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Is Eric Lindros hall of fame worthy?

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Old
07-09-2013, 09:24 PM
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I don't know if I'd agree with the last part of that statement. He's not in the top 100 for points, not in the top 100 for goals, and not in the top 100 for assists. I'm not sure where he ranks exactly in those categories, but if hes outside the top 100 in every major category, i think saying he put up numbers among the greatest of all time is disingenuous.

He's in the top 25 for PPG, but again that's not enough for me to vote for him to get in.
You're basically punishing him for not playing long enough, and it's already been determined that that isn't really something to knock someone over, unless you're willing to kick a few players out. Bobby Orr is 11th all time in points for Dmen, yet he's still considered the greatest offensive Dman to ever play. He's only 11th because other players put in over double his 657 game career to amass them. Top 25 after playing several seasons as a shell of himself is still really good.

You really don't think a guy who is the 25th best point producer (Out of however many thousand players have come through the ages) over the course of his 760 game career (Definitely an adequate sample size) should be in the HOF? Those are some insanely strict standards.

Edit: Ooooh, Desjardins is 39th and Timonen 48th. For Dman ppg.

Edit 2: Mike Bossy is a HOFer. He has 8 less games played than Lindros. I'll start writing the HHOF to let them know he needs booting.

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07-09-2013, 09:34 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Appleyard View Post
When it counted most? So 96-97?

Like being the top scorer in the NHL those playoffs... willing the team to the finals on his own back, and being the 2nd top point scorer for us in the finals themselves.

That finals only Lindros, Brind'Amour, Leclair and Desjardins came to play. And Terry Murray got out-coached something awful.

Or is it those 95-96... when he was our top point scorer in the playoffs?

Or those 94-95 playoffs... when he was our top point scorer in the playoffs?

Or 97-98... he was really poor in those playoffs, only our 2nd best point scorer in them!

Or 99-00... when he came back from a severe concussion against doctors advice to try and help the team, after being publicly humiliated by the team after they had contributed to him almost dying the year before and misdiagnosed numerous concussions...

and was the only guy on the roster who even turned up for game 6, and the only guy who scored, heck, at the time it seemed like his line were the only ones to have any shots that game!

He was clutch... as his playoff performances compared to the rest of the team shows, as do the games when he was the only guy on the score-sheet, but you can't do everything yourself. Up until 99-00 our team usually only had 5 top 9 guys... if Lindros did not produce magic each game, we usually lost.

How is that not 'performing when it matters.'
wo wo wo alright dude. i get it. you love the guy. calm down. he was a great player but we didn't win a cup with him. was it all on him? no. did he skate with his head down like a tard? yes

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07-09-2013, 09:35 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by funghoul View Post
wo wo wo alright dude. i get it. you love the guy. calm down. he was a great player but we didn't win a cup with him. was it all on him? no. did he skate with his head down like a tard? yes
Dionne didn't win a Cup. That's not his fault, just like it isn't Lindros' fault. Dionne is still a HOFer.

Edit: If I'm not mistaken, Dionne actually has a record of disappointing playoff performances.

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07-09-2013, 09:39 PM
  #104
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DFF the point is your argument is against people that don't exist. There are no floodgates to be opened, there are almost 0 comparable players to Eric Lindros. There are only 2 people, as of right now, that have had a career similar to Lindros and they are Forsberg and Crosby, and Crosby still has the chance to have a long career.

Bure and Neely, who are already in, are not in the same category. The only other somewhat comparable players are Kent Nilsson, Mike Rogers, and Ziggy Palffy. Rogers' and Nilsson's PPG are inflated by playing in the 80's, and Rogers WHA and NHL combined PPG was only 1.01.

Palffy was a really good player. Had a couple years in the top 10 of scoring, but was never really a threat to the scoring title, and did not play the all around game that Lindros did. He played in less games, and had less points, and a much lower PPG. He was in the lower tier of NHL stars.

We are not talking about a PPG player who only played 500 games. This is not a guy who was a very good player. He was one of the most dominate players in the league, that was in the game for over a decade.

There are numerous guys in the hall simply because they played a bunch of games. Would you really take Joe Nieuwendyk over Lindros? Lindros had 9 straight PPG+ seasons. Nieuwendyk had 6 total and he played in the 80's/early 90's. How about Glenn Anderson? Bernie Federko?

Here's the top 40 PPG's of all time. Lindros is a top 20 PPG player of all time. How many of the guys eligible aren't in the hall?

Wayne Gretzky
Mario Lemieux
Mike Bossy
Sidney Crosby
Bobby Orr
Marcel Dionne
Peter Stastny
Peter Forsberg
Kent Nilsson
Phil Esposito
Alexander Ovechkin
Evgeni Malkin
Jaromír Jágr
Guy Lafleur
Joe Sakic
Dale Hawerchuk
Pat Lafontaine
Steve Yzerman
Eric Lindros
Bernie Federko
Denis Savard
Jari Kurri
Bryan Trottier
Gilbert Perreault
Pavel Bure
Bobby Hull
Brett Hull
Paul Coffey
Jean Beliveau
Mark Messier
Bernie Nicholls
Mike Rogers
Adam Oates
Michel Goulet
Bobby Clarke
Stan Mikita
Gordie Howe
Alexander Mogilny
Zigmund Palffy
Ron Francis

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07-09-2013, 09:41 PM
  #105
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There's also a few female players in the HHOF over Lindros.

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07-09-2013, 10:07 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Dionne didn't win a Cup. That's not his fault, just like it isn't Lindros' fault. Dionne is still a HOFer.

Edit: If I'm not mistaken, Dionne actually has a record of disappointing playoff performances.
first of all I'm bust B's. i didn't say he needed a cup to get in i said he wasn't our best player in the finals that year. it was brindamour. it should've been him. he was at an insane level coming into that series and disappeared. I didn't know everyone took his going into the hall so seriously tho. He was an insanely dominate player for 5 years. but he also played another 5 years after the injuries that paled in comparison. I know it was from injuries but thats still part of his body of work. I'd be more mad that he isn't in the flyers hall of fame now since it was here that he was the best player in the league for a while. he'll get in the hof but they do factor in overall success. and as far as dionne goes, he didn't have success with those crap kings teams but a lot of individual scoring achievements. art ross, lady byng's (ha) and he's up in the top five or so in goals and points. that said, there is definitely some dudes in there that shouldn't be.

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07-10-2013, 01:49 AM
  #107
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My gut feeling says yes immediately. It also would be a nice gesture to induct him because he was a marvellous young player, the leader of Legion Of Doom, who only had trouble with concussions (and maybe looking up...). His junior career was outstanding and he was great in international tournaments. He was the clear subject of first line duty everywhere and when he played. An enigma.

Is Hakan Loob inducted?

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07-10-2013, 05:59 AM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
You're basically punishing him for not playing long enough, and it's already been determined that that isn't really something to knock someone over, unless you're willing to kick a few players out.
It has been determined by whom? Because you found a couple other players that got in with similar games played? Not the voters, that's for sure, otherwise he would be in (Whaaaa! It's because they don't like him!!!). I'm not punishing him for anything. He played great for parts of ten seasons or whatever, and average to below average for parts of four. He also has a ton of off-ice issues.

Quote:
Bobby Orr is 11th all time in points for Dmen, yet he's still considered the greatest offensive Dman to ever play. He's only 11th because other players put in over double his 657 game career to amass them. Top 25 after playing several seasons as a shell of himself is still really good.
Yes but again, with Bobby Orr he has multiple Hart Trophies and a thousand Norris Trophies and multiple Conn Smythe Trophies. Not to mention he is still #11 even with his low totals and the fact that it was thirty years ago. If Lindros was #11 in points, he'd be in, regardless of his games played.

Quote:
You really don't think a guy who is the 25th best point producer (Out of however many thousand players have come through the ages) over the course of his 760 game career (Definitely an adequate sample size) should be in the HOF? Those are some insanely strict standards.
I guess they are. The HOF should be strict...

Quote:
Edit: Ooooh, Desjardins is 39th and Timonen 48th. For Dman ppg.
Are you saying they should be in HOF? Because I absolutely wouldn't and I love both players.

Quote:
Edit 2: Mike Bossy is a HOFer. He has 8 less games played than Lindros. I'll start writing the HHOF to let them know he needs booting.
???Mike Bossy also has several hundred points more than Eric Lindros. But nevermind you are right. Let Lindros in. My opinion is not valid because you don't agree. He's only in because voters think he is a butthead.

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07-10-2013, 06:41 AM
  #109
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Had he remained healthy he would get in, but you don't get into the HHOF on potential... so, I would sadly say no.

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07-10-2013, 07:31 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by StandingCow View Post
Had he remained healthy he would get in, but you don't get into the HHOF on potential... so, I would sadly say no.
What is this potential you speak of?

He has a Hart, a Pearson, 2 post-season All Star selections, and has I think like the 19th highest PPG average in league history, much of that done in the DPE. He was arguably the most dominant forward of the 90's not named Jagr or Lemieux. That's HHOF stuff right there.

I understand his being a somewhat iffy case, but he's eventually in, it's pretty much a foregone conclusion at this point.

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07-10-2013, 07:49 AM
  #111
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Orr had a shortened career due to injuries, and I know he and his team one a Cup.
I think Lindros was a comparable player to Orr, in as much as the game changed when Eric was in the line up. Eric made the Flyers a better team, just as Bobby Orr made the Bruins a better team when he played.
The reason why Eric Lindros will probably be denied is that his team never won the Stanley Cup.
That is sad, because I think he should be honoured by being included to the historical greatest players to ever play hockey.

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07-10-2013, 07:49 AM
  #112
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The bottom line is that Lindros had an arguably better career than Bure & Neeley (both in the Hall).

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07-10-2013, 07:59 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Hiesenberg View Post
The bottom line is that Lindros had an arguably better career than Bure & Neeley (both in the Hall).
The key word there is arguably. Bure won multiple Rocket Richard trophies, scored 60 goals twice and 50 goals three times. Lindros never hit 50. While the 50 goal mark isn't necessarily something you have to have to get in, voters looking at Bure see flashier numbers in the goal department which is going to garner more consideration. Bure, while struggling with injuries, didn't struggle in the same way that Lindros struggled (Bure's career really was "cut short" overall, while Lindros's was more of a struggle simply to play 60 a year games for the majority of this career). As for Neely, like I said, he pretty much invented (or perfected) the power forward position. Every candidate is different. There is no brightline test to get in. Stats, era, impact on the game, issues on and off the ice, are all things that get considered.

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07-10-2013, 08:10 AM
  #114
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But at no point were either one of them considered the best player in the sport, let alone for the span of 5 years like Lindros was.

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07-10-2013, 08:22 AM
  #115
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Bure never won a Hart trophy, and you're wrong about his injury struggles being different than what happened to Lindros.

Bure played less than 60 games for five out of his 13 NHL seasons.
Lindros played less than 60 games for six out of his 14 NHL seasons.

Bure played 702 out of 1,032 possible regular season games in his career. That's 68%.
Lindros played 760 out of 1,114 possible regular season games in his career. Also 68%.

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07-10-2013, 08:28 AM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
The key word there is arguably. Bure won multiple Rocket Richard trophies, scored 60 goals twice and 50 goals three times. Lindros never hit 50. While the 50 goal mark isn't necessarily something you have to have to get in, voters looking at Bure see flashier numbers in the goal department which is going to garner more consideration. Bure, while struggling with injuries, didn't struggle in the same way that Lindros struggled (Bure's career really was "cut short" overall, while Lindros's was more of a struggle simply to play 60 a year games for the majority of this career). As for Neely, like I said, he pretty much invented (or perfected) the power forward position. Every candidate is different. There is no brightline test to get in. Stats, era, impact on the game, issues on and off the ice, are all things that get considered.
I really don't see how it's arguable. Both played less games than Lindros, had less points, and were never considered the best player in the league. Bure scored a ton of goals no doubt, and that's why he's in, but Lindors had a higher goals per game than Bure had assists per game. He was a one dimensional player, Lindros was not.

It's incomprehensible to me how you are not able to see that there are almost no comparable players to Lindros when multiple people are pointing it out to you.

EDIT: Look, people's argument to keep him out is based off the fact that they say he was potential that wasn't realized. That's true, but you have to understand the fact that his potential was to be one of the best players of all time, and not simply a 1st line, PPG center. The fact that it's even arguable after only 760 games should show you how much of a force he was. It should make you think well maybe there was something special about this guy that makes him good enough to be an exception to the rule.


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07-10-2013, 09:15 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Protest View Post
I really don't see how it's arguable. Both played less games than Lindros, had less points, and were never considered the best player in the league. Bure scored a ton of goals no doubt, and that's why he's in, but Lindors had a higher goals per game than Bure had assists per game. He was a one dimensional player, Lindros was not.

It's incomprehensible to me how you are not able to see that there are almost no comparable players to Lindros when multiple people are pointing it out to you.

EDIT: Look, people's argument to keep him out is based off the fact that they say he was potential that wasn't realized. That's true, but you have to understand the fact that his potential was to be one of the best players of all time, and not simply a 1st line, PPG center. The fact that it's even arguable after only 760 games should show you how much of a force he was. It should make you think well maybe there was something special about this guy that makes him good enough to be an exception to the rule.
I'm not saying that Lindros wasn't a great player. He was. But IMO he was not HOF worthy. As I said in earlier posts, if Neely and Bure were up for the Hall this year, I would probably be making similar arguments against them as well. The fact that they got in doesn't mean automatically that Lindros gets in. Every single player is a different scenario. Points don't tell the whole story. PPG doesn't tell the whole story.

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07-10-2013, 09:15 AM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
Bure never won a Hart trophy, and you're wrong about his injury struggles being different than what happened to Lindros.

Bure played less than 60 games for five out of his 13 NHL seasons.
Lindros played less than 60 games for six out of his 14 NHL seasons.

Bure played 702 out of 1,032 possible regular season games in his career. That's 68%.
Lindros played 760 out of 1,114 possible regular season games in his career. Also 68%.
Yeah I think both of our maths are off. I originally counted 11 seasons, you have counted 13. It looks like he actually played in 12 parts. Haha.

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07-10-2013, 10:35 AM
  #119
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Yes he is worthy. Easily. Its only up for debate because people like to regurgitate stuff.

Yeah he wasnt the next Gretzky, skill wise or personality wise, that doesnt mean ****. He dominated the game at times, coaches threw Samuelssons, Beukebooms, Tikkanens and straight up enforcers at him. They would hook, elbow, slash, knee him. People did stuff that would have gotten them 25+ game long suspensions in todays hockey and still he produced.

1 player cant win a cup. He made players like Zubrus, Renberg and others into much better players than they actually were. Longevity and charisma shouldnt be an issue. He battled injuries best he could and its the Hockey HoF not the Bachelor, you dont have to marry him, just respect what he did.

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07-10-2013, 11:43 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Yeah I think both of our maths are off. I originally counted 11 seasons, you have counted 13. It looks like he actually played in 12 parts. Haha.
It says contract dispute on Wikipedia, but I don't think Lindros was healthy for the 2000-2001 season, so I'm counting him as missing the entire season. It was one of the 14 NHL seasons played between his rookie year, 92-93 and his last season, 06-07.

Bure you're right that Bure only played 12 seasons, and his percentage was actually 73.8%.


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07-10-2013, 12:00 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
It says contract dispute on Wikipedia, but I don't think Lindros was healthy for the 2000-2001 season, so I'm counting him as missing the entire season. It was one of the 14 NHL seasons played between his rookie year, 92-93 and his last season, 06-07.

Bure you're right that Bure only played 12 seasons, and his percentage was actually 73.8%.
Yeah I'll go back on what I said about the injuries being different. They were pretty much the same. I stand by everything else I said though. Haha.

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07-10-2013, 12:03 PM
  #122
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I just think Bure and Neely being in but not Lindros is unfair. But I think Eric will get in eventually.

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07-10-2013, 12:04 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
I just think Bure and Neely being in but not Lindros is unfair. But I think Eric will get in eventually.
I'm sure he probably will, I just don't think he should. Like I've been saying. If he gets in I won't complain, but if it were me voting, he wouldn't get my vote.

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07-10-2013, 12:08 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I'm sure he probably will, I just don't think he should. Like I've been saying. If he gets in I won't complain, but if it were me voting, he wouldn't get my vote.
It sounds like, by your standards, there would be very few people in the HOF outside of guys like Gretzky, Orr, Mario, Howe, and the Rocket.

However, your standards aren't the ones used by the HOF.

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07-10-2013, 12:34 PM
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I'm not saying that Lindros wasn't a great player. He was. But IMO he was not HOF worthy. As I said in earlier posts, if Neely and Bure were up for the Hall this year, I would probably be making similar arguments against them as well. The fact that they got in doesn't mean automatically that Lindros gets in. Every single player is a different scenario. Points don't tell the whole story. PPG doesn't tell the whole story.
So do you think Forsberg should be in?

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