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Are you/do you think you will be happy with the Briere signing?

View Poll Results: Are you happy?
Yes 211 48.96%
No 220 51.04%
Voters: 431. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-09-2013, 02:43 PM
  #201
Galcherock
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post

You are standing too close to the painting and can't see the big picture. Take a step back and think about it for a second from a team perspective. Were we too small before? How does adding another small forward help? What are the implications of this from a wholistic perspective. Don't just think about Briere's stat sheet. Think about what we really needed and what we went out and got.

It really doesn't matter if this guy puts up 50 or 60 points. As a whole, our team is way too small. Adding Briere means we'll be pushed around even more than we've already been. It screws everybody on the team because it's another guy who needs protection when we should be getting a player who could protect those who already need it. 5 small guys on the team just doesn't make any sense whatsoever. And those points would be scored by committee of younger players. Eller, Galchenyuk... give those guys the easy minutes. Eller for sure has earned some. Briere isn't going to add anything to our team, he's just going to take opportunities away from guys who should be getting those points.

And now our younger players are going to be blocked by a guy who isn't part of our future and isn't going to lead us anywhere. He doesn't bring any dimension other than what we already had.

Adding a bigger player to play with our younger guys is what we really needed. Failing that though, we'd have been better off not doing anything at all and just moving Prust up to play with the Gallys.


Know why? Because nobody is big enough or strong enough to go to the net and be effective. Gallagher at least tried. We don't go to the net and it kills us. We are a team of perimeter guys and Briere does nothing to change this. He isn't going to do anything for us here. We needed a big guy to go the net and cause havoc. Briere isn't that kind of player.

Again, stop looking at the spreadsheet. Stop focusing on individual stats and start thinking about what this move does for us as a whole. We already have an offense with tons of guys that can score. Problem is that we're too small. So why go make us smaller?
I understand your POV but Briere will bring a lot of intangibles also such as good veteran leadership, past clutch success and excellent work ethic. Think also that his contract is only an insurance before the guys grow up to take his place...

I would have prefer a Clarkson type also but noone was there at the right price and you don't build a franchise with 20 goal scorers being paid 5+ millions for 5+years. Does'nt cut it.

I respect each and every of your words but I think this will be a great addition for his playmaking skills and his hockey IQ if put in the right spot. I'm just hoping Bergy gets some help by shipping Gionta or DD and replaces it by Prust type players or big skill players.

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Old
07-09-2013, 03:35 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Stop focusing on it being a two year deal. Stop focusing on it being cheap (which it isn't.) It doesn't matter because the guy doesn't help us. THAT's what matters here. He doesn't make us a stronger team he weakens us. So it's two years instead of three... that's like saying you're in great shape because you only cut off your hand instead of your arm.
+1000

I don't get this obsession with 1 or 2 years deals being alright no matter what. The player has to contribute, otherwise he's taking up ice time that could be better used for the development of our future.

A hockey team only has 90 min. of TOI per game for its forward crew. And it's crucial that the Habs use these minutes wisely in the next 2-3 years, IMO.

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07-09-2013, 03:42 PM
  #203
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Wasn't very pleased when I heard about the Briere signing but now that I've had a few days to think about it I'm sorta pissed off.

As many have posted: a soft smurf, does not address the need for grit and size, will siphon power play time from our youngsters, in decline. Looks like MB went for Vinnie and this is the franco-consolation prize, except it appears maybe MB didn't really go for Vinnie?

Anyway IMHO sucks and still sucks but I hope Briere proves me wrong.

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07-09-2013, 03:54 PM
  #204
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
It's not just Briere's point production, but his goals have decreased in each of the last two season. It's also pretty disingenuous to blame playoff losses on Gionta. I didn't know all the team's playoff hopes depended on one single player. Out of Desharnais, Briere and Gionta, I'd take Gionta as he doesn't need soft minutes to produce at the rate he has the last three season which has been pretty consistent.

Briere while he might bring depth, just replaces a problem the team already has...a small uni-dimensional centre who requires soft minutes and offensive players to produce. The team needs to move away from these players, not acquire more of them.

His only saving grace right now is his playoff production because it's the only argument people can put forth right now to show Briere's worth and usefulness to the current club. Aside from that, we're essentially hoping that a 36 year old injury prone forward returns to his production of three years ago.
I think I would actually pay to hear MB honestly respond to this exact post...

Everything you lay out makes such obvious sense that it is really intriguing to me to know either:

- how MB missed it (was he under pressure from above to sign a "big name" French Canadian? Is he just utterly convinced that briere makes us a better playoff team next year? Did therrien push hard for him? ???
Or
- what other element, roster "fit" or otherwise he sees that the rest of us are missing


It could very well work out, but the risk/reward factor seems out of whack from my pov

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Old
07-09-2013, 04:11 PM
  #205
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Happy? Not really. However, he adds to the depth and his contract could have been much worse for the Habs. At this point I've diverted my attention from UFA signings and trades to the prospects, who are the Habs' best hope for finishing in a favorable position.

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07-09-2013, 04:16 PM
  #206
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How about I hope I will be in time but I am not very confident I will ever be?

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07-09-2013, 04:25 PM
  #207
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Originally Posted by Brainiac View Post
+1000

I don't get this obsession with 1 or 2 years deals being alright no matter what. The player has to contribute, otherwise he's taking up ice time that could be better used for the development of our future.

A hockey team only has 90 min. of TOI per game for its forward crew. And it's crucial that the Habs use these minutes wisely in the next 2-3 years, IMO.
Please don't give us a morality lecture or presume to define us. No one is obsessed, so don't exaggerate. Besides, could Briere be worse for the Habs than Gomez, with his much steeper cap hit? If Briere doesn't work out, the coach would make minimal use of him.

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Old
07-09-2013, 05:22 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
Wow
I know, right?! What to do when hockeydb leads you to expect one thing, while those who actually watch the games tell you to expect something else???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galcherock View Post
52 playoffs points in 45 games the last few years says HELLO.
Gomez's 16 points in 17 playoffs games with the Rangers before coming to Montreal says HOW YA DOIN'? But Briere's 0 points in 0 playoff games last year says SO WHAT? But it's not even how many points he can help a line put up (Habs did fine scoring last year, even on the PP), it's whether or not he helps a line score more goals than they allow (which WAS one of the weaknesses of the group, particularly in the playoffs)... which is what most of the doubters are doubting, btw.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galcherock View Post
He could very well have a great season if put in the right spot. Had a bad season last year as some other players cause of the lockout and hard schedule. Negativity is very omnipresent aroud here lately. wow.
On the topic of Briere? Yeah, go figure. Lots of excitement regarding even a minor signing like Fournier, but I guess you choose not to recognize the good when you see it; just the bad.

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Old
07-09-2013, 06:33 PM
  #209
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
Please don't give us a morality lecture or presume to define us. No one is obsessed, so don't exaggerate. Besides, could Briere be worse for the Habs than Gomez, with his much steeper cap hit? If Briere doesn't work out, the coach would make minimal use of him.
Thank you T.

I keep reading how Briere is going to stiffle the development of our young kids. When the truth is, if these young kids EARN the extra TOI, I'm quite sure Briere's TOI will decrease.

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Old
07-09-2013, 06:38 PM
  #210
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Yes it does, he replaces Ryder (or DD or Gionta, we will see). But he definitely replaces someone. Offensive depth is a huge part of what made this team good in the early season. He will provide this.

Bergevin doesn't get a player if it doesn't fill a need. Bergevin is smart, and evaluates the needs better than you.

If he gets 20 goals and 50 points this will be a good sign. By the way, Briere is clutch in the playoffs. Check out his stats.
He'll be dead, or coming out of an ICU, by the playoffs on our team.

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Old
07-09-2013, 08:11 PM
  #211
Brainiac
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
Please don't give us a morality lecture or presume to define us. No one is obsessed, so don't exaggerate. Besides, could Briere be worse for the Habs than Gomez, with his much steeper cap hit? If Briere doesn't work out, the coach would make minimal use of him.
I'm glad YOU made the link between Briere and Gomez.

Remember when our coach made minimal use of Gomez... we finished last in the east.

How do you think the young guys feel when they see an old fart making 3x their salary and not contributing anything?

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07-09-2013, 08:23 PM
  #212
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Desharnais and briere on the same line...

I feel so bad for Carey Price ...

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07-09-2013, 08:32 PM
  #213
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Desharnais and briere on the same line...

I feel so bad for Carey Price ...
Might as well put Gio there to complete that line

I still like this signing, it's DD that needs to be traded

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07-09-2013, 09:01 PM
  #214
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Originally Posted by Habs10Habs View Post
Thank you T.

I keep reading how Briere is going to stiffle the development of our young kids. When the truth is, if these young kids EARN the extra TOI, I'm quite sure Briere's TOI will decrease.
And what exactly has Daniel Briere, Montreal Canadien, earned? He was good 2 or 3 years ago, just got bought out but still got a contract at $4M despite concussions and a 16-point season. Let the Flyers give him his gold watch.

In particular, why should Eller/Galchenyuk not see as much PP time because some has-been just showed up? Briere will have to get preferential linemates and matchups and PP time since he can't do anything else, and Eller/Galchenyuk will lose development opportunities. and I'd rather develop those two, so Mr Briere will have something nice to talk about in 3 years after completing his goal of securing a gig on Antichambre.

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07-09-2013, 09:13 PM
  #215
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Originally Posted by WG View Post
And what exactly has Daniel Briere, Montreal Canadien, earned? He was good 2 or 3 years ago, just got bought out but still got a contract at $4M despite concussions and a 16-point season. Let the Flyers give him his gold watch.

In particular, why should Eller/Galchenyuk not see as much PP time because some has-been just showed up? Briere will have to get preferential linemates and matchups and PP time since he can't do anything else, and Eller/Galchenyuk will lose development opportunities. and I'd rather develop those two, so Mr Briere will have something nice to talk about in 3 years after completing his goal of securing a gig on Antichambre.
Who says he's earned anything? My point was, if the young kids prove that they are ready for more ice time. I'm quite sure our coaching staff will realize this, and react accordingly.

Saying that he is going to stiffle the progress of our young players, or they're going to lose development time is just ridiculous. If they are ready to take on more prominent roles, they will get the chance. In the meantime, we have Briere to fill that role.

If MT decides to keep Briere in a prominent role, when it's obvious he shouldn't be. You should be more worried about our coaching staff than anything else.

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07-09-2013, 09:24 PM
  #216
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
I know, right?! What to do when hockeydb leads you to expect one thing, while those who actually watch the games tell you to expect something else???
You speak as if you were the only one to watch A LOT (!!!!!) of hockey on this board. Get off your high horse. I've watched plenty enough of Briere to know what to expect. And while he's not a first line contributor at this point of his career, he's still a well above-average offensive player, and in a role of secondary scorer, he's still able to get his 50+ points.

Stop acting all high and mighty. I checked your posts history. And your great "judgment/talent evaluation" has lead you to look like a fool more than once. Most notably on the Halak/Price debate.

The ones who hate the signing are the ones who made the mistake of thinking the Briere signing was the signing made to "put us over the top". 4M for 2 years is a small risk deal, and knowing Briere's history, he's more likely than not going to help in the SO, on the PP, AND whenever there's an injury at center, he's able to step up a contribute offensively.

This signing, like it or not, DOES improve us. Not to the point of being a cup contender. No. In fact, no available player this summer would've done this. And most of the "best of the crop" would've required us handcuffing ourselves for 5-7 years.


Last edited by HiggsBozon: 07-09-2013 at 09:34 PM.
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07-09-2013, 09:34 PM
  #217
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Originally Posted by Habs10Habs View Post
Thank you T.

I keep reading how Briere is going to stiffle the development of our young kids. When the truth is, if these young kids EARN the extra TOI, I'm quite sure Briere's TOI will decrease.
We've seen it happen before. Who the hell knows what the coach is going to do? Even this year we would watch the game and see Galchenyuk get benched. No idea why... but that's what happened. Hell, look at PK's icetime this year.

So I'm not as convinced as you are. And again, totally redundant move.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Desharnais and briere on the same line...

I feel so bad for Carey Price ...
I don't want to open up a can of worms on Price but seriously... we've done everything we can to make him fail. And if we don't get at least a shutdown guy for the D, it's going to be a long painful year for him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
The ones who hate the signing are the ones who made the mistake of thinking the Briere signing was the signing made to "put us over the top". 4M for 2 years is a small risk deal, and knowing Briere's history, he's more likely than not going to help in the SO, on the PP, AND whenever there's an injury at center, he's able to step up a contribute offensively.

This signing, like it or not, DOES improve us. Not to the point of being a cup contender. No. In fact, no available player this summer would've done this. And most of the "best of the crop" would've required us handcuffing ourselves for 5-7 years.
WTF are you talking about?

Not only does he not "put us over the top" he puts us further away. That's what people are upset about. He's not a stopgap for anything. Get this silly notion out of your head. A stopgap would be an older power forward like Morrow. If MB can pull that off, the move actually makes some sense. But Briere? No reason to do this at all.

It does NOT improve us at all. It makes us even more vulnerable than we were before and we took a glaring weakness and made it worse. He does nothing for us that we didn't already have too much of.


Last edited by Lafleurs Guy: 07-09-2013 at 09:40 PM.
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07-09-2013, 09:37 PM
  #218
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Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
You speak as if you were the only one to watch A LOT (!!!!!) of hockey on this board. Get off your high horse. I've watched plenty enough of Briere to know what to expect. And while he's not a first line contributor at this point of his career, he's still a well above-average offensive player, and in a role of secondary scorer, he's still able to get his 50+ points.

Stop acting all high and mighty. I checked your posts history. And your great "judgment/talent evaluation" has lead you to look like a fool more than once. Most notably on the Halak/Price debate.

The ones who hate the signing are the ones who made the mistake of thinking the Briere signing was the signing made to "put us over the top". 4M for 2 years is a small risk deal, and knowing Briere's history, he's more likely than not going to help in the SO, on the PP, AND whenever there's an injury at center, he's able to step up a contribute offensively.

This signing, like it or not, DOES improve us. Not to the point of being a cup contender. No. In fact, no available player this summer would've done this. And most of the "best of the crop" would've required us handcuffing ourselves for 5-7 years.
Nobody has a perfect track record on this site.

But the arguments against Briere are quite strong.

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07-09-2013, 09:40 PM
  #219
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more time passes and the more ridiculous UFA contracts are signed i'm ok with this. I think he shows up motivated and ready and has a good year. he'll play top 9 center wing and get some pp mins and will be good for the kids.

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07-09-2013, 09:45 PM
  #220
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We've seen it happen before. Who the hell knows what the coach is going to do? Even this year we would watch the game and see Galchenyuk get benched. No idea why... but that's what happened. Hell, look at PK's icetime this year.

So I'm not as convinced as you are. And again, totally redundant move.
Haha, I can't disagree LG, but if that's the case again here. It's the coaching staff that has to be blamed, for not being able to balance their line ups accordingly.

Also most young players get benched from time to time. I remember Slats benching Gretzky a few times during his first few seasons in Edmonton. Our very own PK rode the pine a little as well. So seeing Galchenyuk or Eller riding the bench from time to time is not the end of the world IMO.

Please don't think I'm jumping for joy over the addition of Briere. I just don't feel the signing is as bad as some think.

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07-09-2013, 09:45 PM
  #221
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Nobody has a perfect track record on this site.

But the arguments against Briere are quite strong.
Such as these arguments?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
By the way when Gomez was acquired, people were excited by the misleading statistic that he was point per game in the playoffs in his career.
- Gomez being acquired and people excited he was point per game in the playoffs. 114 games, 81 points before he joined MTL. At 0.71 points per game I think you picked the perfect word "misleading".

- You also mentioned "fluery" as the reason for Briere's playoff success in 2011-12, he played 6 games vs him, 8 points. He had 5 games against New Jersey, 5 points.

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07-09-2013, 10:01 PM
  #222
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Such as these arguments?



- Gomez being acquired and people excited he was point per game in the playoffs. 114 games, 81 points before he joined MTL. At 0.71 points per game I think you picked the perfect word "misleading".

- You also mentioned "fluery" as the reason for Briere's playoff success in 2011-12, he played 6 games vs him, 8 points. He had 5 games against New Jersey, 5 points.
People keep coming back to this "playoff beast Daniel Briere, or PBDB (TM)" and hold onto it like some kind of talisman. I don't care about Briere's playoff history because it's just that. Guy Lafleur has good playoff numbers, maybe we should sign him too. And the 'playoff beast' people have yet to account for the facts that a) more recent history suggests that PBDB may not be the guy we're getting but rather a shadow of that guy and b) PBDB is so poor defensively he might actually hurt the team even if he is close to PPG.

We had Cammy. Everybody wanted him gone for a 6-pack of Bud Light Lime and now people are cartwheeling over the acquisition of a worse Cammy. I do not understand at all.

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07-09-2013, 10:04 PM
  #223
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I voted no, up until one of Desharnais or Gionta is traded.

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07-09-2013, 10:07 PM
  #224
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Originally Posted by Habs10Habs View Post
Haha, I can't disagree LG, but if that's the case again here. It's the coaching staff that has to be blamed, for not being able to balance their line ups accordingly.

Also most young players get benched from time to time. I remember Slats benching Gretzky a few times during his first few seasons in Edmonton. Our very own PK rode the pine a little as well. So seeing Galchenyuk or Eller riding the bench from time to time is not the end of the world IMO.

Please don't think I'm jumping for joy over the addition of Briere. I just don't feel the signing is as bad as some think.
Don't you think that at least Eller did enough to warrant first shot though? I mean the guy grew by leaps and bounds last year. And if he does warrant this, then what do we do with Briere?

Even if I accepted your argument about this not hurting our youth (which I don't) I still don't see how this signing is good for our team.

I think people who like the signing are looking at things in a vacuum and saying to themselves that we've added another scorer to our lineup - so it must be good. They don't think about the lack of space that our smaller players already face in the playoffs. They don't think about how we have nobody who goes to the net. THAT was what we really needed. Lshap made a great analogy in the other thread that if we were a football team we'd be all receivers and no linebackers. That's kind of how I feel. No balance on this team whatsoever now. It was bad before and now MB has somehow managed to make it worse. It's not so bad in the regular season but in the playoffs you have to go to the net if you want to win. We don't do this. And even worse, other teams do it to us all the time because we don't have the crease clearing warriors that other teams do.

That's what really kills us.

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07-09-2013, 10:15 PM
  #225
DAChampion
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Originally Posted by danisonfire View Post
Such as these arguments?



- Gomez being acquired and people excited he was point per game in the playoffs. 114 games, 81 points before he joined MTL. At 0.71 points per game I think you picked the perfect word "misleading".

- You also mentioned "fluery" as the reason for Briere's playoff success in 2011-12, he played 6 games vs him, 8 points. He had 5 games against New Jersey, 5 points.
I was a little off about the numbers, mea culpa, but not so much that the argument loses validity.

The bottom line is that playoff performance is irrelevant. You can't take the cumulative performance of a player over the past decade, that doesn't make any sense. Players evolve, they mature and grow older, they accumulate concussions and experience, and those factors compete. Would I want the Briere of 2005 on a 2-year, 8 million dollar contract? Yes. Are we getting that player? No, we're getting a completely different player. Same with Gomez, we didn't get the Gomez of old. We didn't get the Gomez who had 45 points in 42 playoff games in the five seasons prior to being traded to Montreal.

And yes, Briere benefited from playing against Fleury. The fact he then did well against New Jersey serves to demonstrate only one thing: your ignorance of statistics. 5 points in 5 games is statistically insignificant.

We need to analyze Briere as he is. He is a smurf who is good offensively but terrible defensively, kind of like Desharnais and Gallagher, and thus he is redundant. His primary distinction from Desharnais and Gallagher is that he is more expensive, older, and has had more concussions.

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