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Old
07-09-2013, 01:55 PM
  #1
murdock1116
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Question from Sharks Land

Hey Blues Fans,

Hope your offseason is going well!

We over in Sharks land were having healthy debate about our roster and one of the continued topics that comes up is trading guys like Thornton, Marleau and Boyle. Obviously they have been staples for us for a long time now and the team has been competitive for the last decade.

A lot of us feel like we're sort of the modern era, "Pre Lockout Blues;" consecutive playoff appearances, stanley cup hopefuls, superstar players, but not championship to show for it

My question to Blues fans is now that you guys can look back in hindsight, would you say that all the consecutive playoffs were worth it?

Was there a point back then when you guys should have tanked it and sold off your stars? Maybe that would have brought you a cup sooner? Or did you guys like the "refresh/retool" approach from one season to the next.

I would love to hear your guys thoughts on the matter.

Thanks in advance!

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07-09-2013, 02:03 PM
  #2
SteenMachine
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Getting rid of talent to keep Tkachuk and Weight was pretty much what ruined it. You know they weren't good enough, and all of the youth that got flipped didn't make an impact when it came to stud goalies and elite scorers taking over a game.

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07-09-2013, 02:09 PM
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Alklha
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It is difficult to make direct comparisons because of the salary cap now. I could list a lot of failing from the Blues in the 90's, and many would only apply to varying degrees.

The fact is that if you want to remain consistent now, you have to draft well and sell off your established players at the right point. My opinion is the Sharks should be selling at least 1 of their centres off now that Hertl is over. I'm a huge fan of Hertl and think he'll be a success. The problem this season is that the dropping salary cap limits your options, moving them at the deadline if you are a contender isn't an option and of course Thornton only has a year left on his deal.

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07-09-2013, 02:18 PM
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bewbies
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I think all you can ever really hope for is a "competitive" team. Get to the playoffs healthy, get hot, get some bounces, and there's your Cup. There is so little difference nowadays between 1st and 10th in a given conference, I feel like luck and who gets hot at the right time are the real deciding factors.

I think really the only "advantage" in a complete ground-up rebuild is that you may luck into a generational/superstar player in the draft, the kind of player who is normally not available through any other means. Even if you do get your superstar, you're still a long way from winning...just ask the Capitals or the Lightning.

I'd much rather the team be in playoff contention as often as possible. If the wheels totally fall off and you need a couple of rebuilding years, fine, but if you can avoid doing so, do it.

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07-09-2013, 03:17 PM
  #5
bleedblue1223
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To put it simply, the streak sucked. I compare it to the Rams, usually they are just awful, but I can look back on the 99 season and remember a championship, but I can only remember disappointment with the Blues.

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07-09-2013, 03:52 PM
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Mike Liut
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Goaltending was always the Blues nemesis. Not much has changed.

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07-09-2013, 04:27 PM
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Spektre
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We had good teams for so long due to the ability in the NHL to trade.

Throw away the last 5 years of drafting.

Look at the 10-15 years prior to that in drafting. It has to be a miracle the Blues were even competitive given how inept whichever management we had at the time was at drafting. They simply didn't care about drafting.

The St. Louis Blues are the only team in history to ever voluntarily sit out an entire Draft. Can you imagine that today? It doesn't get talked about much (little surprising) but the owners wanted to move the Blues to Saskatoon I believe. The NHL put the nix on the deal so in response we skipped the draft. Boy, we sure showed the NHL!!! lol

Then you have the Scott Stevens craziness. I'd have to go back and look but if memory serves me I think he cost the Blues 7 1st round picks when it was all said and done with. Due to the management tampering with him not once... but twice... and years apart from each.


There's really no comparing now & then due to how the draft has to build your teams. There was a lot of good hockey played at the old Arena though. I'll still contend that when we lost to Detroit (Yzerman) that was really the Finals as far as the 2 best teams competing.


I wouldn't trade all 10 Hull years for 1 Cup though. Sure it would be nice to have but that's 10 years of entertainment.

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07-09-2013, 06:02 PM
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BlueDream
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I think the Sharks need to do an all-out rebuild. Thornton, Boyle, Marleau are still great players but they are getting older and I just don't think that core has it in them to take the Sharks to a cup. The Sharks don't seem to have enough depth around them either. Clearing some salary, and getting younger and faster would be best for the Sharks. You could still get solid returns for all 3 of those guys.

Plus, SJ will have a quicker rebuild than the Blues. We literally had nothing to build around when we started the rebuild in 2006. Our roster just plain sucked.

Even if SJ ships off some vets, you can still build around Couture, Vlasic, Burns, Hertl, maybe Pavelski... That's not a bad core.

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07-09-2013, 07:28 PM
  #9
Mike Liut
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spektre View Post
We had good teams for so long due to the ability in the NHL to trade.

Throw away the last 5 years of drafting.

Look at the 10-15 years prior to that in drafting. It has to be a miracle the Blues were even competitive given how inept whichever management we had at the time was at drafting. They simply didn't care about drafting.

The St. Louis Blues are the only team in history to ever voluntarily sit out an entire Draft. Can you imagine that today? It doesn't get talked about much (little surprising) but the owners wanted to move the Blues to Saskatoon I believe. The NHL put the nix on the deal so in response we skipped the draft. Boy, we sure showed the NHL!!! lol

Then you have the Scott Stevens craziness. I'd have to go back and look but if memory serves me I think he cost the Blues 7 1st round picks when it was all said and done with. Due to the management tampering with him not once... but twice... and years apart from each.


There's really no comparing now & then due to how the draft has to build your teams. There was a lot of good hockey played at the old Arena though. I'll still contend that when we lost to Detroit (Yzerman) that was really the Finals as far as the 2 best teams competing.


I wouldn't trade all 10 Hull years for 1 Cup though. Sure it would be nice to have but that's 10 years of entertainment.

Good post. Pretty crazy, huh?

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07-09-2013, 09:11 PM
  #10
nicholas89alex
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I would have rather completely rebuilt after the pronger trade instead of trying to keep aging players and getting brewer. would have rather sold of everything and gotten a better foundation for the rebuild.

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07-09-2013, 11:36 PM
  #11
Cotton McKnight
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The teams that we have had just left me shaking my head. There was always one better team that bested us, there is this weird mental thing you watch wash over the Blues players faces (while they are in the playoffs) and then the wheels just fall off. I mean how many coaches and players have we let go, just to go watch them lift the cup somewhere else. lol At least we had the Hull years, #1 reason I fell in love with the game. Goalies, don't get me started, we are the Philly of the west, minus the insane media. I don't feel too bad about when we have let goalies go, but we have picked up some doozie-once-gooders: Carey, Lalime, Barasso, Fuhr (sorry Grant, you were awful here at first, turned it around, then Pronger shut your knee down, then there was that overtime Dallas playoff goal to end your run here). it just blows my mind sometimes while I am watching a game, then I realize I am watching hockey, this is awesome, let me enjoy this and my beer.

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07-10-2013, 12:08 AM
  #12
Mike Liut
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The Devils own our cups. If that judge wouldn't have awarded them Scott Stevens as compensation for the Blues signing Shanny, the Blues would have won several cups. Hull, Oates, Courtnall, Shanny, Stevens, Joseph, a young Brindamour, etc.... What ifffff....................

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07-10-2013, 12:11 AM
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stlblues9
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SJ should trade Thornton to the Blues to help him get a championship. I would looove to see him play for St. Louis. I really believe he would be the piece to put us over the top.

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07-10-2013, 12:27 AM
  #14
zachws6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueDream View Post
I think the Sharks need to do an all-out rebuild. Thornton, Boyle, Marleau are still great players but they are getting older and I just don't think that core has it in them to take the Sharks to a cup. The Sharks don't seem to have enough depth around them either. Clearing some salary, and getting younger and faster would be best for the Sharks. You could still get solid returns for all 3 of those guys.

Plus, SJ will have a quicker rebuild than the Blues. We literally had nothing to build around when we started the rebuild in 2006. Our roster just plain sucked.

Even if SJ ships off some vets, you can still build around Couture, Vlasic, Burns, Hertl, maybe Pavelski... That's not a bad core.
Great post and the bolded holds so much truth. You have great youth and Couture is your franchise player. Our 05-06 & 06-07 team makes me want to vomit all over the place.
Even though we did no damage in the following years, I actually enjoyed watching the Boyes/Kariya days, and the youth of Perron, Berglund, Oshie. Back then I really assumed at least of those rookies would have put up 30 by now....

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