HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Islanders
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Poulin Accepts QO

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-08-2013, 04:41 PM
  #26
InformTheMasses
Registered User
 
InformTheMasses's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,772
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffNYI View Post
This isn't Poulin's ELC?
I understand, but he signed his ELC when he was that age. and played his first professional season 2010-11 (10 games) when he was 21. That season should count as his first waiver exempt season.... followed by three additional waiver exempt seasons (11-12, 12-13, 13-14)

InformTheMasses is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2013, 04:42 PM
  #27
JeffNYI
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,482
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformTheMasses View Post
I understand, but he signed his ELC when he was that age. and played his first professional season 2010-11 (10 games) when he was 21. That season should count as his first waiver exempt season.... followed by three additional waiver exempt seasons (11-12, 12-13, 13-14)
Yeah but that's only for players who are in their ELC.

This contract Poulin is signing is not his ELC.

JeffNYI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2013, 04:47 PM
  #28
JeffNYI
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,482
vCash: 500
Looking at the language.. they use terms: skater, goalie when there's a difference.. or the term "player" to when they mean any player regardless of position..

For purposes of Regular Waivers, the six (6) year exemption for an 18 year old
goalie and the five (5) year exemption for a 19 year old goalie shall both be reduced to four (4) years commencing the first season that the 18 or 19 year old goalie plays in eleven (11) NHL Games or more. The next three (3) seasons, regardless of whether the goalie plays any NHL Games in any of those three (3) seasons, shall count as the next three (3) years toward satisfying the exemption.

The first season in which a Player who is age 20 or older plays in one (1) or more
Professional Games shall constitute the first year for calculating the number of years he is exempt from Regular Waivers.


I think after 3 seasons once you play in a game, you're eligible..

Snow and Staple got it right, the way I read it.

JeffNYI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2013, 04:48 PM
  #29
InformTheMasses
Registered User
 
InformTheMasses's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,772
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffNYI View Post
Yeah but that's only for players who are in their ELC.

This contract Poulin is signing is not his ELC.
It doesn't work that way. Your ELC only matters as a way to gauge future waiver exempt seasons at the time you sign it. You do not have to remain on an ELC for the duration to remain exempt.

This probably is not making much sense at this point.

InformTheMasses is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2013, 04:56 PM
  #30
JeffNYI
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,482
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformTheMasses View Post
It doesn't work that way. Your ELC only matters as a way to gauge future waiver exempt seasons at the time you sign it. You do not have to remain on an ELC for the duration to remain exempt.

This probably is not making much sense at this point.
Quit making me work.

I read through Article 9, which describes the "Entry Level System".. because of Poulin's age, and when he signed his ELC, he is NO LONGER part of the Entry Level System.

This qualifying offer and subsoquent contract as a result of accepting it is a Standard Player Contract.. Entry Level System rules do not apply to Kevin Poulin going forward.

Disclaimer: Again, at least the way I read it..

JeffNYI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2013, 05:08 PM
  #31
InformTheMasses
Registered User
 
InformTheMasses's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,772
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffNYI View Post
Quit making me work.

I read through Article 9, which describes the "Entry Level System".. because of Poulin's age, and when he signed his ELC, he is NO LONGER part of the Entry Level System.

This qualifying offer and subsoquent contract as a result of accepting it is a Standard Player Contract.. Entry Level System rules do not apply to Kevin Poulin going forward.

Disclaimer: Again, at least the way I read it..
This does seem to make sense.

What doesn't make sense? How can a Goalie be exempt for 4 or more years if their maximum Entry level System period is 3 years. These two things seem to contradict each other.

InformTheMasses is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2013, 05:09 PM
  #32
Mr Wentworth
Arch Duke of Raleigh
 
Mr Wentworth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 4,928
vCash: 500
I know this thread is about KP, but Nilsson...anyone think the Isles are banking on him to be the starter and are keeping him in the minors/seasoning him and not rush him?

Mr Wentworth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2013, 05:16 PM
  #33
JeffNYI
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,482
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformTheMasses View Post
This does seem to make sense.

What doesn't make sense? How can a Goalie be exempt for 4 or more years if their maximum Entry level System period is 3 years.
All of these assume the player never meets the threshold of minimum games played to become automatically eligible:

18 year old goalie who plays 10 NHL games or less, 6 years of exemption

18 year old goalie who plays 11 NHL games or more, 4 more years of exemption

19 year old goalie who plays 10 NHL games or less, 5 years of exemption

19 year old goalie who plays 11 NHL games or more, 4 more years of exemption

20 year old goalie who plays their first pro game, 3 years of exemption (KP is in this)

If an 18-20 year old goalie plays 80 NHL Games, they are automatically waiver eligible regardless of age... if a 21+ year old goalie plays in 60 NHL games, they are automatically waiver eligible regardless of age.

KP is waiver eligible because the clock started ticking for him 2010-11, not because of NHL Games played.

JeffNYI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2013, 05:46 PM
  #34
Chapin Landvogt
Hockey's Future Staff
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Germany
Posts: 12,266
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Wentworth View Post
I know this thread is about KP, but Nilsson...anyone think the Isles are banking on him to be the starter and are keeping him in the minors/seasoning him and not rush him?
It is felt by many that Nilsson may very well be the best goaltending prospect in the system. After a lost year, he should be getting regular playing time and the bulk of the duties in Bridgeport.


Last edited by Chapin Landvogt: 07-08-2013 at 06:56 PM.
Chapin Landvogt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2013, 08:42 PM
  #35
Mr Wentworth
Arch Duke of Raleigh
 
Mr Wentworth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 4,928
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post
It is felt by many that Nilsson may very well be the best goaltending prospect in the system. After a lost year, he should be getting regular playing time and the bulk of the duties in Bridgeport.
And then the 14-15 season, step up and be the starter?

Fingers crossed.

Mr Wentworth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2013, 08:58 PM
  #36
rikker
Registered User
 
rikker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Niagara
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,255
vCash: 500
question (i really suck at all this technical crap): Poulin can start in the AHL, without going through waivers, right?

rikker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2013, 09:23 PM
  #37
Beastrt
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 290
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by rikker View Post
question (i really suck at all this technical crap): Poulin can start in the AHL, without going through waivers, right?
No, the team seems to think he can't. We just can't seem to figure out why based on the CBA

Beastrt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2013, 09:49 PM
  #38
JeffNYI
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,482
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beastrt View Post
No, the team seems to think he can't. We just can't seem to figure out why based on the CBA
Let's try this another way..

Kevin Poulin signed his Entry Level Contract in May 2010 when he was 20 years old.

He then played in a professional hockey game in the 2010-11 season (he actually played in 25 pro games, but it doesn't matter - he just needed to play in 1) as a 20 year old.

Once he played in one professional game in 2010-11 as a 20 year old, it made him exempt from waivers for three seasons:

2010-11
2011-12
2012-13

He was therefore going to remain exempt until the 2013-14 season, OR until he played 60 NHL games -- whichever came first.

The 2013-14 season came first. He is now eligible for waivers.

JeffNYI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2013, 10:43 PM
  #39
Beastrt
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 290
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffNYI View Post
Let's try this another way..

Kevin Poulin signed his Entry Level Contract in May 2010 when he was 20 years old.

He then played in a professional hockey game in the 2010-11 season (he actually played in 25 pro games, but it doesn't matter - he just needed to play in 1) as a 20 year old.

Once he played in one professional game in 2010-11 as a 20 year old, it made him exempt from waivers for three seasons:

2010-11
2011-12
2012-13

He was therefore going to remain exempt until the 2013-14 season, OR until he played 60 NHL games -- whichever came first.

The 2013-14 season came first. He is now eligible for waivers.
Still confusing but the fact is the islanders have most likely checked this with the league, so you have to be right. I just don't get when the chart says after 80 nhl games or 4 yrs which hasn't happened yet.

http://www.mcsorleys-stick.com/nhl-w...les-explained/

Beastrt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2013, 11:00 PM
  #40
JeffNYI
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,482
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beastrt View Post
Still confusing but the fact is the islanders have most likely checked this with the league, so you have to be right. I just don't get when the chart says after 80 nhl games or 4 yrs which hasn't happened yet.

http://www.mcsorleys-stick.com/nhl-w...les-explained/

Ahhhhh.. I see why everyone is confused.. because it's confusing..

To begin, notice how they used the terms PLAYERS, SKATERS, and GOALIES.

From Article 1: "Player(s)" means a hockey player who is party to an SPC, a Rookie, Unsigned Draft Choices, and Free Agents

So the term PLAYERS has been defined and means GOALIES and SKATERS combined..

Okay so if you look at that chart it says that GOALIES should be exempt for FOUR years, not three.. and I believe that had Poulin played in ZERO professional games in 2010-11 that would be the case.. he would not be eligible for four years.. but because he played in at least ONE professional game in 2010-11, then Article 13.4c kicked in, which says:

A 20 year old Player who plays in one or more Professional Games in the 2013- 14 season will be exempt from Regular Waivers as follows:

Season Regular Waivers

13-14 Exempt
14-15 Exempt
15-16 Exempt
16-17 Eligible


Notice the word PLAYER, not goalie. Not skater. You have to refer back to Article 1 and thus a goalie is clearly included within the definition of PLAYER.

(Note that the 2005 CBA is outlined the same way, except it shows 2005-06 through 2007-08 as the Exempt years, so it was not a change in the CBA)

So to recap: Had KP not played in a pro game as a 20 year old, I think he'd be Exempt. But because he did play, the 13.4c illustration kicks in which clearly uses the term PLAYER and not SKATER..

Disclaimer: If I'm wrong I'm wrong but that's how I see it..

JeffNYI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2013, 11:13 PM
  #41
JeffNYI
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,482
vCash: 500
You'll notice that Anders Nilsson didn't sign his NHL contract until he was 21..

So despite the fact he's less than 1 month in age difference from Kevin Poulin, Nilsson is STILL EXEMPT from waivers for 2013-14.. but will be eligible in 2014-15..

Nilsson was playing what's considered "Professional games" under the CBA as a 20 year old as well, but because he didn't sign his contract until 2011 his exemptions are all pushed back a year compared to KP's..

Had Nilsson signed it in 2010 like KP did, and then went back to Europe - he'd be eligible for waivers this year too even though he didn't play in Bridgeport..

The Islanders may have staggered the contracts a year apart to avoid this.

JeffNYI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-09-2013, 12:03 AM
  #42
SLAPSHOT723
Moderator
Officer Clutterbuck
 
SLAPSHOT723's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Long Island
Posts: 16,614
vCash: 500
Just as a reference, not sure if it really matters that much, but Corey Crawford was waived during the young part of his NHL career. I'm Crawford's biggest critic, but it's something that young goalies can overcome if they clear.

Let's just hope it doesn't get to that point, of course.

SLAPSHOT723 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-09-2013, 08:18 PM
  #43
SouthShore91
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Bay Shore, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 222
vCash: 500
Staple finally confirmed what apparently everyone already knew. Poulin does NOT need to clear waivers

SouthShore91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-09-2013, 08:28 PM
  #44
Macch
Registered User
 
Macch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,608
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthShore91 View Post
Staple finally confirmed what apparently everyone already knew. Poulin does NOT need to clear waivers

About time. This changes everything.

Macch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-09-2013, 08:58 PM
  #45
InformTheMasses
Registered User
 
InformTheMasses's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,772
vCash: 500
Glad to see he finally did some work instead of the typical phone call to whomever and regurgitating with the standard 'The team says'.

I know the CBA is tricky and worded in legalese. I am no lawyer, but I certainly did not read the CBA the same way Jeff did. I doubt Staple read the CBA just got the info from a bad source. At least he apologized.

I still expect Poulin to be the back-up unless another goaltender with experience is brought in.

Nilsson whom I think is the better goaltender, needs a lot of work and should be the #1 goalie in Bridgeport all season.

InformTheMasses is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-09-2013, 09:02 PM
  #46
IslesRock4
Global Moderator
Fantasy Hockey Talk
 
IslesRock4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Long Island
Country: United States
Posts: 20,622
vCash: 500
At least this gives a fairer shot to Nilsson in camp. But I agree, Nilsson should be the guy playing a bunch of games in BPT. He's the better prospect.

__________________

IslesRock4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-09-2013, 11:11 PM
  #47
JeffNYI
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,482
vCash: 500
I went back and read it again.. You know, being wrong and all.. motivated me like it would anyone..

The way they define what a "Player" is in Article 1, and the illustration and verbiage in Article 13.4c in both the 2005 and 2012 CBAs ... Even now I still think it's crystal clear..

But, maybe Newsday's lawyers or the NHLPA or the Islanders themselves told Staple what was up..

Sorry all.

JeffNYI is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:24 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.