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Old
07-09-2013, 05:41 PM
  #51
Machinehead
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WWAD View Post
HF should sticky a "M. Staal to Carolina for XYZ" thread so we don't get a new one every other day for the next two years.
Now there's an idea.

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Old
07-09-2013, 05:58 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by WWAD View Post
HF should sticky a "M. Staal to Carolina for XYZ" thread so we don't get a new one every other day for the next two years.
WWAD, quick send us your address. I will call your local PD and send them over asap. They will take care of that guy who is twisting your arm; making you open and read these threads.

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Old
07-10-2013, 07:20 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
I'm convinced you haven't watched enough of Marc over the years with nonsense like this. When Faulk has consistently shut down the league's elite for years, then you can confidently post this.

As of right now, I view you as just another homer who posts his opinions and tries to pawn them off as facts.
Of course you do, yet where is your factual analysis of Faulk? How many times have you seen him play? What are his strengths and weaknesses? How do his "tough minutes" compare with Staal? Which guy has a better supporting D corps to better distribute the tough mintues? No? That's what I thought.

I've been through this with NYR homer posters about Staal before. There seems to be a knee-jerk reaction to any hint of criticism or comparison of Staal to someone else. So let's examine what I actually wrote because your reaction is as if I posted something blasphemous.

I wrote "Faulk is not far off from Staal in overall on-ice performance." No go back and look at your hyperbolic, defensive reply. Scroll back through what I already posted on this topic, here and in other Staal threads, and it's clear my opinions are far from those of a homer. Yet your post? Well let's just say even your "facts" are suspect at best.

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Old
07-10-2013, 08:24 AM
  #54
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Staal for Faulk is never going to happen. One for one or +'s on either side.

Carolina is looking to get Staal to bolster the defence with Faulk. Trading Faulk for Staal does not help Carolina at all.

If the Rangers are trading Staal to Carolina, then Carolina will have to be willing to part with assets that make you think twice, but assets that can be moved nonetheless.

Elias Lindholm, Phil Di Giuseppe and a 1st in 2014 stings. Yet they are adding a #2 defenceman without losing anything off their current roster.

I believe this is a deal that while it would hurt the Rangers, having the defence they have I believe it's a deal that can be withstood by the Rangers.

McDonagh - Girardi
Del Zotto - Stralman
Moore - Falk

Mobile, solid at both ends of the ice.

Staal will not be traded for scraps and 2nd/3rd line tweeners. He's got alot more value than that. However asking the Canes to part with their #1 defenceman or Skinner is not thinking of the Canes needs at all.

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Old
07-10-2013, 08:34 AM
  #55
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Overpayment or wait

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Old
07-10-2013, 08:37 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Championship View Post
Overpayment or wait
Smart play is to wait on how his eyesight is and if it's ok, then wait on free agency. Parting with Skinner or Faulk now is crazy talk.

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Old
07-10-2013, 09:19 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
Staal for Faulk is never going to happen. One for one or +'s on either side.

Carolina is looking to get Staal to bolster the defence with Faulk. Trading Faulk for Staal does not help Carolina at all.

If the Rangers are trading Staal to Carolina, then Carolina will have to be willing to part with assets that make you think twice, but assets that can be moved nonetheless.

Elias Lindholm, Phil Di Giuseppe and a 1st in 2014 stings. Yet they are adding a #2 defenceman without losing anything off their current roster.

I believe this is a deal that while it would hurt the Rangers, having the defence they have I believe it's a deal that can be withstood by the Rangers.

McDonagh - Girardi
Del Zotto - Stralman
Moore - Falk

Mobile, solid at both ends of the ice.

Staal will not be traded for scraps and 2nd/3rd line tweeners. He's got alot more value than that. However asking the Canes to part with their #1 defenceman or Skinner is not thinking of the Canes needs at all.
So how does this help us win NOW?

Lindholm is projected as the Canes' 4th line center going into next season. I've never even heard of that Phil guy, and that 1st will probably be in the 10-20 range, meaning we'll only get a solid player who can contribute in 2-3 years. In 4 years from now, Lundqvist will be 35. Which is when most goalies start declining.

There's 2 packages I would want.

Skinner + Murphy + 3rd for Staal + Pyatt (cap reasons)

OR

Faulk + Ruutu (1/3 salary retained) for Staal

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07-10-2013, 09:21 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StormCast View Post
Of course you do, yet where is your factual analysis of Faulk? How many times have you seen him play? What are his strengths and weaknesses? How do his "tough minutes" compare with Staal? Which guy has a better supporting D corps to better distribute the tough mintues? No? That's what I thought.

I've been through this with NYR homer posters about Staal before. There seems to be a knee-jerk reaction to any hint of criticism or comparison of Staal to someone else. So let's examine what I actually wrote because your reaction is as if I posted something blasphemous.

I wrote "Faulk is not far off from Staal in overall on-ice performance." No go back and look at your hyperbolic, defensive reply. Scroll back through what I already posted on this topic, here and in other Staal threads, and it's clear my opinions are far from those of a homer. Yet your post? Well let's just say even your "facts" are suspect at best.
Faulk is better offensively. That we can all agree on.

Staal is better defensively. Think Suter/Doughty-level good.

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Old
07-10-2013, 09:33 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Championship View Post
Overpayment or wait
Wait it is.

We overpayed for Jordan rather than wait. I doubt it's going to happen again. I don't doubt that Rutherford is pretty intent on getting him, though. When he started 3 Staal brothers on the 1st line in that last home game against the Rangers, the message was pretty clear.

I think Marc is content to see if the Rangers can turn things around the next two years and win the Cup. Either way, I think he walks in 2 years and the Canes sign him.

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Old
07-10-2013, 09:50 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by StormCast View Post
Smart play is to wait on how his eyesight is and if it's ok, then wait on free agency. Parting with Skinner or Faulk now is crazy talk.
Please be our guest then.

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Old
07-10-2013, 09:56 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Chreider View Post
So how does this help us win NOW?

Lindholm is projected as the Canes' 4th line center going into next season. I've never even heard of that Phil guy, and that 1st will probably be in the 10-20 range, meaning we'll only get a solid player who can contribute in 2-3 years. In 4 years from now, Lundqvist will be 35. Which is when most goalies start declining.

There's 2 packages I would want.

Skinner + Murphy + 3rd for Staal + Pyatt (cap reasons)

OR

Faulk + Ruutu (1/3 salary retained) for Staal
As mentioned, I believe we can withstand the loss of Staal. The defence is more than capable of playing well without Staal. YES it would be better if he were there, but if you are going to move him, the return has to be one that takes the opposing teams needs into consideration.

Carolina is not giving up Skinner or Faulk in a package for Staal as that flies in the face of what they need and are looking to do.

Rangers can take advantage of a situation where they can get an overpayment of sorts in the form of top prospects and picks

Lindholm, it could be argued is the Canes #1 prospect. The Di Giuseppe kid is a 2nd rounder playing with Cristoval Nieves at the U of Michigan. a 1st between 10-20 along with our own 1st can only strengthen the franchise.

We can still try to win now while bolstering the future of the team.

I believe in balance.

Balance between spreading the finances between forwards, defence and goalie. I believe in balance in trying to win now while keeping an eye towards the future so that when we have to move an asset like a Staal or a Callahan, we can do so with the comfort knowing we have a pipeline of prospects pushing their way onto the team.

I do not believe we have the proper balance between forwards and defence, I do not believe we have proper cap balance. I believe that the overall structure of the team is wrong in terms of not having size where we need it. Talent where we can use it.

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Old
07-10-2013, 10:12 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Misfit Semin View Post
The Skinner / McBain for Staal/Boyle was always a great trade that both sides would do.

Skinner for Staal / Boyle would be fine still to me.

Tlusty / Eric / Semin
???? / Jordan / Ruutu
???? / Boyle / Lindholm
Sutter / Welsh / ????
Westgarth
Faulk / Marc
Joni / Sekera
Harrison / Gleason
Komisarek

Ward
Anton
This is the trade that makes sense. Canes cant keep pucks out of the net, Rangers cant put pucks in the net. Problems.....addressed. I wont say solved.

Boyle would address the canes third line center position, and keep Linholm (if he makes the team) out of that shut down position as a rookie.

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07-10-2013, 10:13 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Chreider View Post
Faulk is better offensively. That we can all agree on.

Staal is better defensively. Think Suter/Doughty-level good.
Yes, we agree on the first point.
On the defensive play scale, that's a pretty wide swing between Suter and Doughty. I think you're overselling Staal comparing him to Suter and underselling him comparing him to Doughty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Championship View Post
Please be our guest then.
Great, thanks and happy to wait.

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Old
07-10-2013, 10:19 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Troll Ward View Post
As a Carolina fan, DO NOT WANT any piece of MStaal until the eye issue is 100% setteled. Don't like giving up Tlusty+ for anything either. Last year was the first time we had a good top line for years.
FWIW, it is settled. He's recovering rather well.

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Old
07-10-2013, 10:20 AM
  #65
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FWIW, it is settled. He's recovering rather well.
He returned for one game in the playoffs then dissapeared. (I'd be less concerned had he not returned at all tbh. To return for one game like he did was weird)

Its far from settled, as much as we want it to be.

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Old
07-10-2013, 10:22 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by BPD View Post
FWIW, it is settled. He's recovering rather well.
Has he played a game since his half game return? No, so nothing is settled until he plays more than half a game. A healthy eye does not mean that he is back to his normal self

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07-10-2013, 10:24 AM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Chreider View Post
So how does this help us win NOW?

Lindholm is projected as the Canes' 4th line center going into next season.

There's 2 packages I would want.

Skinner + Murphy + 3rd for Staal + Pyatt (cap reasons)

OR

Faulk + Ruutu (1/3 salary retained) for Staal
First off: That Lindholm comment couldnt be further from the truth. If hes on the team, hes playing top nine.

There is no chance you get BOTH Skinner and Murphy.

As has been stated, giving up Faulk for Staal isnt helpful to the Hurricanes. It is at best a lateral move for a more expensive Defenseman. Obviously getting some cap relief from Ruutu would be helpful, but not at the loss of Faulk.

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Old
07-10-2013, 11:15 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Kris Chreider View Post
So how does this help us win NOW?

Lindholm is projected as the Canes' 4th line center going into next season. I've never even heard of that Phil guy, and that 1st will probably be in the 10-20 range, meaning we'll only get a solid player who can contribute in 2-3 years. In 4 years from now, Lundqvist will be 35. Which is when most goalies start declining.

There's 2 packages I would want.

Skinner + Murphy + 3rd for Staal + Pyatt (cap reasons)

OR

Faulk + Ruutu (1/3 salary retained) for Staal

This obsession with NOW is fool's gold that actually hurts us.
Make the best possible deal, whether it is today, near term, or long term down the road.

Make that deal with the best partner for that particular deal, whether in the case of Marc Staal it is the Canes or anybody else.

Staal + Girardi + _____ [if nec. make extension for Girardi first]
for
Faulk + __________

improves Canes total D, w/ 2 real shut down Ds.

upgrades Rangers D on right side, slightly younger

other benes depend on other pieces.

THIS is the core of a deal.

Canes have to understand we are happy to keep Staal unless someone wants to pay a premium, and many such clubs/offers exist.

If they want best chance to assure Staal comes, now is the time to make a mutually reasonable deal.


NOTICE ---
THERE ARE PLUSES IN THE DEAL.
IT IS NOT 1 FOR 1.

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Old
07-10-2013, 11:21 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
As mentioned, I believe we can withstand the loss of Staal. The defence is more than capable of playing well without Staal. YES it would be better if he were there, but if you are going to move him, the return has to be one that takes the opposing teams needs into consideration.

Carolina is not giving up Skinner or Faulk in a package for Staal as that flies in the face of what they need and are looking to do.

Rangers can take advantage of a situation where they can get an overpayment of sorts in the form of top prospects and picks

Lindholm, it could be argued is the Canes #1 prospect. The Di Giuseppe kid is a 2nd rounder playing with Cristoval Nieves at the U of Michigan. a 1st between 10-20 along with our own 1st can only strengthen the franchise.

We can still try to win now while bolstering the future of the team.

I believe in balance.

Balance between spreading the finances between forwards, defence and goalie. I believe in balance in trying to win now while keeping an eye towards the future so that when we have to move an asset like a Staal or a Callahan, we can do so with the comfort knowing we have a pipeline of prospects pushing their way onto the team.

I do not believe we have the proper balance between forwards and defence, I do not believe we have proper cap balance. I believe that the overall structure of the team is wrong in terms of not having size where we need it. Talent where we can use it.
Underline: agree, UNLESS Girardi goes the other way. Then they are still adding net D overall, and have not lost a righty D. (NY would be losing a LD, but we have nominal surplus).

Bold: I could support some variation of some of these prospects as part of the deal. I could see a 3-3 deal.

Italic: concur 100%

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Old
07-10-2013, 11:34 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Kris Chreider View Post
Not the worst first proposal. There are worse 100th proposals.

Staal to Carolina with Tlusty as the centerpiece would cost Tlusty, Murphy, and a 1st. Depending on how the Canes do next year, maybe a 1st and a 2nd.

Not really interested in Lowe.
Ironically, now that's one of the worst proposals I've heard.


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Old
07-10-2013, 11:36 AM
  #71
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He returned for one game in the playoffs then dissapeared. (I'd be less concerned had he not returned at all tbh. To return for one game like he did was weird)

Its far from settled, as much as we want it to be.
Read Brooks. Staal's eye will be fine.

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07-10-2013, 11:42 AM
  #72
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Rangers fans can ask all the want. Faulk isn't going back in any way. Not out of fan pride or stubbornness, out of pure obviousness. They need d. Faulk is only one who is in the long term future. They are looking to add staal to Faulk. Trading Faulk for staal creates the same exact hole. Adding Girardi or anyone else is ridiculous. Try telling your new coach youre trading your top pairing of d for Faulk but youre trying to win the cup.

It isn't that Faulk is more valuable than staal. It's just a trade that lacks sense.

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Old
07-10-2013, 11:42 AM
  #73
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He returned for one game in the playoffs then dissapeared. (I'd be less concerned had he not returned at all tbh. To return for one game like he did was weird)

Its far from settled, as much as we want it to be.
That had little to do with the eye itself. His medication left him with a lacking appetite and he lost a lot of muscle weight.

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07-10-2013, 01:58 PM
  #74
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Rangers fans can ask all the want. Faulk isn't going back in any way. Not out of fan pride or stubbornness, out of pure obviousness. They need d. Faulk is only one who is in the long term future. They are looking to add staal to Faulk. Trading Faulk for staal creates the same exact hole. Adding Girardi or anyone else is ridiculous. Try telling your new coach youre trading your top pairing of d for Faulk but youre trying to win the cup.

It isn't that Faulk is more valuable than staal. It's just a trade that lacks sense.
Wrongo.

Underline: need to continue to improve team, including moving vets for lesser salary for cap flexibility. This win the cup NOW NOW NOW NOW mentality is cutting the nose to spite the face.

Do not stand pat for the sake of standing pat, do not make deals for sake of shake up or just to make a deal.

Make as many deals that improve the club as you can, as circumstances allow, be they conducive to many deals right away, or many deals later, or something else.


Bold: Either Rangers can afford to accommodate and trade Staal for non D assets or it cannot. At this moment the answer is no, although it is conceivable something around Staal + for Skinner + and a third team sending acceptable D to Rangers for Skinner could happen.

Faulk is key asset to which NY will make deal.
I will listen with an open mind, but it would appear no deal unless Faulk is part of it.
Likewise, if Faulk comes here, you need a righty D (Girardi) returning to CAR.


Just fill in the gaps.
Is that so hard?

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Old
07-10-2013, 02:02 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Wrongo.

Underline: need to continue to improve team, including moving vets for lesser salary for cap flexibility. This win the cup NOW NOW NOW NOW mentality is cutting the nose to spite the face.

Do not stand pat for the sake of standing pat, do not make deals for sake of shake up or just to make a deal.

Make as many deals that improve the club as you can, as circumstances allow, be they conducive to many deals right away, or many deals later, or something else.


Bold: Either Rangers can afford to accommodate and trade Staal for non D assets or it cannot. At this moment the answer is no, although it is conceivable something around Staal + for Skinner + and a third team sending acceptable D to Rangers for Skinner could happen.

Faulk is key asset to which NY will make deal.
I will listen with an open mind, but it would appear no deal unless Faulk is part of it.
Likewise, if Faulk comes here, you need a righty D (Girardi) returning to CAR.


Just fill in the gaps.
Is that so hard?
Faulk is going nowhere. I don't know how many times people have to reiterate this.

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