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Old
07-10-2013, 11:34 AM
  #26
stokes84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
There's no delay, man. We have time.
Sure, we have time. But getting it done gives you an idea of what you are working with on the trade market, dollar wise. And if you are piddling with your own RFAs, what's the likelihood your willing to be aggressive with an offersheet? It's just Regier and Co reacting, as per usual. Never initiating.

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07-10-2013, 11:38 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Sure, we have time. But getting it done gives you an idea of what you are working with on the trade market, dollar wise. And if you are piddling with your own RFAs, what's the likelihood your willing to be aggressive with an offersheet? It's just Regier and Co reacting, as per usual. Never initiating.
Are you expecting significant trades to go down at all, though? Especially after Cody signs? I don't see the connection there.

Nor do I see the need to set markets...

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07-10-2013, 11:40 AM
  #28
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I'm sure if the Rangers want to sign a remaining UFA or two they want to have their RFA's taken care of first so there is less likelihood that someone offersheets them.

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07-10-2013, 11:41 AM
  #29
stokes84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
Are you expecting significant trades to go down at all, though? Especially after Cody signs? I don't see the connection there.

Nor do I see the need to set markets...
One would hope...

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07-10-2013, 12:21 PM
  #30
Barney Gumble
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Navy Goat View Post
hence why you don't see them tossed around for 2nd tier players outside of the Blues-Canucks pissing match a few years ago with Kesler.
Actually that involved David Backes (now "C" of the Blues). Gillis offered Backes an offer sheet.

Bobby Clarke (Flyers) offered Kesler an offer sheet.

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07-10-2013, 01:23 PM
  #31
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I respectfully disagree about the RFA compensation. Of course I know teams have to give up their own pick(s). I assumed most observers note the difference between a top 4 or 5 pick this year and the 25th to 30th. Who can offersheet a 5 year $25million deal and walk away laughing? A team that could use help? One that is already on top?

-there is a decided advantage to the teams already at the top because they are giving up less to get the player while paying the same salary

-to put it another way--you are paying one million dollars a year or a million yen a year--the currencies, here draft picks , are different.

-that reduces the player's options-albeit he has a choice to sign or not to and most players prefer to be with a good team--although Doan and Horton chose a different path...why reduced? because the team that needs to get better cannot take the risk.

-Chicago offersheets Hodgson for 5 years at $25 million. In effect the first and third next year, with the addition of Hodgson, will basically be a second and a fourth. Buffalo does not want to pay that kind of stupid money for Hodgson and yet that return is awful. The Hawks have overpaid but given away zilch for a very good second line centre.

Anyhow that is what I think--obviously the NHL and the NHLPA do not yet agree with me!

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07-10-2013, 04:30 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Sure, we have time. But getting it done gives you an idea of what you are working with on the trade market, dollar wise. And if you are piddling with your own RFAs, what's the likelihood your willing to be aggressive with an offersheet? It's just Regier and Co reacting, as per usual. Never initiating.
We should absolutely not even begin to consider an offersheet at the beginning of a rebuild. An offersheet is the last thing you do to put your team over the hump when you don't give a **** about futures.

And I really can't imagine how our RFAs will impact our trade position. We'll be $20M under the cap either way. If it's $19M or $21M, it's not going to effect our decisionmaking process.

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07-10-2013, 04:48 PM
  #33
stokes84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
We should absolutely not even begin to consider an offersheet at the beginning of a rebuild. An offersheet is the last thing you do to put your team over the hump when you don't give a **** about futures.

And I really can't imagine how our RFAs will impact our trade position. We'll be $20M under the cap either way. If it's $19M or $21M, it's not going to effect our decisionmaking process.
Some of you act as though a top 5 pick is already guaranteed. We have no idea how next year will play out, but we do know we have an extremely deep prospect pool as is. Giving up a 1st, a 2nd (we already have two others) and a 3rd for an early 20ish year old who has already proven to be an excellent NHL players does not fly in the face of a rebuild and if anything speeds it up.

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Old
07-10-2013, 04:55 PM
  #34
haseoke39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Some of you act as though a top 5 pick is already guaranteed. We have no idea how next year will play out, but we do know we have an extremely deep prospect pool as is. Giving up a 1st, a 2nd (we already have two others) and a 3rd for an early 20ish year old who has already proven to be an excellent NHL players does not fly in the face of a rebuild and if anything speeds it up.
The question isn't what's metaphysically possible, it's what's probable. And if we shed half the blue line, the captain, the starting goalie and leading scorer from last year's 12th place team and don't drop in the standings, it will be a small miracle.

In that world, whoever you pick with that first rounder alone is likely to be better than the 20 year old you acquire on an offer sheet. Offer sheets make sense when your picks suck and you don't care about them. This is not that time.

And our prospect pool is deep with guys who don't project as elite players. We're not done.

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07-10-2013, 05:16 PM
  #35
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Anyone else a little bothered by Hodgson not electing arbitration, and the reports of his agent snubbing Regier?

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07-10-2013, 05:33 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuzzKillington90 View Post
Anyone else a little bothered by Hodgson not electing arbitration, and the reports of his agent snubbing Regier?
I'd be a little more bothered by Hodgson electing arbitration since he can't. He needs 4 years professional experience before he can elect arbitration and only has 3.

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07-10-2013, 05:33 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
The question isn't what's metaphysically possible, it's what's probable. And if we shed half the blue line, the captain, the starting goalie and leading scorer from last year's 12th place team and don't drop in the standings, it will be a small miracle.

In that world, whoever you pick with that first rounder alone is likely to be better than the 20 year old you acquire on an offer sheet. Offer sheets make sense when your picks suck and you don't care about them. This is not that time.

And our prospect pool is deep with guys who don't project as elite players. We're not done.
I'm sorry, but a top 5 pick, especially next year, has very little chance of being better than Pietrangelo (drafted 4th), Bogosian (drafted 3rd) or Stepan (Younger than Hodgson, Ennis and Myers, 44 points, two way, 1st line center).

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07-10-2013, 06:24 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
I'm sorry, but a top 5 pick, especially next year, has very little chance of being better than Pietrangelo (drafted 4th), Bogosian (drafted 3rd) or Stepan (Younger than Hodgson, Ennis and Myers, 44 points, two way, 1st line center).
The crux of the matter is how much do you offer and for how long to these players to make their team not match? Pietrangelo is a number 1 defenseman and would be worth opening the bank for but Stepan has the makings of a number 1 but you still have the risk that he turns out to be a defensively better Hodgson.

Under 6.7 per year would result in the 1st, 2nd, 3rd picks next year which isn't terrible to give up, however the term has to be 5 years or less as if you signed him for 6 then the total contract is divided by 5 and is pushed into the next tier. The Rangers would have the hardest time getting under the cap to absorb the contract, but frankly, is Stepan worth it?

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07-10-2013, 07:08 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Navy Goat View Post
The crux of the matter is how much do you offer and for how long to these players to make their team not match? Pietrangelo is a number 1 defenseman and would be worth opening the bank for but Stepan has the makings of a number 1 but you still have the risk that he turns out to be a defensively better Hodgson.

Under 6.7 per year would result in the 1st, 2nd, 3rd picks next year which isn't terrible to give up, however the term has to be 5 years or less as if you signed him for 6 then the total contract is divided by 5 and is pushed into the next tier. The Rangers would have the hardest time getting under the cap to absorb the contract, but frankly, is Stepan worth it?
Personally, I believe Stepan is.

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07-10-2013, 09:05 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuzzKillington90 View Post
Anyone else a little bothered by Hodgson not electing arbitration, and the reports of his agent snubbing Regier?
No. Because that's nonsense.

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Old
07-11-2013, 10:07 PM
  #41
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A bad team is more likely to need the player they are offer-sheeting, so the NHL makes the cost higher because they don't want people offer-sheeting.

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Old
07-11-2013, 11:17 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dotcommunism View Post
I'd be a little more bothered by Hodgson electing arbitration since he can't. He needs 4 years professional experience before he can elect arbitration and only has 3.
Actually that isnt the case......


a player who is a group 2 free agent (section 10.2) who has 3 years of experience and age of signing can elect salary arbitration. the club CANT elect arbitartion. At this point only the player can.

But by the player electing salary arbitration that means he is inelgible for offer sheets. If the club elects arbitration he can still sign offer sheets.

the club can only elect arbitration on a player once while the player can do it multiple times.

As for hodgson elected arbitration....I think he cant if im interpreting it right. He signed when 18-20 thus needing 3 yrs of experience. He only has 2 years. his first year he got called up and played only 8 games thus it may not qualify as a season for this (10 games minimum).

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07-11-2013, 11:23 PM
  #43
dotcommunism
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Djp View Post
Actually that isnt the case......


a player who is a group 2 free agent (section 10.2) who has 3 years of experience and age of signing can elect salary arbitration. the club CANT elect arbitartion. At this point only the player can.

But by the player electing salary arbitration that means he is inelgible for offer sheets. If the club elects arbitration he can still sign offer sheets.

the club can only elect arbitration on a player once while the player can do it multiple times.
Sorry, you're incorrect in your interpretation of the CBA yet again.

12.1 Eligibility for Player or Club Election of Salary Arbitration.
(a) A Player is eligible for salary arbitration if the Player meets the qualifications set forth in the following chart and in Section 12.1(b) below:
First SPC Signing Age
Minimum Level of Professional Experience Required to be Eligible for Salary Arbitration
18-20 4 years professional experience
21 3 years professional experience
22-23 2 years professional experience
24 and older 1 year professional experience
A Player aged 18 or 19 earns a year of professional experience by playing ten (10) or more NHL Games in a given season. A Player aged 20 or older (or who turns 20 between September 16 and
December 31 of the calendar year in which he signs his first SPC) earns a year of professional experience by playing ten (10) or more Professional Games under an SPC in a given season.
(b) Only Players who qualify as Restricted Free Agents as described in Section 10.2 of this Agreement, who meet the qualifications in Section 12.1(a) above, and who have not signed an Offer Sheet are eligible either to elect salary arbitration or be subject to a Club-elected salary arbitration.
(c) As used in this Article, "age," including "First SPC Signing Age," means a Player's age on September 15 of the calendar year in which he first signs an SPC regardless of his actual age on the date he signs such SPC.


Hodgson signed his first SPC when he was 18, so he needs 4 years of professional experience before he's eligible for arbitration

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07-12-2013, 09:25 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karate Johnson View Post
I hope someone offer sheets Hodgson for a bunch of picks. He's not that good.
Doesn't BUF need a #1/#2 center in 2013/14 (and beyond) more than they need draft picks next year?
Why not hope someone offer sheets Tropp? He's less talented than Hodgson.
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Originally Posted by Rob Paxon View Post
The most we'd get is a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. I wouldn't take it unless it's from a team like Florida.
Agreed. Or another team guaranteed to be in the bottom 4 or 5. But how do you predict that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
I've been worried about this Hodgson negotiation since he was traded here. He was moved here with a sense of entitlement. If it is going poorly like ROR did last year, I wouldn't be shocked to see him moved.
Why would BUF move him? They traded for him, with the intent he be part of a future in BUF.
BUF needs a #1/#2 center for next year. They own his rights, and Hodgson is affordable. Hodgson, as a RESTRICTED Free Agent has two options and 1 hope. Options: (1) sign BUF QO for 1 or 2 years (his choice on term), or (2) negotiate a longer-term contract with BUF. Hope: Another team hands him an offer sheet. If none of those things happens, he won't be playing and won't get paid, period, and if none of those things happens by December 1, he can't play until the '14-15 season.

The only possibility I see BUF moving Hodgson, is for a better #1/#2 center coming back from the trading team, so how is that going to happen? The only way I see another team trading a better #1/#2 center for Hodgson is if the trading partner is either over the cap, or has a similar time horizon to playoff relevance as does BUF. That solution space is a null set.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
The Rangers are knocking out their RFAs one after another. Why do we always delay with these things?
Maybe Darcy just wants to piss you off?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
Are you expecting significant trades to go down at all, though? Especially after Cody signs? I don't see the connection there.

Nor do I see the need to set markets...
Exactly.

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Old
07-12-2013, 09:34 AM
  #45
stokes84
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Option 3. Pull a Subban or ROR and refuse to sign until he gets the contract he demands.

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07-12-2013, 10:03 AM
  #46
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Option 3. Pull a Subban or ROR and refuse to sign until he gets the contract he demands.
OK, fair enough. I concede partially.

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07-12-2013, 11:16 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
The question isn't what's metaphysically possible, it's what's probable. And if we shed half the blue line, the captain, the starting goalie and leading scorer from last year's 12th place team and don't drop in the standings, it will be a small miracle.

In that world, whoever you pick with that first rounder alone is likely to be better than the 20 year old you acquire on an offer sheet. Offer sheets make sense when your picks suck and you don't care about them. This is not that time.

And our prospect pool is deep with guys who don't project as elite players. We're not done.
I'm curious what you mean by this. What's an elite player to you?

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Old
08-06-2013, 12:06 PM
  #48
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More on Rich Winter by Paul Hamilton:

"Hodgson could become a big problem. He’s represented by one of the sleaziest agents in pro sports, Rich Winter. Winter led Dominik Hasek to many, many poor decisions and he already made Hodgson a guy that just wasn’t worth keeping around by causing problems in Vancouver. I’m not saying this will happen, but it wouldn’t surprise me at all if the Sabres are pushed to a point where the have to trade the centerman because of Winter."

http://www.wgr550.com/Sabres-sign-Tr...dgson/16998240

Kind of surprised he shared this in writing on the website, since he is MSM.


Last edited by Jacob582: 08-06-2013 at 12:13 PM.
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Old
08-06-2013, 12:19 PM
  #49
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I will part with Hodgson. Screw his agent. He should only be signed to a bridge contract not ridiculous Tyler Myers contracts, Anywhere else Hodgson will play 2nd or 3rd line, at least here in Buffalo he has chance at 1st line center.

3 years bridge contract at $7.5 mil/$2.5 mil a year

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08-06-2013, 01:47 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by BadNewsPoe View Post
I will part with Hodgson. Screw his agent. He should only be signed to a bridge contract not ridiculous Tyler Myers contracts, Anywhere else Hodgson will play 2nd or 3rd line, at least here in Buffalo he has chance at 1st line center.

3 years bridge contract at $7.5 mil/$2.5 mil a year
I've heard some fans say his father is a problem too. Any truth to this?

I thought Hodgson would want to leave his "difficult" reputation behind him once he changed teams. You don't want to burn too many bridges or you will soon be in a world of hurt.

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