HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Kyle Clifford to Philadelphia

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-09-2013, 08:25 PM
  #51
markisonfire
Registered User
 
markisonfire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Los Angeles
Country: United States
Posts: 4,073
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reclamation Project View Post
Injuries in 2010 led to him getting more minutes. The team has gotten better, added more talent, and he's dropped down as a result. He hasn't maintained a proper development trajectory (to me at least) and his minutes have been cut down since then. I believe a combination of not displaying development on his behalf and better players emerging have led to his current play (which is lacking).
He also suffered a concussion in last year's playoffs. I wouldn't be surprised if he's had more than one with the Kings.

markisonfire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-09-2013, 08:33 PM
  #52
Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
 
Ziggy Stardust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 33,401
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by markisonfire View Post
He also suffered a concussion in last year's playoffs. I wouldn't be surprised if he's had more than one with the Kings.
He had his bell rung by Brookbank and Reaves as well. He has a lot of desirable tools but needs some work on the tool shed. He's still only 22 with over 200 games under his belt, not to mention over 20 playoff games as well. He matched his career high in goals with 7 and did that in 48 games.

He still has plenty of room to grow into a 10-15 goal producer who can check, fight, and protect his teammates. There's a lot to like about Clifford and it would be foolish of the Kings to move him right now. That is unless they are making a major upgrade to the roster, but I don't think Clifford holds that type of value (yet).

Ziggy Stardust is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-09-2013, 08:37 PM
  #53
drums4dmf
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Pasadena
Country: United States
Posts: 67
vCash: 500
The other issue last year was the logjam of underperforming LWers (Penner, Gagne, King)that had Clifford bouncing all over the place. In all honesty Cliffy is still a project and it's been frustrating because at times you'll see him break through and show his talent whether it's on the first line or the fourth. Dean loves this kid and I wouldn't be surprised to see him locked up to a 2 yr $1.47M deal similar to what AMart received in his first RFA payday.

drums4dmf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-09-2013, 08:58 PM
  #54
Reclamation Project
What will we do?
 
Reclamation Project's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,484
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by markisonfire View Post
He also suffered a concussion in last year's playoffs. I wouldn't be surprised if he's had more than one with the Kings.
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
He had his bell rung by Brookbank and Reaves as well. He has a lot of desirable tools but needs some work on the tool shed. He's still only 22 with over 200 games under his belt, not to mention over 20 playoff games as well. He matched his career high in goals with 7 and did that in 48 games.

He still has plenty of room to grow into a 10-15 goal producer who can check, fight, and protect his teammates. There's a lot to like about Clifford and it would be foolish of the Kings to move him right now. That is unless they are making a major upgrade to the roster, but I don't think Clifford holds that type of value (yet).
I've been very critical of him, but this year his production was very impressive. Eager to see him out of a full training camp with a stable role. He needs to cut down on those horrendous penalties though. He's good for at least one a game and they always bite us in the ass. Keep the nasty, just learn some discipline.

Reclamation Project is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-09-2013, 08:59 PM
  #55
Cruel11
Registered User
 
Cruel11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 17,378
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyersfan018 View Post
Great argument. I guarantee you in 2 years Couturier is twice the player Clifford is right now. That shouldn't be too hard to do though.
Yah maybe he will be on another team.

Cruel11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-09-2013, 09:49 PM
  #56
Rorschach
Fearful Symmetry
 
Rorschach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Country: United States
Posts: 6,940
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
Exactly and well put.

I love Simmers game and he has come a long way but Clifford is still an excellent young grit player who like Simmonds is finding his way in the NHL while having to play in a D above all else system. If Clifford went to another team his O production would rocket (like Simmonds did in Philly) and his dance card would too.

Of course Simmonds and Clifford are comparable and really very closely so.
I think that's what people said but what they felt was that we got Richards, thus Simmonds is expendable. If we had gotten another player like Michael Ryder, then suddenly he would not be expendable.

Rorschach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-09-2013, 09:53 PM
  #57
King'sPawn
Enjoy the chaos
 
King'sPawn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 8,378
vCash: 500
I hate to use the "he's worth more to the Kings than he is to other teams" but that's pretty much what it boils down to.

Clifford is a huge risk, having two concussions in 3 years. He's played in all lines for various reasons, including alongside Kopitar to get him going during a slump.

But the thing is, the Kings traded Simmonds to the Flyers because they had Clifford to fill in his role on the Kings. There's not a player readily in the organization who could fill Clifford's combination of utility and ability where they would be comfortable trading him away.

So, I really don't think it's an issue of requiring overpayment to get Clifford. I just don't think he's a player the Kings are ready to part with, and his two concussions in three years give him questionable value to start.

King'sPawn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-09-2013, 10:01 PM
  #58
HolyShot*
Sniper
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Glendale, CA
Posts: 2,015
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
Exactly and well put.

I love Simmers game and he has come a long way but Clifford is still an excellent young grit player who like Simmonds is finding his way in the NHL while having to play in a D above all else system. If Clifford went to another team his O production would rocket (like Simmonds did in Philly) and his dance card would too.

Of course Simmonds and Clifford are comparable and really very closely so.
I don't see it at all. Simmonds has much better hockey sense and hands than Cliff. Cliff is a beast though.

HolyShot* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-09-2013, 11:47 PM
  #59
lancer247
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,147
vCash: 500
Clifford is like a poor man's Deadmarsh concussions included.

I would love him on the Flyers but it's tough to take that chance with the style he plays. Besides the Flyers have a similar player in McGinn both style and size.

I guess fair value might be

Grossmann + Cousins

for

Clifford + Martinez

lancer247 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-09-2013, 11:50 PM
  #60
GenericFan2*
 
Join Date: May 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,475
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Face Wash View Post
Reap... you're kidding. a pending UFA and 3rd rounder for a good PMD and a gritty LW of which the Kings currently only have 3 (4 if you convert Frattin who is not a natural LW).

Like I said above, PHI has no leverage with their cap situation. I'd want more than what you're talking about and frankly, the Flyers can't do it, they'd need to sign AMart & Clifford and Read ain't making THAT much..
Frattin is not gritty, either.

GenericFan2* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-09-2013, 11:54 PM
  #61
lancer247
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,147
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrindNMuck View Post
Not a chance Clifford leaves LA. Dean and the organization all love the way he plays. And he still is getting bigger,stronger, and faster why give up a player like that? They wont.
who is he, the bionic man? can they do anything about his concussions?

lancer247 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-09-2013, 11:58 PM
  #62
SchennSational1022*
The Future
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Long Island New York
Country: United States
Posts: 3,281
vCash: 500
We dont need this guy. Simmonds is already twice the player he is and Clifford is a poor mans version of him.

SchennSational1022* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2013, 12:39 AM
  #63
Ronk
Registered User
 
Ronk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: San Diego, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 473
vCash: 500
LA needs to hold onto him. He plays an important role and is cost effective.

Ronk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2013, 12:42 AM
  #64
KingKopitar11*
Drew Doughty Eh?
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: staples center
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 16,404
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SchennSational1022 View Post
We dont need this guy. Simmonds is already twice the player he is and Clifford is a poor mans version of him.
Can't really say that, one team is offensive, one is defensive. They have similar games, but Simmonds has bit of a better hockey IQ. Like most forwards Clifford would do better in the flyers nonexistent defense system.

KingKopitar11* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2013, 01:14 AM
  #65
Reclamation Project
What will we do?
 
Reclamation Project's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,484
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SchennSational1022 View Post
We dont need this guy. Simmonds is already twice the player he is and Clifford is a poor mans version of him.

Reclamation Project is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2013, 01:26 AM
  #66
SchennSational1022*
The Future
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Long Island New York
Country: United States
Posts: 3,281
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reclamation Project View Post
Care to disagree? Im sure youd rather have Simmonds anyday than Clifford. Also gotta love Kings fans who just think Simmonds puts up points cause hes on Philly. We were ****ing awful at 5v5 offensively, bottom line is Flyers give players more of a chance to succeed offensively than most teams. Simmonds was never gonna get top 6 minutes on LA...give me a break with this "no defense system!!!11!!11!!"

SchennSational1022* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2013, 01:44 AM
  #67
Minor Boarding
Registered User
 
Minor Boarding's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Corleone
Posts: 1,388
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SchennSational1022 View Post
Care to disagree? Im sure youd rather have Simmonds anyday than Clifford. Also gotta love Kings fans who just think Simmonds puts up points cause hes on Philly. We were ****ing awful at 5v5 offensively, bottom line is Flyers give players more of a chance to succeed offensively than most teams. Simmonds was never gonna get top 6 minutes on LA...give me a break with this "no defense system!!!11!!11!!"
Yes you were awful 5v5 but also averaged 2.90 GA/G which is good enough (bad enough?) for 23th in the NHL.

And again,
no reason to trade Clifford.
Especially not for overpaid, injury prone UFA to be players.

Minor Boarding is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2013, 01:44 AM
  #68
apadilla
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 747
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheesesteak View Post
Really? I am pretty sure Couturier was facing the harder competition but I am not a stats freak so I could be wrong...could someone enlighten us please? I don't see Clifford as anything more than a bottom six guy. He's not Simmonds and won't ever be IMO.

On a side note people act like Simmomds couldn't get points because of LAs system but the thing is a lot of his points come on the PP. There's no reason why Simmonds can't do what he's doing on any teams PP. Fact is Simmonds was behind Kopitar, Brown, Williams, Smyth, Handzus, and Stoll for the Kings forwards in PP TOI his last season there. Compared to his first season on the Flyers where he was behind only Giroux for forwards in PP TOI. 67:35 vs 264:01(according to NHL.com) that's a huge difference in PP time. Simmonds is a 2nd/3rd liner who is also a PP specialist.

Sorry just very sick of people acting like Simmonds couldn't put up points on the Kings...
the problem with Simmonds in his last year with LA was he tanked it, pure and simple, he thought he had "made it", and it showed. His trade to Philly was a good jolt for him, but if he had stayed in LA, he might of put up half the amount of points he did last season with Philly,

apadilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2013, 01:49 AM
  #69
SchennSational1022*
The Future
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Long Island New York
Country: United States
Posts: 3,281
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minor Boarding View Post
Yes you were awful 5v5 but also averaged 2.90 GA/G which is good enough (bad enough?) for 23th in the NHL.

And again,
no reason to trade Clifford.
Especially not for overpaid, injury prone UFA to be players.
I dont expect you guys to trade him he is better than what he has shown. Im just saying I dont want him on the Flyers because we dont need another player likw him.

SchennSational1022* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2013, 02:03 AM
  #70
Reclamation Project
What will we do?
 
Reclamation Project's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,484
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SchennSational1022 View Post
Care to disagree? Im sure youd rather have Simmonds anyday than Clifford. Also gotta love Kings fans who just think Simmonds puts up points cause hes on Philly. We were ****ing awful at 5v5 offensively, bottom line is Flyers give players more of a chance to succeed offensively than most teams. Simmonds was never gonna get top 6 minutes on LA...give me a break with this "no defense system!!!11!!11!!"
Because of their...


wait for it...


here we go....


SYSTEM.

Reclamation Project is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2013, 02:06 AM
  #71
Petes2424
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,107
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by markisonfire View Post
He also suffered a concussion in last year's playoffs. I wouldn't be surprised if he's had more than one with the Kings.
the way he plays, absolutely. He's a heck of a young player. He'll cap out around 18 goals but it's all the other things he brings to the table. Due to the Kings contracts, etc, there is a decent chance he could be moved. Whether it's this year or in the next couple.

It would be interesting to see what other teams really think about him. Could he fetch a #1 pick? I think he could under the right circumstance. He'd fit great in Edmonton, although Im not sure that's the right circumstance for a #1 pick. The Oilers might be one more year in the top 10 and it would take a lot to get their #1 still. As we speak of course.

Petes2424 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2013, 02:13 AM
  #72
SchennSational1022*
The Future
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Long Island New York
Country: United States
Posts: 3,281
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reclamation Project View Post
Because of their...


wait for it...


here we go....


SYSTEM.
Love when people say "System". Half of the people on this board dont even know what that means and just throw the term out like morons. It probably doesnt have anything to do with the fact he played top 6 minutes and actual powerplay time though.

SchennSational1022* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2013, 02:24 AM
  #73
Reclamation Project
What will we do?
 
Reclamation Project's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,484
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SchennSational1022 View Post
Love when people say "System". Half of the people on this board dont even know what that means and just throw the term out like morons. It probably doesnt have anything to do with the fact he played top 6 minutes and actual powerplay time though.
I'm not some troll and I actually respect the Flyers. The Kings and Flyers play two VERY different styles of hockey. The only thing they share is physicality. And I've already said that's exactly why he puts up more numbers in Philly - more playing time. If he played on Kopitar's wing he'd put up a lot of points too.

Reclamation Project is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2013, 02:30 AM
  #74
SchennSational1022*
The Future
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Long Island New York
Country: United States
Posts: 3,281
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reclamation Project View Post
I'm not some troll and I actually respect the Flyers. The Kings and Flyers play two VERY different styles of hockey. The only thing they share is physicality. And I've already said that's exactly why he puts up more numbers in Philly - more playing time. If he played on Kopitar's wing he'd put up a lot of points too.
Yes I know. I hust cant stand how loosely the term system is thrown around on this site, it really pisses me off haha.

SchennSational1022* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2013, 02:32 AM
  #75
Reclamation Project
What will we do?
 
Reclamation Project's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,484
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SchennSational1022 View Post
Yes I know. I hust cant stand how loosely the term system is thrown around on this site, it really pisses me off haha.
Like overrated, underrated, AINEC, and GOAT

Reclamation Project is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:45 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.