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Old
07-09-2013, 08:18 PM
  #201
Kurtosis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DisgruntledHawkFan View Post
The Bickell contract flies in the face of that thinking.
Yeah it does. In my opinion players should be paid with both past results AND expectations in mind. The team is missing half the picture if it doesn't.

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07-09-2013, 08:22 PM
  #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DisgruntledHawkFan View Post
For the umpteenth time, Frolik was paid that money with the expectation of being a top 6 guy.
That's a bunch of baloney, since Frolik was on the third line in playoffs against the Vancouver Canucks with Bickell and Bolland.

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07-09-2013, 08:25 PM
  #203
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Originally Posted by DisgruntledHawkFan View Post
The Bickell contract flies in the face of that thinking.
That depends if Bickell next season will be on the first line with Toews and Kane or on the third line with Shaw and Morin/Hayes/Smith.

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07-09-2013, 08:30 PM
  #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLarmer28 View Post
That depends if Bickell next season will be on the first line with Toews and Kane or on the third line with Shaw and Morin/Hayes/Smith.
If you don't pay fourth liners 2.3 you don't pay third liners 4 million.

And yes, Frolik was absolutely expected to play a scoring role for us. On my phone but I'll find proof when I get home if I must.

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07-09-2013, 08:31 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
maybe he is more than a 4th liner and wants a bigger role on the roster? Maybe he wants to be more of an offensiv guy paired with D than just a D forward?

out of the C prospects you listed, not even 1 is on the same level as Krüger is YET
It's hard to tell what level they'd be at on the NHL level or whether they'd be able to replace Kruger. If he's asking too much then let him sit (or trade him), see how the young guys do in training camp, play whoever seems ready - and if no one is ready then go sign an aging vet (you know how Q loves those guys) to fill or share the role.

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07-09-2013, 08:39 PM
  #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DisgruntledHawkFan View Post
If you don't pay fourth liners 2.3 you don't pay third liners 4 million.

And yes, Frolik was absolutely expected to play a scoring role for us. On my phone but I'll find proof when I get home if I must.
During the 2011-12 NHL Season, Frolik was also on the third line with Bolland and Bickell. Furthermore, both Bickell and Frolik were benched at times during the regular season in favor of Hayes and Shaw. Frolik was benched at the start of the 2011-12 NHL Playoffs in favor of Shaw as the third line right winger. Only until Shaw was suspended for running into goaltender Mike Smith in the Phoenix Coyotes playoff series was Michael Frolik reinserted into the third line right wing role.

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07-09-2013, 08:41 PM
  #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DisgruntledHawkFan View Post
If you don't pay fourth liners 2.3 you don't pay third liners 4 million.

And yes, Frolik was absolutely expected to play a scoring role for us. On my phone but I'll find proof when I get home if I must.
Who is to say that Bickell won't be the first line left winger next season? Are you coach Q?

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07-09-2013, 08:42 PM
  #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLarmer28 View Post
During the 2011-12 NHL Season, Frolik was also on the third line with Bolland and Bickell. Furthermore, both Bickell and Frolik were benched at times during the regular season in favor of Hayes and Shaw. Frolik was benched at the start of the 2011-12 NHL Playoffs in favor of Shaw as the third line right winger. Only until Shaw was suspended for running into goaltender Mike Smith in the Phoenix Coyotes playoff series was Michael Frolik reinserted into the third line right wing role.
Frolik was signed before the 2011 season right?

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07-09-2013, 08:43 PM
  #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLarmer28 View Post
Who is to say that Bickell won't be the first line left winger next season? Are you coach Q?
I'm also curious who said Bickell won't be on the top line, considering I never said it.

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07-09-2013, 08:49 PM
  #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DisgruntledHawkFan View Post
Frolik was signed before the 2011 season right?
Frolik was signed in summer of 2011 after a decent playoffs against VC. Didn't work out until his role was reduced. He couldn't score a goal to save his life the next season.

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07-09-2013, 08:49 PM
  #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swanny View Post
That was the mistake. You pay for what they are....not on expectations or projections. Hope he learned his lesson.
It speaks volumes that the Chicago Blackhawks organization would rather finalize a contract to a veteran backup goaltender than a fourth line center.

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07-09-2013, 08:52 PM
  #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DisgruntledHawkFan View Post
Frolik was signed before the 2011 season right?
What does that have to do where Frolik was slotted during the 2010-11 NHL Playoffs?

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07-09-2013, 08:54 PM
  #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HawksFan74 View Post
Frolik was signed in summer of 2011 after a decent playoffs against VC. Didn't work out until his role was reduced. He couldn't score a goal to save his life the next season.
Frolik went from third line right winger during the 2011-12 NHL Season to fourth line right winger during the 2012-13 NHL Season.

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07-09-2013, 08:56 PM
  #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLarmer28 View Post
Frolik went from third line right winger during the 2011-12 NHL Season to fourth line right winger during the 2012-13 NHL Season.
Frolik saw some time in the top 6, he just sucked.

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07-09-2013, 09:01 PM
  #215
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Originally Posted by HawksFan74 View Post
Frolik saw some time in the top 6, he just sucked.
At least the Patrick Kane to center experiment finally ended.

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07-09-2013, 11:44 PM
  #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLarmer28 View Post
What does that have to do where Frolik was slotted during the 2010-11 NHL Playoffs?
Nothing, which is weird because you are the only one talking about it. Frolik was supposed to be a supporting piece in our top six going into the 2011-2012 season. That's why he was paid what he was paid.

It didn't work out as planned, but Bowman certainly didn't sign Frolik to be a 4th line Pk ace.

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07-09-2013, 11:55 PM
  #217
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Why are guys wondering who will be where. And make some suggestions on the lines.

Sharp- Toews- Hossa

Bickell- Handzus- Kane

Saad- Pirri- Shaw

Carcillo- Kruger- Smith

Extra: Bollig, Hayes,

D:

Keith- Seabrook

Leddy- Hjalmarsson

Oduya- Rozsival

G:

Crawford
=
Khabibulin

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07-10-2013, 12:06 AM
  #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrindNMuck View Post
Why are guys wondering who will be where. And make some suggestions on the lines.

Sharp- Toews- Hossa

Bickell- Handzus- Kane

Saad- Pirri- Shaw

Carcillo- Kruger- Smith

Extra: Bollig, Hayes,

D:

Keith- Seabrook

Leddy- Hjalmarsson

Oduya- Rozsival

G:

Crawford
=
Khabibulin
Would rather see something like

Bickell - Toews - Kane
Sharp - Pirri - Hossa
Saad - Kruger - Shaw
Morin - Handzus - Smith

Bollig, Carcillo

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07-10-2013, 12:13 AM
  #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuzy View Post
Would rather see something like

Bickell - Toews - Kane
Sharp - Pirri - Hossa
Saad - Kruger - Shaw
Morin - Handzus - Smith

Bollig, Carcillo
I don't see Morin coming straight in the NHL next season. Maybe he will play a few games in Rockford and get a call up. And i think Toews has better chemistry with Hossa.

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07-10-2013, 12:21 AM
  #220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrindNMuck View Post
I don't see Morin coming straight in the NHL next season. Maybe he will play a few games in Rockford and get a call up. And i think Toews has better chemistry with Hossa.
No two fowards on the roster play better together than Toews and Kane.

Morin's in a group of several prospects who will battle to make the team out of camp next season. If he's better than them (Smith, Hayes, etc.), he'll be in the lineup for opening night.

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07-10-2013, 12:31 AM
  #221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuzy View Post
Would rather see something like

Bickell - Toews - Kane
Sharp - Pirri - Hossa
Saad - Kruger - Shaw
Morin - Handzus - Smith

Bollig, Carcillo
For the regular season, the Chicago Blackhawks will most likely ice an enforcer (team cop) on the fourth line:

Bickell - Toews - Kane
Sharp - Pirri - Hossa
Saad - Shaw - Morin
Bollig/Carcillo - Kruger - Smith
Handzus

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Old
07-10-2013, 12:45 AM
  #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DisgruntledHawkFan View Post
Nothing, which is weird because you are the only one talking about it. Frolik was supposed to be a supporting piece in our top six going into the 2011-2012 season. That's why he was paid what he was paid.

It didn't work out as planned, but Bowman certainly didn't sign Frolik to be a 4th line Pk ace.
I don't know how anyone can say Disgruntled is wrong on this.

No matter how Frolik ended up, Bowman wasn't envisioning that when he handed him his contract. It worked out differently...but Bowman didn't make an active choice at the time to overpay a 4th liner.

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Old
07-10-2013, 01:01 AM
  #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrindNMuck View Post
Why are guys wondering who will be where. And make some suggestions on the lines.

Sharp- Toews- Hossa

Bickell- Handzus- Kane

Saad- Pirri- Shaw

Carcillo- Kruger- Smith

Extra: Bollig, Hayes,

D:

Keith- Seabrook

Leddy- Hjalmarsson

Oduya- Rozsival

G:

Crawford
=
Khabibulin
Keep Toews and Kane on the same line together, making babies happen, and Blues fans dreams die

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Old
07-10-2013, 01:38 AM
  #224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IU Hawks fan View Post
He had his chance at an offensive role and was awful. He played a defensive role and look how that turned out.

Who cares what he wants to play?
that was like 1 1/2 years ago... you know that this is a lot of time in development for young players.

I'm pretty sure he cares about his role going forward. Pretty sure they are talking about the role too. Think the talks are between 1.2 and 1.7

Quote:
Originally Posted by swanny View Post
That was the mistake. You pay for what they are....not on expectations or projections. Hope he learned his lesson.
you pay for what will happen in the future - based on what you have done before.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SLarmer28 View Post
It speaks volumes that the Chicago Blackhawks organization would rather finalize a contract to a veteran backup goaltender than a fourth line center.
You know a difference between UFA and RFA, don't you?

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Old
07-10-2013, 07:01 AM
  #225
Marotte Marauder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DisgruntledHawkFan View Post
Nothing, which is weird because you are the only one talking about it. Frolik was supposed to be a supporting piece in our top six going into the 2011-2012 season. That's why he was paid what he was paid.

It didn't work out as planned, but Bowman certainly didn't sign Frolik to be a 4th line Pk ace.
Quote:
Originally Posted by UsernameWasTaken View Post
I don't know how anyone can say Disgruntled is wrong on this.

No matter how Frolik ended up, Bowman wasn't envisioning that when he handed him his contract. It worked out differently...but Bowman didn't make an active choice at the time to overpay a 4th liner.
The problem is that some had more accurate assessments of Frolik and knew he wasn't going to be top 6 before the deal was inked. That was the mistake Stan made, overestimating Frolik's ability.

Not a disaster, just a mistake.

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