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2013 NHL Free Agent Frenzy Part 5

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Old
07-10-2013, 10:23 AM
  #551
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
I would take Briere over Jagr in a heartbeat.

Jagr in Montreal at this point in his career will be a bigger distraction than Kovalev on his worst year. No thank you.
I wouldn't. Briere is like shooting your foot off. Jagr is like shooting off your big toe. Still pretty bad.

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07-10-2013, 10:49 AM
  #552
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where's the love bro?
I still love you too.

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07-10-2013, 10:53 AM
  #553
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
I would take Briere over Jagr in a heartbeat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
I hate the Briere signing, but even then, I still think he is a better signing than Jagr. I just don't get all the Jagr love. He looks slow and ineffective to me.
Well, I'm obviously not with you guys. "Slow and ineffective" kinda falls short of explaining his 35 points in 45 regular season games this year, and the fact that he averaged ~3 shots on goal over the regular AND post seasons (115 shots in 45 regular season games, 58 shots in 22 post season games). He was snake-bitten in the playoffs as far as scoring is concerned, but he still looked dangerous and he's still producing more offense/scoring chances than Briere at this point in their careers ON TOP OF being harder to separate from the puck, roughly a wash defensively, and earning more icetime/game while contributing to a better team.

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07-10-2013, 10:58 AM
  #554
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I can't wait until Briere proves everyone wrong.

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07-10-2013, 11:01 AM
  #555
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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
I can't wait until Briere proves everyone wrong.
Well, he'll certainly have a LOT of people to "prove wrong". Who's going to host the breath holding party?

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07-10-2013, 11:03 AM
  #556
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Well, I'm obviously not with you guys. "Slow and ineffective" kinda falls short of explaining his 35 points in 45 regular season games this year, and the fact that he averaged ~3 shots on goal over the regular AND post seasons (115 shots in 45 regular season games, 58 shots in 22 post season games). He was snake-bitten in the playoffs as far as scoring is concerned, but he still looked dangerous and he's still producing more offense/scoring chances than Briere at this point in their careers ON TOP OF being harder to separate from the puck, roughly a wash defensively, and earning more icetime/game while contributing to a better team.
How long, realistically, do you expect Jagr to last? He's 41. Yeah he proved he could put up points playing under no pressure for half a season in Dallas...but his production screeched to a halt in the 2nd half with Philly two years ago, and no one needs talk about how downright bad he was in the playoffs this year. He'll cash his cheque, start out hot, and crash back to earth again next year, and it'll be a disaster in a media-heavy place like Montreal. I'll take my chances on Briere and won't really think twice about it. I just feel sorry for the people who keep building up their hope for Jagr every off-season. If the Habs aren't offering the most $, he's not coming.

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07-10-2013, 11:03 AM
  #557
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Well, he'll certainly have a LOT of people to "prove wrong". Who's going to host the breath holding party?
Patofqc.

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07-10-2013, 11:08 AM
  #558
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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
I can't wait until Briere proves everyone wrong.
Well, you might want to get ready to wait, just in case.

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07-10-2013, 11:39 AM
  #559
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
How long, realistically, do you expect Jagr to last? He's 41. Yeah he proved he could put up points playing under no pressure for half a season in Dallas...but his production screeched to a halt in the 2nd half with Philly two years ago
And yet he ramped it up this year with 9 points in 11 games down the stretch upon joining the Bruins. Weird huh?

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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
, and no one needs talk about how downright bad he was in the playoffs this year.
Because he wasn't. They needed a few more goals, and didn't get any from the 58 shots he personally fired at the net, but otherwise he handled his 18 mins/game just fine - fine enough to help his team to the Stanley Cup Final, no less.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
He'll cash his cheque, start out hot, and crash back to earth again next year, and it'll be a disaster in a media-heavy place like Montreal.
Sweet crystal ball hoto. Would have failed you this year, though, so why not next year also? From all reports, he's in no worse shape or condition to battle through a season - certainly no worse than Briere, who is the only direct comparison at this point anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
I'll take my chances on Briere and won't really think twice about it. I just feel sorry for the people who keep building up their hope for Jagr every off-season. If the Habs aren't offering the most $, he's not coming.
Totally different issue from his level of play, but remember that it only would have taken $3.3 million to land Jagr back in '10/11, and now they've thrown $4 million and multiple years at Briere, lol. Heck, the past two years of Jagr cost $7.8 million of total cap hit, and I bet Phi/Dal/Bos got more out of those dollars than the Habs will get out of $8 million of Briere over the next two seasons.

I feel sorry for those who are waiting for the next French infusion to make an actual impact, only to see names like Desharnais and Briere attached to those hopes.

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07-10-2013, 11:48 AM
  #560
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I'd like to see the Habs offer a two-way deal to Theo Peckham and/or Mark Fistric. Both are still young enough to develop into decent NHL players and both play with an edge.

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07-10-2013, 11:51 AM
  #561
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
I hate the Briere signing, but even then, I still think he is a better signing than Jagr. I just don't get all the Jagr love. He looks slow and ineffective to me. His teams were throwing icetime and scoring situations at him all last year, and he still didn't produce much. He looks very passive out there to me. I don't think our team needs a famous passenger. I'd rather have another midget, if that midget will at least play with intensity and passion.
Except Jagr still produced and played well. He was snake bitten in the POs but was still dangerous.
On our team like ours, that's lacking size and could use a great puck protector like Jagr, who's also always somewhat dependent of their PP, it makes a lot more sense to pick Jagr over Briere.

Both are fillers, Jagr would probably get a 1y deal as well, as opposed to 2 for Briere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
I would take Briere over Jagr in a heartbeat.

Jagr in Montreal at this point in his career will be a bigger distraction than Kovalev on his worst year. No thank you.
Not sure why he'd be a distraction. We're not signing a 41yo to play a premiere role.

You sign him as a depth player - PP specialist.

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Old
07-10-2013, 11:52 AM
  #562
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I'd like to see the Habs offer a two-way deal to Theo Peckham and/or Mark Fistric. Both are still young enough to develop into decent NHL players and both play with an edge.
Fistric would be my choice personally

I find Peckham makes a lot of dumb decisions with the puck and takes about 1-2 stupid penalties every 2 games. He's pretty bad in the games I've watched the Oilers play. Lots of mental mistakes

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07-10-2013, 11:56 AM
  #563
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
And yet he ramped it up this year with 9 points in 11 games down the stretch upon joining the Bruins. Weird huh?
And lost it altogether when it mattered most (or, excuse me, when he stopped getting paycheques). Weird huh? Briere put up more points in his last playoff appearance in half as many games as Jagr played this year, are we just sweeping that under the rug?

Quote:
Because he wasn't. They needed a few more goals, and didn't get any from the 58 shots he personally fired at the net, but otherwise he handled his 18 mins/game just fine - fine enough to help his team to the Stanley Cup Final, no less.
He "helped" his team to the final in the same way that Tomas Kaberle "helped" the Bruins win it a few years ago. Both players brought roughly the same contribution.

In fact (and this is hilarious to even say), Kaberle outscored Jagr in their playoff runs.

But of course, I realize even as I type this I'm setting myself up for another sermon in "puck protection" that Jagr's fans love to default back to.

Quote:
Sweet crystal ball hoto. Would have failed you this year, though, so why not next year also? From all reports, he's in no worse shape or condition to battle through a season - certainly no worse than Briere, who is the only direct comparison at this point anyway.
How do you figure it would have failed me? His production tanked halfway through the year with the Flyers, and it tanked at what would have been the halfway point last year too. That's two years of similar results, why am I out of line in predicting in will happen for a third year? Typically the production of 41 year olds trends downward, not upward. In case that got forgotten along the way.

Quote:
Totally different issue from his level of play, but remember that it only would have taken $3.3 million to land Jagr back in '10/11, and now they've thrown $4 million and multiple years at Briere, lol. Heck, the past two years of Jagr cost $7.8 million of total cap hit, and I bet Phi/Dal/Bos got more out of those dollars than the Habs will get out of $8 million of Briere over the next two seasons.
I really don't have much interest in playing the "what could have been" game, so, okay.

Quote:
I feel sorry for those who are waiting for the next French infusion to make an actual impact, only to see names like Desharnais and Briere attached to those hopes.
I don't care if Briere is French, English, Turkish or Mandalorian, I just think he'll help us more than Jagr, which is all I'm really arguing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Not sure why he'd be a distraction. We're not signing a 41yo to play a premiere role.

You sign him as a depth player - PP specialist.
Clearly, you've forgotten what city you'd be signing him to play in. I'd be very interested to see the reaction in the media if our "PP specialist" went 20 games without scoring a goal in Montreal. Guy would be "dying alive" all over again.


Last edited by hototogisu: 07-10-2013 at 12:03 PM.
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Old
07-10-2013, 12:27 PM
  #564
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I'm not worried about the offense. This team last season, at least for the beginning of the year, found ways to score goals and come back from deficits and made us believe the game was never over.

It's the defense that is just horrible along with Price that needs to step it up. We can compete for the division over an 82 game schedule, barring any major injuries (last year we were very lucky aside from the Emelin injury).

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07-10-2013, 12:32 PM
  #565
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I'm not worried about the offense. This team last season, at least for the beginning of the year, found ways to score goals and come back from deficits and made us believe the game was never over.

It's the defense that is just horrible along with Price that needs to step it up. We can compete for the division over an 82 game schedule, barring any major injuries (last year we were very lucky aside from the Emelin injury).

In the regular season yes but in the playoffs it will be a different story.

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07-10-2013, 12:37 PM
  #566
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In the regular season yes but in the playoffs it will be a different story.
Playoffs are usually low scoring in nature. Missing a Lars Eller can make a huge difference.

But I will admit our offense, on paper, doesn't stack up to some other teams.

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07-10-2013, 12:37 PM
  #567
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In the regular season yes but in the playoffs it will be a different story.
After their performance against Boston, should the Penguins be worried about their offense?

What I'm saying is that you can't go on a short series to determine a team's offensive needs.

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07-10-2013, 12:55 PM
  #568
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How long, realistically, do you expect Jagr to last? He's 41. Yeah he proved he could put up points playing under no pressure for half a season in Dallas...but his production screeched to a halt in the 2nd half with Philly two years ago, and no one needs talk about how downright bad he was in the playoffs this year.
Wow that's just wrong, Jagr was incredible this year. Yes he was snake-bitten in the playoffs but it definitely was not for a lack of trying. He played great in the playoffs and generated a lot of scoring chances but it just wasn't going in. It's still almost impossible to knock him off the puck. I would definitely try to improve the team by trades first but it could not hurt the team to have guy like Jagr for a year. He actually looked great in a fast paced western conference last year and was leading the stars in scoring.

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07-10-2013, 12:56 PM
  #569
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Mid-term solutions for D-Depth: Fistric / Murray
Short-term solutions for D-Depth: Steve Eminger

In reality, MB needs to find Cube's replacement after this upcoming season.

So a two-three year deal for either Fistric or Murray would make sense IMO. I would drop Drewiske or send him to the Bulldogs to round off their D-Squad.

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07-10-2013, 01:05 PM
  #570
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Wow that's just wrong, Jagr was incredible this year. Yes he was snake-bitten in the playoffs but it definitely was not for a lack of trying. He played great in the playoffs and generated a lot of scoring chances but it just wasn't going in. It's still almost impossible to knock him off the puck. I would definitely try to improve the team by trades first but it could not hurt the team to have guy like Jagr for a year. He actually looked great in a fast paced western conference last year and was leading the stars in scoring.
I didn't find him "great" by any measure, whether he was scoring or not. I thought he was consistently one of Boston's worst and most ineffective forwards. But here we go again with puck possession...

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07-10-2013, 01:24 PM
  #571
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I didn't find him "great" by any measure, whether he was scoring or not. I thought he was consistently one of Boston's worst and most ineffective forwards. But here we go again with puck possession...
You keep dissing the argument, but it's a fact that one of our problem last year in the playoffs was maintaining puck possession in the low zone. Opponents we're holding and doing obstruction like crazy, which killed our standard cycling methods that proved effective over the season.

Having someone beside Eller who can basically glue the puck to his stick would have been great, especially after said Eller got knocked out.

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07-10-2013, 01:51 PM
  #572
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You keep dissing the argument, but it's a fact that one of our problem last year in the playoffs was maintaining puck possession in the low zone. Opponents we're holding and doing obstruction like crazy, which killed our standard cycling methods that proved effective over the season.

Having someone beside Eller who can basically glue the puck to his stick would have been great, especially after said Eller got knocked out.
Personally I found we had a much bigger problem crashing the net/creating traffic and clearing the crease/making the opponents pay for crashing ours.

Neither of which are areas I feel we've addressed this off-season, mind you, but Jagr wouldn't help us much in those areas either. So if we're simply choosing between Briere and Jagr (the original argument), I still go with the guy who I feel is the better player, Briere.

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07-10-2013, 02:03 PM
  #573
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Personally I found we had a much bigger problem crashing the net/creating traffic and clearing the crease/making the opponents pay for crashing ours.

Neither of which are areas I feel we've addressed this off-season, mind you, but Jagr wouldn't help us much in those areas either. So if we're simply choosing between Briere and Jagr (the original argument), I still go with the guy who I feel is the better player, Briere.
Sentence number one sums it up quite nicely. We have scorers but their style of play isn't as effective in the play-offs where goals are more often scored in the dirty areas. This is why I disagree anytime people talk about moving Bourque, because he and Gallagher were our most dangerous forwards against Ottawa since they did go to the net. We need another guy like Bourque in terms of size, skill and willingness to go to the net. By the way, have read posts here talking about Patches saying he thought he would change his style since the elite scorers are more perimeter type players. They better have an intervention and tell this kid he is more effective and a bigger asset to this team if he forgets that rubbish and goes back to driving the net.

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07-10-2013, 02:39 PM
  #574
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D'Agostini signs in Pittsburgh.

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07-10-2013, 03:04 PM
  #575
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Not really sure where to put this, here seems like the best place.

Detroit is right up against the cap and still needs to sign RFAs Gustav Nyquist and Brendan Smith. The only way they would be able to gain enough cap space to get them both signed is probably via trade. So my question, is there any chance we could pry away Darren Helm and/or Justin Abdelkader? It gives us more depth and they both play a physical, agitating game that we need.

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