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Trade and Proposals Thread XXXVI: MacT, send more help!

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07-10-2013, 02:27 PM
  #351
OilerFan4Life
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Originally Posted by Moose Coleman View Post
I can. Again: he's a year away from UFA. They'll be lucky if they get draft picks and middling prospects for him.
Please give me an example of a 40 goal scorer in his prime dealt 1 year from UFA for "draft picks and middling prospects". Please do.

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07-10-2013, 02:29 PM
  #352
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Originally Posted by oilexport View Post
Smyth and Horcoff take penalties that hurt the team, hooking and tripping....

Eager and Brown take penalties that hurt THE OTHER team, like smashing thier defence through the end of the boards.
Oh so the penalties that don't put your team down two minutes? Oh wait: those don't exist.

Quote:
They also give our goal scorers room and prevent them from getting shoulder surgeries...
Not sure if serious....

Anyway, just FYI here are Mike Brown's penalties as an Oiler (excluding fighting majors): High sticking, tripping, roughing, high-sticking, 10 minute misconduct.

Ben Eager: Holding , tripping, slashing, high sticking, boarding.

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07-10-2013, 02:30 PM
  #353
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I'm not a big Smyth fan either at this stage but it all comes down to how he's utilized by Eakins. If he's the utility #13 forward who comes in when there are injuries (and yes there are always injuries)... then in a reduced minutes 4th line type role, he's going to be ok on the team.

I agree he was signed 1 year too long but it is what it is. He obviously signed a contract that the Oilers management agreed to and I assume he'll play out that contract. Hopefully if he's truly awful, Eakins keeps him off the roster or he simply retires... but I'm actually optimistic that he'll do ok in a very limited utility role.

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07-10-2013, 02:30 PM
  #354
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Hemsky + Maracinin + Rajala + 2014 2nd (1st if resigns top 5 protected) for Vanek

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07-10-2013, 02:30 PM
  #355
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Originally Posted by OilerFan4Life View Post
Please give me an example of a 40 goal scorer in his prime dealt 1 year from UFA for "draft picks and middling prospects". Please do.
Please remind me of a time when a team was looking to move out a 7M player that doesn't want to be there anymore when the cap just dropped.

It's a bad time for Buffalo to have to move their priciest players. But their other option is to watch them walk for nothing. Perhaps they can get a better deal at the deadline, but the 1st they get for him then would almost certainly be 15 or later.

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07-10-2013, 02:30 PM
  #356
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Originally Posted by Baggers View Post
I agree. There are "good penalties" and "bad penalties" in hockey - which I'm sure a lot of the posters on this board who have played hockey to a decent level would agree.

Hooking/tripping penalties are generally last resort penalties. If you're committing a lot of them, chances are you can't play hockey anymore at the level you are attempting to.
Thank-you, Clowe, Harnell and all the players we want have higher Penalty mins then Smyth or Horcoff. The fighting, roughing and those sorts of penalties are somewhat valuable.

The penalties Smyth and Horcoff took was because they can't keep up to the play.

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07-10-2013, 02:32 PM
  #357
SK13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OilerFan4Life View Post
Please give me an example of a 40 goal scorer in his prime dealt 1 year from UFA for "draft picks and middling prospects". Please do.
30 goal scorer is more of an accurate reflection of what he has been recently. And examples? Kovalchuk, Hossa, Iginla...

It'd probably cost your first and more, but it wouldn't cost Paajarvi, Klefbom, etc. Not with one year left, and not with that year being an inflated cap hit.

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07-10-2013, 02:34 PM
  #358
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Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
Please remind me of a time when a team was looking to move out a 7M player that doesn't want to be there anymore when the cap just dropped.

It's a bad time for Buffalo to have to move their priciest players. But their other option is to watch them walk for nothing. Perhaps they can get a better deal at the deadline, but the 1st they get for him then would almost certainly be 15 or later.
Bro, I'm not the one advocating that they move him now. Like I've said THREE times now....they should move him at the TDD.

And let's clarify a few things here folks.

1) He has NEVER publically asked for a trade.
2) He does not have a NTC/NMC


Again, spin it how you want....Sir Thomas will not be dealt for anything less than an elite return.

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07-10-2013, 02:34 PM
  #359
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Originally Posted by nexttothemoon View Post
I'm not a big Smyth fan either at this stage but it all comes down to how he's utilized by Eakins. If he's the utility #13 forward who comes in when there are injuries (and yes there are always injuries)... then in a reduced minutes 4th line type role, he's going to be ok on the team.

I agree he was signed 1 year too long but it is what it is. He obviously signed a contract that the Oilers management agreed to and I assume he'll play out that contract. Hopefully if he's truly awful, Eakins keeps him off the roster or he simply retires... but I'm actually optimistic that he'll do ok in a very limited utility role.
I agree with you... give him a few "energy" shifts per game and he'd probably be ok... you could even trot him out on the powerplay and let him stand in front of the net like the old days. I don't understand why he can't still bang/tip in 10 goals from in front and drive the opposing goalie crazy. Andreychuk did it practically into his 40s and he was a far worse skater than Smytty.

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07-10-2013, 02:35 PM
  #360
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Originally Posted by OilerFan4Life View Post
Please give me an example of a 40 goal scorer in his prime dealt 1 year from UFA for "draft picks and middling prospects". Please do.
Uh: can you name any 40 goal scorers in their prime who were dealt one year from UFA?

Ottawa just got Bobby Ryan, who has two years on a cap-friendly $5M contract for some decent prospects and a pick. You expect me to believe a player with a more expensive deal that is on the verge of expiring would get more?

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07-10-2013, 02:36 PM
  #361
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Originally Posted by SK13 View Post
30 goal scorer is more of an accurate reflection of what he has been recently. And examples? Kovalchuk, Hossa, Iginla...

It'd probably cost your first and more, but it wouldn't cost Paajarvi, Klefbom, etc. Not with one year left, and not with that year being an inflated cap hit.
Iginla was past his prime.

Hossa was dealt for Danny Heatley, who at the time was a superstar.

Kovalchuk was dealt for Oduya (a 27 year old, in his prime, top 4 d-man), Bergfors (at the time the Devils top prospect), Cormier (another top prospect in the Devils organization), and a 1st. Cormier could have been called a middling prospect...Bergfors was considered can't miss.


Again, I'll ask....give me one example of a 40 goal scorer in his prime dealt for "picks" and "middling prospects".

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07-10-2013, 02:36 PM
  #362
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Originally Posted by OnTheBrink View Post
Hemsky + Maracinin + Rajala + 2014 2nd (1st if resigns top 5 protected) for Vanek
Why would a rebuilding BUF team want Hemsky when he's not half the player as Vanek at a similar price?? That would be crazy on BUF's part...

Unfortunately, MacT is left holding the smelly Hemsky bag, and if he retains a few million $$$ in salary he'll be able to get a mid round pick or another fringe NHL'er for him..

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07-10-2013, 02:37 PM
  #363
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Originally Posted by oilexport View Post
Thank-you, Clowe, Harnell and all the players we want have higher Penalty mins then Smyth or Horcoff. The fighting, roughing and those sorts of penalties are somewhat valuable.

The penalties Smyth and Horcoff took was because they can't keep up to the play.
Huh? Horc took most of his penalties in the span of 7 games. His numbers have always been low in that regard. I don't think that's one of his problems.

Smyth meanwhile, can't keep up with the play, but took a huge portions of his penalties in the offensive zone. It's not even like he kept get caught hooking people who beat him wide, he just does stupid **** for no reason and gets caught.

By far the most frustrating thing about him right now.

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07-10-2013, 02:37 PM
  #364
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moose Coleman View Post
Uh: can you name any 40 goal scorers in their prime who were dealt one year from UFA?

Ottawa just got Bobby Ryan, who has two years on a cap-friendly $5M contract for some decent prospects and a pick. You expect me to believe a player with a more expensive deal that is on the verge of expiring would get more?
Ryan was dealt for a similar package to what I presented. A 1st, good young roster player, and a top prospect/former 1st round pick.

Again, you're making my argument for me. So, thanks.

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07-10-2013, 02:39 PM
  #365
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moose Coleman View Post
Uh: can you name any 40 goal scorers in their prime who were dealt one year from UFA?

Ottawa just got Bobby Ryan, who has two years on a cap-friendly $5M contract for some decent prospects and a pick. You expect me to believe a player with a more expensive deal that is on the verge of expiring would get more?
Difference being that OTT is a team that gets s*** done..

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07-10-2013, 02:39 PM
  #366
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nevermind

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07-10-2013, 02:41 PM
  #367
SK13
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Originally Posted by OilerFan4Life View Post
Iginla was past his prime.
The quality of the prospects Calgary got in return was pretty laughable, but the trade itself always looks pretty similar in formula.

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Hossa was dealt for Danny Heatley, who at the time was a superstar.
That wasn't Hossa's UFA deal. He got traded from Atlanta to Pittsburgh for... oh yeah, a first round pick and some prospects.

Quote:
Kovalchuk was dealt for Oduya (a 27 year old, in his prime, top 4 d-man), Bergfors (at the time the Devils top prospect), Cormier (another top prospect in the Devils organization), and a 1st. Cormier could have been called a middling prospect...Bergfors was considered can't miss.
Oduya as a top-4 D is pretty questionable. Bergfors was struggling, Cormier was coming off a season long suspension and a first round pick. None of these names were as highly regarded at the time as Oscar Klefbom AFAIC.

Quote:
Again, I'll ask....give me one example of a 40 goal scorer in his prime dealt for "picks" and "middling prospects".
Vanek isn't a 40 goal scorer right now. Stop saying that.

He won't be traded for middling prospects, but he won't get the return you're talking about from anyone. You're looking at B-tier prospects and a first round pick at the trade deadline. Another name is Rick Nash, but I don't think they'll get a roster player back like Columbus got Dubinsky because Nash had a contract.

Lesser players have trade value that far exceeds his because his caphit for this season blows and he's a UFA this summer.

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07-10-2013, 02:42 PM
  #368
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Buffalo will probably get some conditional picks and some good prospects for Vanek. 3rd rounders if he doesn't re-sign, 1st rounder(s) if he does.

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07-10-2013, 02:43 PM
  #369
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Originally Posted by SK13 View Post
Huh? Horc took most of his penalties in the span of 7 games. His numbers have always been low in that regard. I don't think that's one of his problems.

Smyth meanwhile, can't keep up with the play, but took a huge portions of his penalties in the offensive zone. It's not even like he kept get caught hooking people who beat him wide, he just does stupid **** for no reason and gets caught.

By far the most frustrating thing about him right now.
Horc took lots of penalties late in the game which i recall costed us critical points. He's lost energy and skill and I'm glad he's gone.

I do not mean to disrespect these guys cause they were good hockey players in thier prime but they are done. Horc is done as an effective regular player. If you spot them with limited ice, they can be effective.

After Horc's injury(and speech to the team) last year, he was very good for 3-4 games, after that the tank went dry...

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07-10-2013, 02:45 PM
  #370
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You guys think I'm out to lunch.

I believe you guys are out to lunch.

The beauty of message boards is that we're all entitled to our opinion!

I will go on record and say that the return on a Vanek trade will not be "middling prospects" and "picks". A young roster player + top prospect will be in the package.

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07-10-2013, 02:46 PM
  #371
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Originally Posted by OilerFan4Life View Post
You guys think I'm out to lunch.

I believe you guys are out to lunch.

The beauty of message boards is that we're all entitled to our opinion!

I will go on record and say that the return on a Vanek trade will not be "middling prospects" and "picks". A young roster player + top prospect will be in the package.
Can't we all just go out to lunch and have a few beers?

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07-10-2013, 02:47 PM
  #372
s7ark
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Originally Posted by OilerFan4Life View Post
Bro, I'm not the one advocating that they move him now. Like I've said THREE times now....they should move him at the TDD.

And let's clarify a few things here folks.

1) He has NEVER publically asked for a trade.
2) He does not have a NTC/NMC


Again, spin it how you want....Sir Thomas will not be dealt for anything less than an elite return.
If I had a nickel for every time a poster claimed with certainty that a player would only be moved for an elite return, only to have the actual return not even come close to that, I'd be rich.

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07-10-2013, 02:51 PM
  #373
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Difference being that OTT is a team that gets s*** done..
Except when it counts the most

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07-10-2013, 02:52 PM
  #374
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Vanek will net something similar to what Calgary got for Iginla..
If they trade him now they might get one of the bottom teams to bite.. At deadline it'll be the contenders with late round picks..

Edm 2014 1st at this point has a lot of value and would surely interest a rebuilding team like BUF..

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07-10-2013, 02:55 PM
  #375
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Perron traded to Edmonton.. coming in now.

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