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Trade and Proposals Thread XXXVI: MacT, send more help!

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Old
07-10-2013, 08:53 AM
  #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Whole View Post
http://oilersnation.com/2013/7/9/mac...e-hes-done-yet

Decent read from Brownlee. We all know MacT isn't done yet, well he says he isn't but we don't know what those one or two moves are. Best case scenario is bringing in a top pairing dmen and adds a couple 3rd line wingers. To be honest, I would be perfectly happy if he brought in two solid third line wingers. I would have no problem with our offseason if he manages to do that. The only thing I hate is how bad our bottom 6 is. I like our defence a lot more than last year, we added a top 4 dmen, Schultz hopefully develops more and if the hype around Belov is true, we could potentially have five 3-4 defencemens. We also have more depth as well with Larsen, Potter and potentially Klefbom and maybe even Marincin. I just hate our bottom 6 right now. It's mainly that third line. Adding a guy like say Antropov and one of Prospal, Boyes, Brunner, Penner or even Raymond and we look much better. We just need something to happen to improve it. There's also the Hemsky trade, so I guess we'll see what happens there.
I dont mind our bottom 6 especially if Eakins doesnt play the 4th line much.
Paajarvi-Gordon-Jones
Eager\Smyth-Lander\Hamilton-Joensu\Brown

We just need Vanek to round off our top 6.
If we are after someone for bottom 6 I want someone like Ott, Clune or Gaustad.. 60% on draws or 4 hits/game. A specialist and not more 'of the same'.

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07-10-2013, 08:53 AM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
The window for contending is very small and very short-lived in today's NHL. If the Oilers don't start making the playoffs, and soon, then this group of players will never contend for the Stanley Cup. Ever.
Yep, pretty much.
This will be Hall and Eberle's 4th season and Nuge's 3rd. Nuge, Yak, Schultz and Petry will be looking to cash in soon. In a capped NHL, there's not a large window for competing with the same core.
'12-'13 was supposed to be about competing for a playoff spot until the very end with an eye towards '13-'14 as the year to make the playoffs and have a team capable of making some noise in the playoffs and it doesn't seem like they are on the right track towards that goal.
The Pens and Blackhawks situations were completely different. They won their Cups during the ELC's of the core players and they had solid veteran support early in their careers as well.

If they don't make the playoffs next season or at the very least are within range of the 8th spot by the end of the season then they could very easily become the next Thrashers/Blue Jackets/Panthers and it will probably be time to talk about blowing up the core a bit, probably dealing Eberle or Yakupov along with Petry or Smid. They can't afford to wait for 2-3 seasons down the road just to get into the playoffs, they should be Cup contenders by that time with the core that they have in place.

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07-10-2013, 08:57 AM
  #178
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Originally Posted by Petes2424 View Post
Let's talk about a couple of left wingers that you'd trade the 2014 1st for....

Vanek??? I probably would
Clifford???? I dunno
Steen???? Possibly
Perron??? I dunno

Who were you thinking
How about both those guys.

Move out PRV and the 1st for Vanek.

Pitlick and the 2nd for Clifford.

Hemsky for Smith.

And sign Mueller.

Hall - RNH - Eberle
Vanek - Gagner - Yakupov
Clifford - Gordon - Mueller
Smyth - Smith - Jones

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07-10-2013, 09:07 AM
  #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Powder View Post
How about both those guys.

Move out PRV and the 1st for Vanek.

Pitlick and the 2nd for Clifford.

Hemsky for Smith.

And sign Mueller.

Hall - RNH - Eberle
Vanek - Gagner - Yakupov
Clifford - Gordon - Mueller
Smyth - Smith - Jones
I don't know what it is, but I just can't seem to get on board with Vanek. Maybe if we were dealt one of the kids, but I just can't see the fit with those 4 wingers on a team.

Oddly enough the Clifford trade I thought about the exact same myself last night.

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Old
07-10-2013, 09:08 AM
  #180
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Originally Posted by Joey Moss View Post
Jim Nill mentioned in his press conference today how important it is to have solid centers, defense and goaltending. All three are the weak points of our team, which is why I don't believe we're going anywhere anytime soon unless Craig can pull something out of his ass. The way our team is being built is very worrying to me. Guys like Yakupov, Hall and Eberle are premier players but if I could have a lineup that has say, Nuge - Benn - Sutter down the middle with some 30-40 point guys on the wings I'd take it any day over them. That's just how good teams are built.

Let's see what Craig can do, but I don't like where we're heading. Especially in the new division we will be going into. Look at Ottawa. Spezza - Turris - Zibanejad down the middle, the best defenseman in the league and two fantastic goalies. Not to mention size and grit all around their roster and now Bobby ****ing Ryan. I envy that team. I wish that's how the Oilers were built TBH.
We're stuck with small, skilled forwards, three of our 4 best players being wingers, a dreadful bottom 6, an inconsistent goalie, and an average defense right now. On top of that we suck at drafting and have limited assets to make any moves via trade, now we hear the news that MacT probably isn't going to be able to accomplish much of what he wanted and we will likely be talking about the draft instead of the playoffs yet again this year while Kevin Lowe will still be sliming his way out of our problems. Ugh.

I'm pretty much just really frustrated right now. If it were up to me trading Yak and/or Eberle for some quality depth and size would be in serious consideration at this point.
I had mentioned before on how Ottawa is the best run franchise in the league, and was lambasted. I still believe it to be true. They fill voids plain and simple.

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07-10-2013, 09:11 AM
  #181
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
I don't know what it is, but I just can't seem to get on board with Vanek. Maybe if we were dealt one of the kids, but I just can't see the fit with those 4 wingers on a team.

Oddly enough the Clifford trade I thought about the exact same myself last night.
Vanek would be a 1 yr rental IMO.. He will be MIN Wild after next year if we go by most reports.
Having said that I would still trade our 2014 first for him..

Vanek-RNH-Yakupov would be a nice 2nd line.

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07-10-2013, 09:11 AM
  #182
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when can Shea Weber is traded for again?

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07-10-2013, 09:15 AM
  #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Powder View Post
How about both those guys.

Move out PRV and the 1st for Vanek.

Pitlick and the 2nd for Clifford.

Hemsky for Smith.

And sign Mueller.

Hall - RNH - Eberle
Vanek - Gagner - Yakupov
Clifford - Gordon - Mueller
Smyth - Smith - Jones
Im down for this

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Old
07-10-2013, 09:20 AM
  #184
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
Yep, pretty much.
This will be Hall and Eberle's 4th season and Nuge's 3rd. Nuge, Yak, Schultz and Petry will be looking to cash in soon. In a capped NHL, there's not a large window for competing with the same core.
The cap is the least of the Oilers' problems.

Quote:
'12-'13 was supposed to be about competing for a playoff spot until the very end with an eye towards '13-'14 as the year to make the playoffs and have a team capable of making some noise in the playoffs and it doesn't seem like they are on the right track towards that goal.
Says who?

Quote:
The Pens and Blackhawks situations were completely different. They won their Cups during the ELC's of the core players and they had solid veteran support early in their careers as well
Don't look now, but Chicago just won another Cup with the same core making big money.

Quote:
If they don't make the playoffs next season or at the very least are within range of the 8th spot by the end of the season then they could very easily become the next Thrashers/Blue Jackets/Panthers and it will probably be time to talk about blowing up the core a bit, probably dealing Eberle or Yakupov along with Petry or Smid.
Yeah, blow up the core before most of them even hit their prime years.

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Old
07-10-2013, 09:26 AM
  #185
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when can Shea Weber is traded for again?
The obvious answer is never.

But it's July 24th when the hopeful, but deluded trade proposals can begin anew.

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Old
07-10-2013, 09:28 AM
  #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Powder View Post
How about both those guys.

Move out PRV and the 1st for Vanek.
Vanek is an impending UFA. I would maybe consider parting with a first rounder and a minor prospect for him, but not much more.

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07-10-2013, 09:36 AM
  #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petro Points View Post
Vanek would be a 1 yr rental IMO.. He will be MIN Wild after next year if we go by most reports.
Having said that I would still trade our 2014 first for him..

Vanek-RNH-Yakupov would be a nice 2nd line.
I don't see the point. Be different if we were already a playoff team and adding Vanek might be the piece to take us further, but being a non-playoff team throwing away a 1st for a rental seems pointless.

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07-10-2013, 09:37 AM
  #188
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Originally Posted by Pros and Cons View Post
I had mentioned before on how Ottawa is the best run franchise in the league, and was lambasted. I still believe it to be true. They fill voids plain and simple.
Maybe but they are no overnight sensation. They've had ups and a lot of downs when they first started out. They've managed to build something and rebuild from the ashes when it crashed so yeah they've done well but we're well behind where they are on the curve.


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Old
07-10-2013, 09:43 AM
  #189
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Originally Posted by Moose Coleman View Post
The cap is the least of the Oilers' problems.

Says who?

Don't look now, but Chicago just won another Cup with the same core making big money.

Yeah, blow up the core before most of them even hit their prime years.
Didn't feel like isolating the paragraphs so i just spaced out my replies.

The Cap will be a problem when the Oilers have to re-sign all the key players. RNH, Yak, Schultz and Petry will be due for big raises in the next 2 seasons and they would still need to fill out the rest of the roster. That cap space will evaporate quickly.

Says management. They planned on competing for a playoff spot last season and fell woefully short. I would think that the next step is making the playoffs.

Chicago already had an established, proven team. I'm talking about when Chicago started to compete. The Oilers are light years away from following the Chicago model even when it was in its infancy stages.

I don't see how the Oilers bring in a legit top pairing Dman, 2 way top 6 center or top goalie without dealing one of The Big 5 eventually. Free agency hasn't been kind to the Oilers outside of the pure dumb luck of landing Schultz.

How long should management remain "patient"? At what point is it not acceptable to miss the playoffs?


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Old
07-10-2013, 09:44 AM
  #190
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
I don't see the point. Be different if we were already a playoff team and adding Vanek might be the piece to take us further, but being a non-playoff team throwing away a 1st for a rental seems pointless.
The point would be to show the team that we are done with missing out on playoffs and are serious about winning games THIS year.

Jordan Eberle is 5 years removed from his draft and has seen nothing but suck here in Edmonton. Gagner probably doesnt even remember what winning a championship feels like.. Back to back memorial cup MVP has seen back to back to back years of suckiness !
MacT needs to make this into a playoffs team even if it means mortgaging the future..

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07-10-2013, 09:51 AM
  #191
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
Didn't feel like isolating the paragraphs so i just spaced out my replies.

The Cap will be a problem when the Oilers have to re-sign all the key players. RNH, Yak, Schultz and Petry will be due for big raises in the next 2 seasons and need to bring in good, complimentary players.

Says management. They planned on competing for a playoff spot last season and fell woefully short. I would think that the next step is making the playoffs.

Chicago already had an established, proven team. I'm talking about when Chicago started to compete. The Oilers are light years away from following the Chicago model even when it was in its infancy stages.

I don't see how the Oilers bring in a legit top pairing Dman, 2 way top 6 center or top goalie without dealing one of The Big 5 eventually. Free agency hasn't been kind to the Oilers outside of the pure dumb luck of landing Schultz.

How long should management remain "patient"? At what point is it not acceptable to miss the playoffs?
There will be ways around our cap problems... Teams like BOS\PIT\CHI and PHI would be drafting top 10 picks if they also worried about cap problems in 2 yrs.. They always find a way.. so will we..

With Khabi\Horc\Whitney gone our best players are making best dollars... I dont see us get stuck with cap issues. We will always be better than 10 other teams when it comes to cap issues.

I dont think finding a 'legit' starting goalie would be an issue... Lets see what Dubnyk has to offer.. There will be plenty of option next year.. Goalie market is pretty saturated now.

Dealing one of the 'big 5' would be stupid at this point ...

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07-10-2013, 09:52 AM
  #192
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Originally Posted by Petro Points View Post
The point would be to show the team that we are done with missing out on playoffs and are serious about winning games THIS year.

Jordan Eberle is 5 years removed from his draft and has seen nothing but suck here in Edmonton. Gagner probably doesnt even remember what winning a championship feels like.. Back to back memorial cup MVP has seen back to back to back years of suckiness !
MacT needs to make this into a playoffs team even if it means mortgaging the future..
So we get them to the playoffs only to suck the following year?

If you are spending the assets on Vanek, why not try target someone that can help for more than a year? I.E. Bobby Ryan?

Heck we should've just targeted Setoguchi.

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07-10-2013, 09:54 AM
  #193
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Originally Posted by Pros and Cons View Post
I had mentioned before on how Ottawa is the best run franchise in the league, and was lambasted. I still believe it to be true. They fill voids plain and simple.
And yet they haven't won anything yet. Just making the postseason shouldn't be enough.

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07-10-2013, 10:00 AM
  #194
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So we get them to the playoffs only to suck the following year?

If you are spending the assets on Vanek, why not try target someone that can help for more than a year? I.E. Bobby Ryan?

Heck we should've just targeted Setoguchi.
We will worry about the following year when we get there... enough of the long term plannings.. We can trade away another 1st and pick up another rental if we have to.
Make the playoffs and maybe better UFAs want to join us. Maybe a kid outside of 'big 5' jumps up and claims a top spot.. Maybe Taylor friggin Fedun takes over our D and becomes the rock we need. A lot can happen in 2 years.. We have enough young guys now to stop filling out rosters 3 years in advance. Lets provide them with some vets who can lead by example an not be passengers.

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07-10-2013, 10:06 AM
  #195
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Originally Posted by Petro Points View Post
The point would be to show the team that we are done with missing out on playoffs and are serious about winning games THIS year.

Jordan Eberle is 5 years removed from his draft and has seen nothing but suck here in Edmonton. Gagner probably doesnt even remember what winning a championship feels like.. Back to back memorial cup MVP has seen back to back to back years of suckiness !
MacT needs to make this into a playoffs team even if it means mortgaging the future..
Seriously?!

Get a grip man. He put up 76 points 2 seasons ago and that's nothing but suck?

Sorry but that's ********. Eberle has been amazing for us, the fact that Tambo and MacT and Klowe have been unable to build a team around our top end talent isnt the fault of any of these players. But we all know how it works here, people get frustrated and someone has a subpar season and all of a sudden they're the scape goat and we end up running them out of town. So long Horcoff, adios Gilbert, catch ya later Souray. You were never any good anyways, glad to see you gone.

Maybe we trade Eberle or Yakupov or even Hall or the Nuge to try and build a better team but we dont have to **** on them on their way out the door. These guys are all elite talent.

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07-10-2013, 10:07 AM
  #196
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I know this has been beaten to death and is highly unlikely but adding Penner would do so much for this team right now.

Out of all the names still out there via UFA, I'm hard pressed to find a guy that fills a need like Penner. Morrow, Jagr, Latendresse, Boyes etc all come with more question marks than Dustin.

It would be nice to add Penner then make minor deals for B. Boyle and K. Clifford. There's some meat an potatoes there to fill out the roster with.

Bigger names via trade, I'd love Oshie but can't see St.Louis moving him. Same with Hartnell in Philly. Vanek probably costs too much, Stafford might make sense.

Hall-Gagner-Yakupov
Penner-Hopkins-Eberle
Clifford-Gordon-Paajarvi
Eager-Boyle-Jones
Brown-Smyth

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07-10-2013, 10:08 AM
  #197
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Originally Posted by Halibut View Post
Seriously?!

Get a grip man. He put up 76 points 2 seasons ago and that's nothing but suck?

Sorry but that's ********. Eberle has been amazing for us, the fact that Tambo and MacT and Klowe have been unable to build a team around our top end talent isnt the fault of any of these players. But we all know how it works here, people get frustrated and someone has a subpar season and all of a sudden they're the scape goat and we end up running them out of town. So long Horcoff, adios Gilbert, catch ya later Souray.

Maybe we trade Eberle or Yakupov or even Hall or the Nuge to try and build a better team but we dont have to **** on them on their way out the door. These guys are all elite talent.
I think he's talking about the team (and lack of success), not Eberle himself.

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07-10-2013, 10:13 AM
  #198
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Originally Posted by Petro Points View Post
There will be ways around our cap problems... Teams like BOS\PIT\CHI and PHI would be drafting top 10 picks if they also worried about cap problems in 2 yrs.. They always find a way.. so will we..

With Khabi\Horc\Whitney gone our best players are making best dollars... I dont see us get stuck with cap issues. We will always be better than 10 other teams when it comes to cap issues.

I dont think finding a 'legit' starting goalie would be an issue... Lets see what Dubnyk has to offer.. There will be plenty of option next year.. Goalie market is pretty saturated now.

Dealing one of the 'big 5' would be stupid at this point ...
Dealing one of the Big 5 NOW would be stupid. I'm saying if there's little progress again next season, i think it might be time to deal one of the core guys (Eberle or Yakupov most likely) to balance out the roster. Next season should be playoffs or bust IMO or at the very least a battle for the 8th spot up until the very end. It's already Hall and Eberle's 4rd season coming up and this team hasn't even gotten out of the bottom 7 of the league yet. That's completely and utterly unacceptable. The team absolutely HAS TO take a big step forward next season and with the roster as is, that looks doubtful at this point.

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07-10-2013, 10:13 AM
  #199
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
Didn't feel like isolating the paragraphs so i just spaced out my replies.

The Cap will be a problem when the Oilers have to re-sign all the key players. RNH, Yak, Schultz and Petry will be due for big raises in the next 2 seasons and they would still need to fill out the rest of the roster. That cap space will evaporate quickly.
That's a lot of speculation. Plenty of teams seem able to manage multiple big money contracts in the current cap environment. We also know the Oilers are going to have lots of cap space on their hands and the cap is going to go up, probably by quite a bit. So what's the issue?

Quote:
Says management. They planned on competing for a playoff spot last season and fell woefully short. I would think that the next step is making the playoffs.
It always is.

Quote:
Chicago already had an established, proven team. I'm talking about when Chicago started to compete. The Oilers are light years away from following the Chicago model even when it was in its infancy stages.
And I'm talking about the idea that there's a window of opportunity. Chicago won a cup, ditched a large number of pieces from that team and rebuilt around the core they had. and won again. It's all about keeping your core and if the Oilers can do that (and again I don't see any reason why they can't) there's no reason they can't be in the hunt.

As for the Chicago model, the Oilers are on a different path. Doesn't mean it's the wrong one.

Quote:
I don't see how the Oilers bring in a legit top pairing Dman, 2 way top 6 center or top goalie without dealing one of The Big 5 eventually.
Pfft. They could sign a legit two-way centre right now for nothing but cash (Grabovski). A top pairing D might be a little harder to find, but I don't see it being a case where we would have to trade the big five for one. Star for star trades basically don't happen in this league. Finally, goalie is probably the least of the problems.

Quote:
How long should management remain "patient"? At what point is it not acceptable to miss the playoffs?
Three coaches in three years. New GM. Doesn't really look like an organization that's complacent. Maybe just compared to fans?

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07-10-2013, 10:15 AM
  #200
joestevens29
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Originally Posted by Petro Points View Post
We will worry about the following year when we get there... enough of the long term plannings.. We can trade away another 1st and pick up another rental if we have to.
Make the playoffs and maybe better UFAs want to join us. Maybe a kid outside of 'big 5' jumps up and claims a top spot.. Maybe Taylor friggin Fedun takes over our D and becomes the rock we need. A lot can happen in 2 years.. We have enough young guys now to stop filling out rosters 3 years in advance. Lets provide them with some vets who can lead by example an not be passengers.
It's not really long-term to look one year down the road.

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