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Old
07-10-2013, 02:10 PM
  #76
Blueline Bomber
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Originally Posted by Championship View Post
Read Brooks. Staal's eye will be fine.
I'd rather listen to Staal himself, who said his eye would never be the same.

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Old
07-10-2013, 03:07 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by StormCast View Post
Faulk acquitted himself very well in a shutdown role as a 20 year-old and is only getting better. If you're basing your observation only on his WC outings, then you're arguing from a very limited sample.

His offensive game, though still improving, is already ahead of Staal's and he is a coveted RHD. His contract is better and his D game will be very close to Staal's in the not too distant future. Thus the trade makes little sense.
This is where you go off the rails. He will never provide the physical presence that Marc does. He will never have the reach that Marc has. Marc is rangy and great on his edges and jumps into the play with great effectiveness (underrated part of his game). Again, he has done it for years. Faulk has not. Skills do not necessarily equal performance and so all of your forward looking assessments are just that; assessments. You are right, the trade makes little sense, to the Rangers.

And for the record, I watched probably 5 to 10 Canes games last year and nobody on that defense shut down anything. I didn't watch Faulk specifically like I did in the WCs because he was on my team in that tourney, but he did not stand out defensively. So, compared to the rest of your D, Faulk looked great. But big fish in a little pond does not make a Marc Staal comparable.

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07-10-2013, 03:33 PM
  #78
StormCast
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Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
This is where you go off the rails. He will never provide the physical presence that Marc does. He will never have the reach that Marc has. Marc is rangy and great on his edges and jumps into the play with great effectiveness (underrated part of his game). Again, he has done it for years. Faulk has not. Skills do not necessarily equal performance and so all of your forward looking assessments are just that; assessments. You are right, the trade makes little sense, to the Rangers.

And for the record, I watched probably 5 to 10 Canes games last year and nobody on that defense shut down anything. I didn't watch Faulk specifically like I did in the WCs because he was on my team in that tourney, but he did not stand out defensively. So, compared to the rest of your D, Faulk looked great. But big fish in a little pond does not make a Marc Staal comparable.
Correct, Faulk doesn't have and will never have Staal's reach. But, of course, there are a number of attributes that make for a good Dman. Faulk has very good gap control and is an outstanding skater, much better than Staal. He reads angles well and can pass or skate his way out of trouble. Given his age and progress to date there is no reason to believe he won't continue to improve. No guarantee but hardly a stretch.

I'd suggest you pay closer attention to Faulk in terms of physical play. He's not going to stand out like a Phaneuf or Chara in terms of physical style but the guy is plenty physical. Over the last couple of years, the most notable physical D here has been Bryan Allen. Faulk on average outhit Allen but would not take himself out of position to do so. Most people think of him as a small PMD but the guy is like a fire hydrant and plenty physical.

In terms of a shutdown role, who is there to help Faulk? Answer, not much. The Ranger D corps is much deeper and has two pairs that can play in a shutdown capacity vs. just one player in Carolina. In fact, despite the contention otherwise, Staal hasn't even played the toughest minutes for the NYR over the last couple of years. Yes, he's been hurt but in terms of future production, who knows how the eye will hinder him.

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Old
07-10-2013, 03:48 PM
  #79
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The package offered by the thread starter is not enough for Staal. Tlusty--one good season, Lowe--a B level prospect--potential bottom pairing d-man and a 3rd rounder?--most 3rd rounders don't amount to much. I don't why people think they're giving up something that valuable.

As a Rangers fan I'd gladly take the chance that Marc will rebound at least close to form. Is he untradeable?--no but you'll have to come up with something better than that.


Last edited by eco's bones: 07-10-2013 at 03:54 PM.
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Old
07-10-2013, 04:37 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by dumpin View Post
Be gentile guys this is my first attempt at this..

To NY
Jiri Tlusty
Keegan Lowe
3rd round pick 2014

To Carolina
M. Staal

NY frees up some cap space, gets a decent winger, a prospect/pick. While Carolina unites the Staal clan and picks up a very good D man.

Show me the error of my ways.
Personally, I think the OP favors the canes somewhat, value wise. Take out Lowe and change the 3rd to at least a 2nd, maybe even a 1st (Staal is a stud, Tlusty is emerging but not fully proven) and the value seems more even.

Let's confuse matters some. Would you consider adding in a third party?

NYR get choice of Joe Pavelski/Dan Boyle (at 4 M cap) + Canes 1st (2014)
Canes Get M Staal + SJ 3rd (2014)
San Jose gets Danny Kristo + Jiri Tlusty

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Old
07-10-2013, 05:37 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
I'd rather listen to Staal himself, who said his eye would never be the same.
And then he said he'd be able to get back to playing at 100% of where he was. Nice deletion of that part. He'll be fine. Can't wait to have him in our top 4 next year.

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07-10-2013, 10:05 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Nolan11 View Post
Personally, I think the OP favors the canes somewhat, value wise. Take out Lowe and change the 3rd to at least a 2nd, maybe even a 1st (Staal is a stud, Tlusty is emerging but not fully proven) and the value seems more even.

Let's confuse matters some. Would you consider adding in a third party?

NYR get choice of Joe Pavelski/Dan Boyle (at 4 M cap) + Canes 1st (2014)
Canes Get M Staal + SJ 3rd (2014)
San Jose gets Danny Kristo + Jiri Tlusty
Nolan I have been a hard core Ranger fan since the early 60's, but I tried to factor everything into the proposal.

Should the 3rd be a 2nd, probably. Should the Rangers get a better prospect than Lowe, maybe. Tlusty a one shot wonder , thats the gamble. Is Staal coming back from his injury at 100%.. If he is healthy , his trade value increases exponentially.

I again emphasize that I was taking the cap money saved as an important part of the deal..Remember, the original proposal was before any of the Ranger's RFAs signed. If the Rangers have to let someone walk (like MZA) because of cap limits, this proposal is like adding MZA to the deal. Finally, I also believe that the Rangers would be dealing from an area of strength (D) and adding sorely needed scoring.

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Old
07-10-2013, 10:27 PM
  #83
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The original offer is not enough for Staal.. Canes don't want to move Faulk.. so it really only leaves Skinner, not sure the Rangers want to do that though..

Personally, I'll be just ok with Staal playing top shutdown minutes next year for us.

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Old
07-11-2013, 01:43 AM
  #84
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Canes fan saying Faulk won't reach Staals level. He's a solid young d, but canes fans have gone too far with his expectations. His biggest attribute has been surviving being thrown in the deep end with little experience and little help. He's a gamer, and a jack of all trades. He's no shut down stud or pp qb.

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Old
07-11-2013, 08:15 AM
  #85
eco's bones
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dumpin View Post
Nolan I have been a hard core Ranger fan since the early 60's, but I tried to factor everything into the proposal.

Should the 3rd be a 2nd, probably. Should the Rangers get a better prospect than Lowe, maybe. Tlusty a one shot wonder , thats the gamble. Is Staal coming back from his injury at 100%.. If he is healthy , his trade value increases exponentially.

I again emphasize that I was taking the cap money saved as an important part of the deal..Remember, the original proposal was before any of the Ranger's RFAs signed. If the Rangers have to let someone walk (like MZA) because of cap limits, this proposal is like adding MZA to the deal. Finally, I also believe that the Rangers would be dealing from an area of strength (D) and adding sorely needed scoring.
If the Rangers were worried about freeing up cap space they would have walked away from the Richards contract. IMO--they should have. Even so they should have enough money left for both Stepan and Zuccarello and choosing between Zuccarello + Tlusty I'd still prefer Staal. Rangers do have a glut on left side--Staal, McDonagh, Del Zotto and Moore. If we were moving one of them I would probably try to move Del Zotto--who doesn't seem able to push his offense much past the 40 point plateau and is only average in his own end. Putting Del Zotto in play would probably bring us back something pretty decent--a young 2nd liner who hasn't fully hit his stride for example.

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Old
07-11-2013, 11:00 AM
  #86
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all parties would be better served by letting Marc Staal play out a full season before talking about trading him/acquiring him. We don't really know what he is right now.

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Old
07-11-2013, 11:06 AM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
The original offer is not enough for Staal.. Canes don't want to move Faulk.. so it really only leaves Skinner, not sure the Rangers want to do that though..

Personally, I'll be just ok with Staal playing top shutdown minutes next year for us.
Pref. not on Skinner, but we should consider 3rd team combos if that works.
Staal to CAR
Skinner to 3rd team (Montreal?)
acceptable return to NYR

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