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What Jokerit joing the KHL means for Sweden.

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07-06-2013, 12:31 PM
  #51
vorky
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Originally Posted by Jussi
Nothing. Viasat Finland had KHL rights before Hartwall Areena was sold. Jokerit won't get any tv money that isn't via KHL. No tv network is going to pay them for exclusive coverage(despite Harkimo's initial comments), there simply isn't money to be made with such deals in Finland for any party (covered in one Finnish paper this week).
Of course not, they can not, khl-tv-deals does not work like that. KHL negotiates all tv-deals, not clubs. This can change of course, we will see.

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07-06-2013, 12:40 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
Very few. Riga made a profit of 50K euros a year ago but that maybe largely due to player transactions. Chances of Jokerit making profit aren't very high either(because they don't make profit in Finland either).
Cheers Jussi. Pretty much what I suspected. So any team joining will need handouts most likely. Doesn't seem like a very sustainable business model.

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07-06-2013, 12:45 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Pentothal View Post
Cheers Jussi. Pretty much what I suspected. So any team joining will need handouts most likely. Doesn't seem like a very sustainable business model.
It isn't. And with Rotenberg's comments about them sponsoring Jokerit only by a small amount with Harkimo having acquire most sponsorship money himself, I'm not very confident. I find Timtshenko's comments on the English version of KHL's site about them trying to copy the Jokerit business model into other KHL clubs very ironic considering the moneyhole Jokerit and Hartwall Areena have been for over a decade.

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07-06-2013, 12:47 PM
  #54
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Just to clarify, Riga didn't make any money. They simply didn't spend all of their sponsorship money. KHL is not a business as such, let alone sustainable. Whether it will have legs in future for lot of us is irrelevant, enjoy this this league for what it is while you can.

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07-06-2013, 12:48 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
Nothing. KHL negotiate tv contracts and all money from them are KHL´s revenue. There is a discussion among league and clubs to share these revenue. We will see, I think league will share this tv-deals with clubs after Sochi.

How much SHL clubs are being payed from tv-deals? When does the deal expire?
That is unbelievable. The tv-rights in Sweden is about 40 million Euro shared with 12 teams, so a team gets around 3 million Euro every year.

There must be some kind of compensation to Jokerit, that KHL has to pay.

I would never want my team, Djurgården, to join the league without getting at least 4 million Euro from tv-rights every year. Payed directly, or from KHL, I don't care. I would not want to share the money with other teams... It should be every team negotiates it's own tv-rights.

Huge clubs like Ak Bars Kazan or Salavat Yulaev gets most of their money from the actual republic they are in. Without the huge support from the (former) Bashkir President, Salavat Yulaev could not have signed star players like Radulov or Zinoviev. That kind of national support is unthinkable in the Stockholm Area. The clubs in Stockholm is like any business. We have to make our own money. That's one of the reasons tv-money is so big for us, it is a huge part of the budget for every team in SHL.


Last edited by pulverapa: 07-06-2013 at 12:54 PM.
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07-06-2013, 01:27 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by pulverapa View Post
That is unbelievable. The tv-rights in Sweden is about 40 million Euro shared with 12 teams, so a team gets around 3 million Euro every year.

There must be some kind of compensation to Jokerit, that KHL has to pay.

I would never want my team, Djurgården, to join the league without getting at least 4 million Euro from tv-rights every year. Payed directly, or from KHL, I don't care. I would not want to share the money with other teams... It should be every team negotiates it's own tv-rights.

Huge clubs like Ak Bars Kazan or Salavat Yulaev gets most of their money from the actual republic they are in. Without the huge support from the (former) Bashkir President, Salavat Yulaev could not have signed star players like Radulov or Zinoviev. That kind of national support is unthinkable in the Stockholm Area. The clubs in Stockholm is like any business. We have to make our own money. That's one of the reasons tv-money is so big for us, it is a huge part of the budget for every team in SHL.
You have to understand how tv market worked in Russia before KHL. No TV broadcasted hockey. Therefore KHL created its own television, KHL TV. I will quote ult here

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Originally Posted by ult View Post
A little bit outdated news, but still relevant. KHL will share their revenues from advertisements and TV deals with the clubs in the near future. I'd imagine with 23 million subscribers, we're talking about operating profit of at least $10mln monthly from KHL TV alone. I gues for teams with a year budget of 10 mln, getting a couple of millions from tv deals is gonna be big. Even more so for the teams like Amur or Riga who're making ~$4 million on ticket sales.
It is better KHL to negotiate tv-deals than clubs. Yes, revenue sharing is not here, but I am sure, it will be sooner than later. KHL should share tv-deals revenues based on quality of broadcast, tv ratings. So, if your club has better tv-rating, your club will get more money. We will see what model KHL adopts, this one is discussed.

KHL signed tv-deals with many broadcaster all over the world as well. Major euro KHL broadcasters are Viasat (Scandinavia, Baltic) and SportTV (central Europe). I have no idea how much money KHL gets from these deals. Maybe outdated info, KHL sold tv right to abroad for above 10M USD last summer (and during season, league sold even more).

Dont forget, KHL signed sponsor agreements These income should be shared as well. You know, KHL owns 70% of ads on arena (+ exclusive agreements with some sponsors, so club can not advertise the rival - for example, Chevrolet is league´s sponsor, club can not advertise Audi, Saab or so). Clubs can advertise banks for example.

I can imagine that club will get 5+M USD from revenue sharing, no problem. Of course, if...

EDIT:
latest infor for july 2013, amount of KHL TV subscribers is 32 869 200.


Last edited by vorky: 07-08-2013 at 05:26 AM.
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07-06-2013, 02:03 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
It isn't. And with Rotenberg's comments about them sponsoring Jokerit only by a small amount with Harkimo having acquire most sponsorship money himself, I'm not very confident. I find Timtshenko's comments on the English version of KHL's site about them trying to copy the Jokerit business model into other KHL clubs very ironic considering the moneyhole Jokerit and Hartwall Areena have been for over a decade.
Yikes..

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Originally Posted by ozo View Post
Just to clarify, Riga didn't make any money. They simply didn't spend all of their sponsorship money. KHL is not a business as such, let alone sustainable. Whether it will have legs in future for lot of us is irrelevant, enjoy this this league for what it is while you can.
So the league is basically a rich boys club's play thing, not sustainable and might collapse in the future.. But good fun while it lasts? I'm out

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07-06-2013, 02:12 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Pentothal View Post
Yikes..



So the league is basically a rich boys club's play thing, not sustainable and might collapse in the future.. But good fun while it lasts? I'm out
KHL will not collapse in next 30-50 yrs, dont worry.

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07-06-2013, 05:28 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Pentothal View Post
Yikes..



So the league is basically a rich boys club's play thing, not sustainable and might collapse in the future.. But good fun while it lasts? I'm out
Whole World´s economy is built on this principle anyway))

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07-07-2013, 04:15 AM
  #60
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I am confused or dont understand what our swedish friend write all the time. As I see it, members (fans) must have majority in swedish club, not one person (like Harkimo in Jokerit).

Quote:
Som motprestation får Hugo Stenbeck 51 procent av aktierna i Malmö Redhawks Holding AB.
http://www.sydsvenskan.se/sport/isho...oper-redhawks/

google
Quote:
In return get Hugo Stenbeck 51 percent stake in Malmö Redhawks Holding AB.
Malmö Redhawks Holding AB is owner of RedHawks, right? Stenbeck has/had majority here, right?

Btw, it seems he does not want to spend any money for club anymore.

EDIT:

I found the answer

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bennison View Post
They just barely avoided bankruptcy. 15 million SEK was raised by selling shares in a new company, Malmö Redhawks Holding AB. That company then owns 90.9% of another new company, Malmö Redhawks Ishockey AB. The sports club Malmö Redhawks owns 9.1% of the company, but holds 50.03% of the votes at the assembly as Swedish sports statutes prohibits companies holding a majority of votes in teams.

The sports club has transferred the elite hockey team to the new company on a 30 year contract. Compensation for this is 15 mio SEK that the club uses to pay off debt and avoid the bankruptcy. Part of this company deal is also that Percy Nilsson has dropped his claims on the club that was in excess of 100 mio SEK.
http://www.internationalhockey.net/f...c-League/page3


Last edited by vorky: 07-07-2013 at 04:21 AM.
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07-07-2013, 11:11 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by pulverapa View Post
I have been told that the final vote was placed by the trusted meeting chairman, who was not part of the board.

But, with Jokerit joining KHL, I don't think the Swedish Ice Hockey Federation would stop a Swedish team joining the KHL. Different times.
Vote wasn't about that.

80% of members vote yes to explore the possibility of joining the KHL.
Explore = find out: if it could be done financial, if the SIHF would accept it and if it's "at all possible"
Basically "do we even bother with looking at KHL."

Then by one vote they voted yes on having another vote later, if the answer was that it would be possible to join the KHL. Basically "do we really want this"-vote.

The meeting was attended by 200 ppl, AIK has 20000+ members. It was a pointless vote and nothing that got people of the couch.

It was all a smokescreen for the SIHF and when SIHF called AIKs bluff they folded like a card house in a tornado.

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07-07-2013, 01:35 PM
  #62
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So if clubs of Stockholm are likely not going to play in the Globe and it's hard to make members vote to join the KHL, creating new club and buying Ericsson Globe seems to be a solution. Since it is NT's main arena, the federation will have to give a permission. But what can lure fans to attend and watch games of such club? In Prague's case the lockout helped to get top players for debut season, fan culture might be different as well. Forced buying up of all available Swedes outside the NHL? Ultimate marketing? I think there are better places for the KHL to expand before Sweden.

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07-07-2013, 02:56 PM
  #63
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So if clubs of Stockholm are likely not going to play in the Globe and it's hard to make members vote to join the KHL, creating new club and buying Ericsson Globe seems to be a solution. Since it is NT's main arena, the federation will have to give a permission. But what can lure fans to attend and watch games of such club? In Prague's case the lockout helped to get top players for debut season, fan culture might be different as well. Forced buying up of all available Swedes outside the NHL? Ultimate marketing? I think there are better places for the KHL to expand before Sweden.

I'm sorry but that is a mission Tom Cruise wouldn't even be able to pull trough. Stockholm is pretty saturated with three clubs and you're not going to lure fans of existing clubs to the new one just because they play in the KHL. Sure you would be able to get some corporations who would buy a skybox to be able to grease the wheels of potential customers but you are not going to get that many "real" fans. Sweden isn't the NHL where you get a shiny new arena, a cheesy name, a silly logo and in an instant get 20000 new fans.

The only chance a swedish club will ever join the KHL is if the 51%-rule disappears and a already existing club decides to make the jump.

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07-07-2013, 04:29 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Garl View Post
Whole World´s economy is built on this principle anyway))
It is funny because it is true, from the average Sven's pyramid game of appartements to the big buisness. Anyway, even if one would find the money for a Swedish organisation I still would say they would balk at the project as the KHL with its heaps of money smells murky affairs and that will not gel very well in Sweden. In short, potential bad press will stop this kind of enterprise in Sweden. This is not because Sweden is better in anyway, just more sensitive (call it double standard or whatever).

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07-07-2013, 04:40 PM
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It is funny because it is true, from the average Sven's pyramid game of appartements to the big buisness. Anyway, even if one would find the money for a Swedish organisation I still would say they would balk at the project as the KHL with its heaps of money smells murky affairs and that will not gel very well in Sweden. In short, potential bad press will stop this kind of enterprise in Sweden. This is not because Sweden is better in anyway, just more sensitive (call it double standard or whatever).
Pretty sure we're better than Russia regarding murky affairs.

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07-08-2013, 01:08 AM
  #66
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I'm sorry but that is a mission Tom Cruise wouldn't even be able to pull trough. Stockholm is pretty saturated with three clubs and you're not going to lure fans of existing clubs to the new one just because they play in the KHL. Sure you would be able to get some corporations who would buy a skybox to be able to grease the wheels of potential customers but you are not going to get that many "real" fans. Sweden isn't the NHL where you get a shiny new arena, a cheesy name, a silly logo and in an instant get 20000 new fans.

The only chance a swedish club will ever join the KHL is if the 51%-rule disappears and a already existing club decides to make the jump.
And the Globe is owned by SGA (which is owned by the city) and i have a hard time seeing them selling the Globe. Given that they own Tele2, Söderstadion and Hovet too.

And the 51% rule, has in the last year stayed in place despite two different votes. And now the larger clubs actively work to keep it, Djurgården Football decided by vote to "actively work for the preservation of the rule".

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07-08-2013, 05:16 AM
  #67
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Which SHL/Allsvenskan clubs are most pro-euro competition? You know, which clubs want to create some euro competition like Jokerit wanted for decade? Some Allsvenskan clubs were mentioned, I would like to sum it up.

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07-10-2013, 04:06 AM
  #68
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Which SHL/Allsvenskan clubs are most pro-euro competition? You know, which clubs want to create some euro competition like Jokerit wanted for decade? Some Allsvenskan clubs were mentioned, I would like to sum it up.
It is all about economics, really. Especially for Allsvenskan clubs.

In the SHL pretty much all the top clubs have the same opinion. Together they are strong. For now, they don't want to join a European League/KHL but would be extremely interested in participating in a Champions League of Hockey.

Basically I think only Stockholm-based teams would be interested to join such league, because of how hard it is to compete with the other clubs that are not from Stockholm. It is real hard business to get everything to work for a club in Stockholm.

If Djurgården and aik came together and decided that both clubs would be interested in joining KHL, there would be a members voting. I have a hard time seeing Djurgården fans voting for KHL. Aik might get a little better result. It all depends on the economic situation really...

A new club in Stockholm is completely impossible. It would be more likely that a club from Papua New Guinea would get more fans.

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07-10-2013, 06:12 AM
  #69
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A new club in Stockholm is completely impossible. It would be more likely that a club from Papua New Guinea would get more fans.
Oh I don't know about that. A club in Papua New Guinea would have 0 fans. A new club in Stockholm would at least have Darth Yoda.

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07-10-2013, 08:33 AM
  #70
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What about if they cut a deal with Hammarby? Since they went to ****, their substantial fanbase basically have the option of supporting a lower division team or nothing at this point.

I mean IFK Gothenburg fans support Frölunda in hockey since they don't have their own team..

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Oh I don't know about that. A club in Papua New Guinea would have 0 fans. A new club in Stockholm would at least have Darth Yoda.

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07-10-2013, 08:55 AM
  #71
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What about if they cut a deal with Hammarby? Since they went to ****, their substantial fanbase basically have the option of supporting a lower division team or nothing at this point.

I mean IFK Gothenburg fans support Frölunda in hockey since they don't have their own team..



hammarby is, and will always be a football club. As far as I know, their fans either don't like hockey or cheer for Leksand or Brynäs.

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07-11-2013, 12:19 PM
  #72
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I think the whole "don't like hockey" among them is just a facade because they've got a terrible track record as a hockey club. In essence I don't think they are all that different to other Sthlm fans and would come to games if they had a proper team.

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07-11-2013, 12:58 PM
  #73
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I think the whole "don't like hockey" among them is just a facade because they've got a terrible track record as a hockey club. In essence I don't think they are all that different to other Sthlm fans and would come to games if they had a proper team.
You mean like a couple of years ago when they set the record for lowest attendance in HockeyAllsvenskan, 87 people?

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07-11-2013, 03:35 PM
  #74
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You mean like a couple of years ago when they set the record for lowest attendance in HockeyAllsvenskan, 87 people?
Is that for real?

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07-11-2013, 07:51 PM
  #75
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Based on what Göran Stubb (head of CSS European division) recently (YLE radio interview) said about the KHL teams completely wilting nearly all other club hockey activity in Latvia, Kazakhstan and Belarus, I'd say you Swedes are better off not having a KHL team.

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