HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Notices

Part IX: Free Agency Signing Period Discussion and Rumors

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-10-2013, 12:53 PM
  #501
Curufinwe
Registered User
 
Curufinwe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,127
vCash: 500
He played worse than some of the AHL call ups, maybe because the coaches were trying to have him do too much out there. I don't want to trade him, and I think his contract was justifiable at the time it was signed, but he had a really bad season.

Curufinwe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2013, 12:53 PM
  #502
hockeyfreak7
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Charlottesville
Posts: 5,953
vCash: 500
Coburn is easily a 4.5m defender. Bieksa, Volchenkov, Tyutin, etc. all make that kind of money, and Coburn is every bit as good as them. He had a down year, but his entire body of play before has been worthy of his contract even with his frustrating inconsistency.

hockeyfreak7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2013, 12:54 PM
  #503
StevensCakeBakerBacker
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Country:
Posts: 1,226
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Homer has a bit of a history of overpaying players before they're ready in the hope that they turn into something that makes the deal a bargain. Coburn and JVR are examples. Coburn was a miss, JVR might work out.
One good season, or postseason, and people will change their tune about Coburn.

Holmgren might seemingly overpay on player contracts, but what has it ever prevented the franchise from doing? From what I can see, the Flyers do whatever they damn well please. The only time I remember the cap forcing the Flyers to make a bad move, was the Carcillo to Coyotes deal. But, that was to keep Giroux on the big club... That seems like a good sacrifice to me.

StevensCakeBakerBacker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2013, 12:56 PM
  #504
Curufinwe
Registered User
 
Curufinwe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,127
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
Coburn is easily a 4.5m defender. Bieksa, Volchenkov, Tyutin, etc. all make that kind of money, and Coburn is every bit as good as them. He had a down year, but his entire body of play before has been worthy of his contract even with his frustrating inconsistency.
Here are some of the other defenders with that type of cap hit.

http://www.capgeek.com/comparables/?player_id=747

Curufinwe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2013, 12:58 PM
  #505
flyershockey
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,339
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by StevensCakeBakerBacker View Post
One good season, or postseason, and people will change their tune about Coburn.

Holmgren might seemingly overpay on player contracts, but what has it ever prevented the franchise from doing? From what I can see, the Flyers do whatever they damn well please. The only time I remember the cap forcing the Flyers to make a bad move, was the Carcillo to Coyotes deal. But, that was to keep Giroux on the big club... That seems like a good sacrifice to me.
You think you could get the details right about the worst deal ever made in franchise history. The Flyers traded Upshall and a 2nd for Carcillo.

flyershockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2013, 12:58 PM
  #506
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 13,870
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by StevensCakeBakerBacker View Post
One good season, or postseason, and people will change their tune about Coburn.

Holmgren might seemingly overpay on player contracts, but what has it ever prevented the franchise from doing? From what I can see, the Flyers do whatever they damn well please. The only time I remember the cap forcing the Flyers to make a bad move, was the Carcillo to Coyotes deal. But, that was to keep Giroux on the big club... That seems like a good sacrifice to me.
Wasn't that the Carcillo from the Coyotes deal for Upshall?

Then again, of course the boards here were ready to riot at that...

Anyway, Coburn was not as bad as people here seem to believe. The legend of Coburn's season is becoming a ridiculous fish story.

Not only do advanced statistics demonstrate that he was not nearly that bad, vision tests declare that he wasn't that bad. In fact, the fact that other GMs want him should be a CLEAR and DECISIVE indication that he wasn't that bad.

It's incredible how much this fish story keeps snowballing.

CS is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2013, 12:59 PM
  #507
RJ8812
Gunner Stahl #9
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Sudbury
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,899
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by StevensCakeBakerBacker View Post
One good season, or postseason, and people will change their tune about Coburn.

Holmgren might seemingly overpay on player contracts, but what has it ever prevented the franchise from doing? From what I can see, the Flyers do whatever they damn well please. The only time I remember the cap forcing the Flyers to make a bad move, was the Carcillo to Coyotes deal. But, that was to keep Giroux on the big club... That seems like a good sacrifice to me.
Gagne for Walker...to make room for Mez

RJ8812 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2013, 01:12 PM
  #508
StevensCakeBakerBacker
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Country:
Posts: 1,226
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CS View Post
Wasn't that the Carcillo from the Coyotes deal for Upshall?

Then again, of course the boards here were ready to riot at that...

Anyway, Coburn was not as bad as people here seem to believe. The legend of Coburn's season is becoming a ridiculous fish story.

Not only do advanced statistics demonstrate that he was not nearly that bad, vision tests declare that he wasn't that bad. In fact, the fact that other GMs want him should be a CLEAR and DECISIVE indication that he wasn't that bad.

It's incredible how much this fish story keeps snowballing.
Yes, I meant Carcillo from the Coyotes for Upshall. Doing too much at once! But, you get the point.

To hell with statistics, Coburn was brutal last year. I think Coburn is much better than he played last year, but he was awful.

StevensCakeBakerBacker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2013, 01:13 PM
  #509
Curufinwe
Registered User
 
Curufinwe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,127
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CS View Post
Anyway, Coburn was not as bad as people here seem to believe. The legend of Coburn's season is becoming a ridiculous fish story.

Not only do advanced statistics demonstrate that he was not nearly that bad, vision tests declare that he wasn't that bad. In fact, the fact that other GMs want him should be a CLEAR and DECISIVE indication that he wasn't that bad.

It's incredible how much this fish story keeps snowballing.
He led all NHL defensemen in minor penalties per game, had 5 points and was -10.

Curufinwe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2013, 01:19 PM
  #510
lancer247
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,878
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
He led all NHL defensemen in minor penalties per game, had 5 points and was -10.
Kimmo was #2 or #3, IIRC. Let's package them together.

Relax. He had 1 bad 1/2 season.

lancer247 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2013, 01:20 PM
  #511
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 13,870
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
He led all NHL defensemen in minor penalties per game, had 5 points and was -10.
He was also asked to be the lead defenseman with even worse partners while leading our entire defense in minutes playing against tough competition in front of AHL caliber goaltending while remaining among the top 30 defensemen in Corsi Rel QoC for the first half of the year until he took a nose dive in the second half when defensive injuries started to pile up.

CS is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2013, 01:30 PM
  #512
Curufinwe
Registered User
 
Curufinwe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,127
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by lancer247 View Post
Kimmo was #2 or #3, IIRC.
Kimmo took a lot of those penalties when he got caught standing still and used his stick to try and slow the guy down. He also gave up at least two penalty shots.

Curufinwe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2013, 01:31 PM
  #513
McNasty
Registered User
 
McNasty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Rutgers
Country: United States
Posts: 5,483
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by lancer247 View Post
Kimmo was #2 or #3, IIRC. Let's package them together.

Relax. He had 1 bad 1/2 season.
Coburn has the foot speed where if he's taking those obstruction penalties its either laziness or stupidity.

McNasty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2013, 01:34 PM
  #514
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 13,870
vCash: 500
Btw, this was our defensive stat line as of March 12th, 2013:

Quote:
Originally Posted by CS View Post
PK%
1. Boston - 92.3
2. Ottawa - 89.5
3. San Jose - 86.8
4. Minnesota - 86.5
5. Columbus - 85.7
...
11. Philadelphia - 83.3
--. New York (R) - 83.3


BLOCKED SHOTS
1. New York (R) - 237
2. Philadelphia - 227

3. Phoenix - 223
4. San Jose - 222
-. New York (I) - 222

HITS
1. Toronto - 814
2. Philadelphia - 764
3. Los Angeles - 724
4. New York (R) - 723
5. Ottawa - 678

GA/G
1. Ottawa - 1.96
2. Chicago - 2.12
3. Boston - 2.13
4. Nashville - 2.24
5. San Jose - 2.25
6. New York (R) - 2.33
...
23. Philadelphia - 3.00


----------------------------------

POINTS
1. Letang - 26
2. Timonen - 19
-. Shattenkirk - 19
4. Subban - 18
-. Kronwall - 18
-. Suter - 18
...
68. Schenn - 7
102. Coburn - 5
122. Grossmann - 4


HITS
1. Schenn - 103
2. Emelin - 88
3. Fraser - 79
4. Smid - 77
5. Phaneuf - 75
6. Grossmann - 72
...
15. Coburn - 58
118. Timonen - 20


BLOCKED SHOTS
1. Grossmann - 77
2. Orpik - 72
3. Smid - 70
-. Zanon - 70
4. MacDonald - 68
-. Michalek - 68
...
22. Coburn - 52
28. Schenn - 49
36. Timonen - 45


TOI/G
1. Suter - 27:29
2. Karlsson - 27:03
3. J. Johnson - 26:24
4. Doughty - 26:18
5. Campbell - 26:14
...
50. Coburn - 22:45
81. Timonen - 21:07
106. Schenn - 19:58

(139.) Meszaros - 18:13 (6 GP)
141. Grossmann - 18:04
(144.) Gustafsson - 18:01 (11 GP)

CORSI REL QoC >20GP
1. Ekman-Larson - 2.132
2. Michalek - 2.111
3. Phaneuf - 2.071
4. Boychuk - 1.996
5. S. Weber - 1.973
6. Hjalmarsson - 1.909
7. Chara - 1.808
8. Oduya - 1.772
9. Giordano - 1.741
10. Bouwmeester - 1.656
...
22. Coburn - 1.013
23. Schenn - 1.011
27. Timonen - 0.963
32. Grossmann - 0.897
Coburn was...
102nd in points
15th in hits
22nd in blocked shots
50th in TOI/G
22nd in Rel CORSI

CS is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2013, 01:56 PM
  #515
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 13,870
vCash: 500
At that point Coburn played 27 games...

So Coburn, who finished the season with 33 games, only played in 6 more contests. In those 6 games he got...

18 more hits
9 more blocked shots
1 more point

He also dropped from an awesome 1.103 CORSI to a 0.773 CORSI...

So he sucked defensively.

To finish off the season in the QoC based CORSI comparison...

Schenn improved from 1.011 to 1.320 to close out the season through 21 more games, Timonen improved from 0.963 to 1.279 to close out his season through 18 more games, and Grossmann regressed from 0.897 to 0.767 to close out his season through 3 more games.

CS is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2013, 02:12 PM
  #516
Hiesenberg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Country: United States
Posts: 3,047
vCash: 491
Bottom line, if Grossman & Coburn played the rest of the year healthy, the Flyers would've been better off.

Hiesenberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2013, 02:27 PM
  #517
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 13,870
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiesenberg View Post
Bottom line, if Grossman & Coburn played the rest of the year healthy, the Flyers would've been better off.
Particularly with competent goaltending.

We didn't acquire Mason until April 3rd, at which point there were only 12 games left in the season. Coburn had already been out for 3 games and Grossmann had been out for 6.

Mason played in 7 of those games posting a 4-2-0 record along with a no decision. He faced 203 shots (an average of 29 per game), and recorded a 0.941 SV%.

Bryzgaloved played in 6 of those games posting a 3-3-0 record. He faced 157 shots (an average of 26 per game), and recorded a 0.904 SV%.

CS is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2013, 02:33 PM
  #518
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 13,870
vCash: 500
So behind our **** defense to close out the season, we averaged roughly 27.5 shots against per game.

Through the course of a 41 game season (basic split per goaltender), that's 1,128 shots.

Mason, in this mythological scenario, was on pace to save 1,065 of them giving up 63 goals or 1.50 goals per game.

Bryzgalov was on pace to 1,020 of them giving up 108 goals or 1.63 goals per game.


Do I need to keep beating the Bryzgalov horse or can we all just agree he sucks now?

CS is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2013, 02:34 PM
  #519
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 13,870
vCash: 500
Err, I meant 2.63 goals against per game for Bryzgalov.

CS is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2013, 02:36 PM
  #520
Hiesenberg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Country: United States
Posts: 3,047
vCash: 491
Quote:
Originally Posted by CS View Post
Err, I meant 2.63 goals against per game for Bryzgalov.
lol. I was about to say 1.63 is pretty good man.

Hiesenberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2013, 02:37 PM
  #521
kudymen
4, 15, 38 and 63
 
kudymen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Atlanta (Decatur)
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 3,002
vCash: 500
Meanwhile...

Dave Isaac ‏@davegisaac 2m
#Flyers announce they've signed RFA defenseman @greatdane25 to a two-year deal.

kudymen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2013, 02:37 PM
  #522
SolidSnakeUS
Registered User
 
SolidSnakeUS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Pipersville, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 27,967
vCash: 500
Cool. Good for him .

SolidSnakeUS is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2013, 02:39 PM
  #523
BackWithaVengeance
Registered User
 
BackWithaVengeance's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Good old Europe
Posts: 899
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by kudymen View Post
Dave Isaac ‏@davegisaac 2m
#Flyers announce they've signed RFA defenseman @greatdane25 to a two-year deal.
http://flyers.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=677537

BackWithaVengeance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2013, 02:40 PM
  #524
Hiesenberg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Country: United States
Posts: 3,047
vCash: 491
Starting to get real close to that 10% overage cap.

Something is going to break real soon here, whether its just a nothing trade to shed money or what.

Hiesenberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2013, 02:40 PM
  #525
DrinkFightFlyers
Grave Before Shave
 
DrinkFightFlyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 11,694
vCash: 50
Send a message via AIM to DrinkFightFlyers
Quote:
Originally Posted by kudymen View Post
Dave Isaac ‏@davegisaac 2m
#Flyers announce they've signed RFA defenseman @greatdane25 to a two-year deal.
Cool tapes. Not surprising. I'm gonna guess 750k two year deal (maybe 125k in AHL?).

DrinkFightFlyers is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:11 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.