquist handle the puck. I think it would make for a fairly effective 3rd line.

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07-09-2013, 04:46 PM
  #232
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Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
I think we don't have a 4th line at next season. Two equally used 3rd lines. It doesn't matter who centers the 3rd A and 3rd B.

Both Helm and Andersson will have same kind of role. ES time and PK. Maybe Helm should have a reduced role at start of the season, just to save his back. Switch the roles at playoff time if everthing goes well.

Wouldn't mind:

3A Nyquist - Andersson - Tatar (why waste that awesome AHL chemistry?)
3B Miller - Helm - Tootoo/Eaves
I like those lines a lot. However, unless Bert and Sammy get LTIR'd and Cleary doesn't get brought back. That's just a pipe dream.

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07-09-2013, 06:08 PM
  #233
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Originally Posted by Jesusberg View Post
I really like the look of those bottom lines. I think Helm could play some sheltered minutes, especially early on to make sure he can handle it. I still believe that Andersson has a higher offensive upside, too - working as a big body around the front of the net while Tatar and Nyquist handle the puck. I think it would make for a fairly effective 3rd line.
God I hope so.

I've seen Helm play for a few years now. I'm not sure there's much offense there haha. Speed demon with hands of stone. Really unfortunate. But hey, he's a monster on the PK, works hard, and is a little bottle of lightning out there.

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07-09-2013, 06:18 PM
  #234
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God I hope so.

I've seen Helm play for a few years now. I'm not sure there's much offense there haha. Speed demon with hands of stone. Really unfortunate. But hey, he's a monster on the PK, works hard, and is a little bottle of lightning out there.
4th line sucked really bad at last season. And I think the reason is Emmerton. You'll need a stronger center there. Adding Helm, it would be an instant upgrade for the whole line. It then becomes the 3B, not 4th line.

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07-09-2013, 09:23 PM
  #235
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Originally Posted by landskronala View Post
we dont need gagner. just signed weiss. mps for andersson + miller?
I still like Paajarvi, and would love to see the wings get him into the fold some how. I'm not sure what Edmonton would want/need, though. I think they could use some more vets to set the day to day tone with the kids, but the ones we have to trade probably aren't appealing enough to pull MPS.

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07-10-2013, 01:52 AM
  #236
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Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
4th line sucked really bad at last season. And I think the reason is Emmerton. You'll need a stronger center there. Adding Helm, it would be an instant upgrade for the whole line. It then becomes the 3B, not 4th line.
I agree as well on the helm down a line approach. You have a 1,2 3a and 3b lines at forward then.

It makes my lliver hurt to say this but I can live with abby on z and d's line. It makes whatever the 3rd line much more effective (be it helm or andersson with tatar and nyquist). I am a proponent of andersson with the other young guys as well. Why waste the chemistry they have developed with each other.

I hope we keep tootoo but I can see him get moved but I would like him as a 12/13th forward. Play him when we need his presence or sit him when we need one of miller/eaves more.

I can live with a forward lineup of z,d, abby..... franzen, weiss, alfie.... nyquist, andersson, tatar.... miller, helm, eaves.

I hope we can move out quincy for a stay a home dependable type for smith and roll the d pairings we had last year with lashoff as 7th. Wouldn't mind quincy getting hurt for a couple of weeks and lash playing everyday to hopefully up his trade level. I would be suprised if lash was still on our team by his contracts end due to our ahl kids pushing for a spot. Or we sign a vet bottom pairing d and just unload quincy for a pick and cap room.

1st pp I believe has to be z, d, alfie forward wise and I would like second line wise franzen, weiss, nyquist/tatar.

Really really hope that sammy and bert our ltir'd this year.

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Old
07-10-2013, 10:51 AM
  #237
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Babs interview.

FA didn't go last few years as they planned, this year though they did good job.

Strong push in playiffs backend skates well, allowed to get Weiss behind D and Z.

Alfie is smart, very good hockey IQ, thinks he fits well, RH shot, very competitive.

With new environment, competitive people, feels Weiss will be that much better.

Expects Alfie to be great for players and himself, to learn a lot from him.

Believe in 5 year process between drafting and contributing NHL. Esp. skilled players who are developing, they won't develop in NHL if/as they won't have the puck, they get to do that in lower levels.

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07-12-2013, 11:25 AM
  #238
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I didn't see a better spot for this. If there is one, please feel free to move it.

Anyhow, it appears the log-jam on the blue line in Phoenix has materialized a season sooner than I expected (or would have liked).

We've got way too many guys on one-way contracts (or deserving of one-way contracts).

David Rundblad is currently without a deal, and I really can't see him accepting a two-way. Having already signed Stone and Summers to one-way deals this summer, I'm guessing he's the odd man out. This is fairly shocking to me as I consider him second only to Gormley in terms of blue line prospects. I'd rank him ahead of every other kid in the system.

Does Detroit have any room for him on the NHL roster, or are you all full up? I was thinking that with all of the forward prospects you guys have in the system there might be a fit. However, I'm not totally clear on the blue line situation up in Detroit.

Thoughts?

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07-12-2013, 11:29 AM
  #239
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Originally Posted by rt View Post
I didn't see a better spot for this. If there is one, please feel free to move it.

Anyhow, it appears the log-jam on the blue line in Phoenix has materialized a season sooner than I expected (or would have liked).

We've got way too many guys on one-way contracts (or deserving of one-way contracts).

David Rundblad is currently without a deal, and I really can't see him accepting a two-way. Having already signed Stone and Summers to one-way deals this summer, I'm guessing he's the odd man out. This is fairly shocking to me as I consider him second only to Gormley in terms of blue line prospects. I'd rank him ahead of every other kid in the system.

Does Detroit have any room for him on the NHL roster, or are you all full up? I was thinking that with all of the forward prospects you guys have in the system there might be a fit. However, I'm not totally clear on the blue line situation up in Detroit.

Thoughts?
We already have 7 Dmen. If we were to add one, one would have to go. Though, I think Quincey goes anyways for cap space to resign Smith, Nyquist, Andersson, ect...

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07-12-2013, 11:36 AM
  #240
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Originally Posted by rt View Post
Does Detroit have any room for him on the NHL roster, or are you all full up? I was thinking that with all of the forward prospects you guys have in the system there might be a fit. However, I'm not totally clear on the blue line situation up in Detroit.

Thoughts?
Great prospect, but we don't have room for him. I think our defense is going to be staying the same until next offseason. Plus our defense is pretty young as it is.

Kronwall - Ericsson
DeKeyser - Kindl
Quincey - Smith

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07-12-2013, 11:41 AM
  #241
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Originally Posted by rt View Post
I didn't see a better spot for this. If there is one, please feel free to move it.

Anyhow, it appears the log-jam on the blue line in Phoenix has materialized a season sooner than I expected (or would have liked).

We've got way too many guys on one-way contracts (or deserving of one-way contracts).

David Rundblad is currently without a deal, and I really can't see him accepting a two-way. Having already signed Stone and Summers to one-way deals this summer, I'm guessing he's the odd man out. This is fairly shocking to me as I consider him second only to Gormley in terms of blue line prospects. I'd rank him ahead of every other kid in the system.

Does Detroit have any room for him on the NHL roster, or are you all full up? I was thinking that with all of the forward prospects you guys have in the system there might be a fit. However, I'm not totally clear on the blue line situation up in Detroit.

Thoughts?
As awesome as that would be, he would be equally lost in our shuffle here. I want to see him play in the NHL.

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07-12-2013, 04:20 PM
  #242
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Originally Posted by fabricoh View Post
No, I like Andersson in the 3C spot and he proved to be a much more consistent producer on offense than Helm has been. I also can see us repeating the mistake of re-signing Chelios and letting Quincey walk. While I am not a fan of having given up a 1st round pick to acquire Quincey he should have never been waived. We are setting ourselves up for the same mistake with Cleary IMO.
The mistake was keeping Lebda, not Chelios. Chelios was better in every aspect than Lebda, and both Meech and Quincey were better defensemen with higher upside than Lebda, but simply hadn't gotten a chance. Lebda should have been the defenseman waived. Said it then, and have maintained the position ever since (and will do so forever, as you well know ).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gobo View Post
What would it take for the Oilers to get Andersson?

Could we do a larger deal (pending we sign Grabo) like Gagner for Andersson + Abdelkaker + Miller? Too much?
Gagner just came off of a one-year deal at $3.2m, and scored 38 points in 48 games. He's also a pretty solid defensive player. He's only 23, so depending on the length he could be anywhere from $4m-$5.5m in his cap hit.

But the reason I bring this up is that the Wings are sending back Abdelkader AND Andersson, plus you're asking for our #1 PK forward in Miller. I would say that instead of Miller, Edmonton can have Tootoo/Eaves instead.

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Originally Posted by landskronala View Post
we dont need gagner. just signed weiss. mps for andersson + miller?
Gagner would be an excellent acquisition; he's a skilled young #1 center with two-way ability. Even if he never develops "elite" level skill (remember, he's about the same age Hank and Pavs were when they entered the league) he still is a solid piece to build around with the other guys and getting him for Abs/Andersson/Miller (or replacing Miller with Tootoo/Eaves, as I said earlier) is an absolute no-brainer. Gagner plays a game that's not terribly dissimilar from Cory Emmerton's in style. Except for one thing; think of how well Emmerton would do if you put him in the AHL this coming season (he wouldn't clear waivers, but just hypothesize). Now think of that as an NHL player. That's Sam Gagner. Defensively responsible, good playmaker, ok shot, smart player, good skater. He's what Cory Emmerton would be if he suddenly became twice as productive offensively.

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07-12-2013, 04:29 PM
  #243
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Originally Posted by rt View Post
I didn't see a better spot for this. If there is one, please feel free to move it.

Anyhow, it appears the log-jam on the blue line in Phoenix has materialized a season sooner than I expected (or would have liked).

We've got way too many guys on one-way contracts (or deserving of one-way contracts).

David Rundblad is currently without a deal, and I really can't see him accepting a two-way. Having already signed Stone and Summers to one-way deals this summer, I'm guessing he's the odd man out. This is fairly shocking to me as I consider him second only to Gormley in terms of blue line prospects. I'd rank him ahead of every other kid in the system.

Does Detroit have any room for him on the NHL roster, or are you all full up? I was thinking that with all of the forward prospects you guys have in the system there might be a fit. However, I'm not totally clear on the blue line situation up in Detroit.

Thoughts?
If he accepts a one-way deal, he can be assigned to the AHL and will still make his full NHL salary. If money is his concern, then he shouldn't give a **** about AHL/NHL for the upcoming season. If playing in the NHL is his concern, then he'd better get to work proving he can actually play DEFENSE.

As far as Detroit's NHL roster, we can move Dan Dekeyser down without clearing waivers, and Brian Lashoff would almost certainly clear (not that most Wings fans would care if he was claimed).

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07-12-2013, 04:31 PM
  #244
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
The mistake was keeping Lebda, not Chelios. Chelios was better in every aspect than Lebda, and both Meech and Quincey were better defensemen with higher upside than Lebda, but simply hadn't gotten a chance. Lebda should have been the defenseman waived. Said it then, and have maintained the position ever since (and will do so forever, as you well know ).



Gagner just came off of a one-year deal at $3.2m, and scored 38 points in 48 games. He's also a pretty solid defensive player. He's only 23, so depending on the length he could be anywhere from $4m-$5.5m in his cap hit.

But the reason I bring this up is that the Wings are sending back Abdelkader AND Andersson, plus you're asking for our #1 PK forward in Miller. I would say that instead of Miller, Edmonton can have Tootoo/Eaves instead.



Gagner would be an excellent acquisition; he's a skilled young #1 center with two-way ability. Even if he never develops "elite" level skill (remember, he's about the same age Hank and Pavs were when they entered the league) he still is a solid piece to build around with the other guys and getting him for Abs/Andersson/Miller (or replacing Miller with Tootoo/Eaves, as I said earlier) is an absolute no-brainer. Gagner plays a game that's not terribly dissimilar from Cory Emmerton's in style. Except for one thing; think of how well Emmerton would do if you put him in the AHL this coming season (he wouldn't clear waivers, but just hypothesize). Now think of that as an NHL player. That's Sam Gagner. Defensively responsible, good playmaker, ok shot, smart player, good skater. He's what Cory Emmerton would be if he suddenly became twice as productive offensively.
Gagner would be awesome. I'd move Andersson++ for him. With Jarnkrok coming up I'll be a lot less worried about the future at center. You don't need elite center depth to be a contender (there really isn't a checklist), but having Pav, Z, Gagner, Weiss, Jarnkrok on the same team would be freakin' dominate.

It'd be freakin' stupid to pass up a trade for Gagner. He may not be elite as the Edmonton kids, but he is a very good player in his own right and is really young.

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07-12-2013, 04:46 PM
  #245
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Originally Posted by 2MGoBlue2 View Post
Gagner would be awesome. I'd move Andersson++ for him. With Jarnkrok coming up I'll be a lot less worried about the future at center. You don't need elite center depth to be a contender (there really isn't a checklist), but having Pav, Z, Gagner, Weiss, Jarnkrok on the same team would be freakin' dominate.
*dominant

Sorry; that one is a pet peeve.

Also, there is a checklist:

1. Solid offense and defense from centers
2: Solid offense and defense from defensemen
3: Solid goaltending

Only 1986 and 1993 Montreal, 1995 New Jersey, and 2006 Carolina have shirked this checklist. The first three were short on center depth offensively, but still strong defensively down the middle; and Carolina was poor on the blueline, featuring (among others) Cup winning star defensemen Bret Hedican and Frantisek Kaberle...

Physical play and traditional "toughness"? Nice to have, but completely optional. Ridiculous depth on the wings? Definitely helpful, but worthless if your centers are terrible. Calgary the past few years is actually a great example of this; they have had one of the best forward crops in the league but were weak down the middle, in part due to Sutter's misuse of Matt Stajan (top-six two-way center exiled to the third and fourth lines because they needed his faceoff skills on the checking line? Try putting his faceoff skills on a SCORING line and get the damn puck to your plethora of skilled wingers!).

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07-13-2013, 01:13 AM
  #246
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Gagner has zero and i mean zero value to us with the signing of weiss and the emergence of Jarnkrok in the near future.

trading andersson would be just asinine, even if the value is there. You're removing someone for 1-1.2m for someone who likely will get 4-5.5m.. just not logical.

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07-13-2013, 01:23 AM
  #247
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Gagner has zero and i mean zero value to us with the signing of weiss and the emergence of Jarnkrok in the near future.

trading andersson would be just asinine, even if the value is there. You're removing someone for 1-1.2m for someone who likely will get 4-5.5m.. just not logical.
You could say the same for them. No one moves a top six center and asks for Andersson as main piece. They'd be asking for Nyquist, Tatar, Jarnkrok, Jurco, Frk anyone really with top six upside. Then maybe they'd look at Andersson as a second piece.

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07-13-2013, 01:24 AM
  #248
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Originally Posted by zetterberg40 View Post
Gagner has zero and i mean zero value to us with the signing of weiss and the emergence of Jarnkrok in the near future.

trading andersson would be just asinine, even if the value is there. You're removing someone for 1-1.2m for someone who likely will get 4-5.5m.. just not logical.
Let's look at it this way:

Andersson is ~$1m, Gagner is ~$4.5m. Also, Abdelkader is $1.8m and Miller is $1.35m.

So that's $4.15m to Edmonton in three forwards and one $4.5m-$5m center headed to Detroit.

That's a deal you should make every time as the Red Wings.

1) Jarnkrok has no guarantees of being anything more than he is right now.
2) Gagner is a two-way #1C in the NHL right now, today.
3) Gagner is only 23. How likely is it that Jarnkrok will be as good in two years as Gagner is now?

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07-13-2013, 03:29 AM
  #249
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Let's look at it this way:

Andersson is ~$1m, Gagner is ~$4.5m. Also, Abdelkader is $1.8m and Miller is $1.35m.

So that's $4.15m to Edmonton in three forwards and one $4.5m-$5m center headed to Detroit.

That's a deal you should make every time as the Red Wings.

1) Jarnkrok has no guarantees of being anything more than he is right now.
2) Gagner is a two-way #1C in the NHL right now, today.
3) Gagner is only 23. How likely is it that Jarnkrok will be as good in two years as Gagner is now?
Gagner? A Number 1 center? Wut. He is the definition of a 2C.

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07-13-2013, 07:12 AM
  #250
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"I haven't really begun" negotiating, Holland said Friday night after the Development Camp scrimmage at Centre Ice Arena. "I talked with Nyguist's agent Monday or Tuesday. We haven't talked since. I played telephone tag with Andersson's agent.

"If somebody puts in an offer sheet, we'll match."
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