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Are you/do you think you will be happy with the Briere signing?

View Poll Results: Are you happy?
Yes 211 48.96%
No 220 51.04%
Voters: 431. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-09-2013, 11:18 PM
  #226
DAChampion
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Don't you think that at least Eller did enough to warrant first shot though? I mean the guy grew by leaps and bounds last year. And if he does warrant this, then what do we do with Briere?
It's ridiculous the extent to which Eller has had to prove himself.

I still remember at this time last year, the vast majority of the forum thought that Eller sucked offensively, and that he had lost his place on the totem pole to Desharnais.

This year, after his dominant performance, it is only logical to give Eller more pp time. What do they do? They bring in a Desharnais clone.

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Old
07-09-2013, 11:27 PM
  #227
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
I was a little off about the numbers, mea culpa, but not so much that the argument loses validity.

The bottom line is that playoff performance is irrelevant. You can't take the cumulative performance of a player over the past decade, that doesn't make any sense. Players evolve, they mature and grow older, they accumulate concussions and experience, and those factors compete. Would I want the Briere of 2005 on a 2-year, 8 million dollar contract? Yes. Are we getting that player? No, we're getting a completely different player. Same with Gomez, we didn't get the Gomez of old. We didn't get the Gomez who had 45 points in 42 playoff games in the five seasons prior to being traded to Montreal.

And yes, Briere benefited from playing against Fleury. The fact he then did well against New Jersey serves to demonstrate only one thing: your ignorance of statistics. 5 points in 5 games is statistically insignificant.

We need to analyze Briere as he is. He is a smurf who is good offensively but terrible defensively, kind of like Desharnais and Gallagher, and thus he is redundant. His primary distinction from Desharnais and Gallagher is that he is more expensive, older, and has had more concussions.
The bottom line is these are subjective claims that are never 100%. If you want to say the bottom line is playoff performance is irrelevent, there are people who will disagree (and agree). If you want to claim being over 25% off doesn't make the argument lose validity, there will be people who disagree (and agree).

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Old
07-09-2013, 11:40 PM
  #228
Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
It's ridiculous the extent to which Eller has had to prove himself.

I still remember at this time last year, the vast majority of the forum thought that Eller sucked offensively, and that he had lost his place on the totem pole to Desharnais.

This year, after his dominant performance, it is only logical to give Eller more pp time. What do they do? They bring in a Desharnais clone.
Eller really did have to overcome a lot of crap. I thought for sure MT hated him and he was going to be gone (reminded me of Perezhogin actually.) Props to him for stepping up the way he did.

But yeah, I think Briere is ahead of him in the line for PP time now.

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Old
07-09-2013, 11:51 PM
  #229
Habs10Habs
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Don't you think that at least Eller did enough to warrant first shot though? I mean the guy grew by leaps and bounds last year. And if he does warrant this, then what do we do with Briere?

Even if I accepted your argument about this not hurting our youth (which I don't) I still don't see how this signing is good for our team.

I think people who like the signing are looking at things in a vacuum and saying to themselves that we've added another scorer to our lineup - so it must be good. They don't think about the lack of space that our smaller players already face in the playoffs. They don't think about how we have nobody who goes to the net. THAT was what we really needed. Lshap made a great analogy in the other thread that if we were a football team we'd be all receivers and no linebackers. That's kind of how I feel. No balance on this team whatsoever now. It was bad before and now MB has somehow managed to make it worse. It's not so bad in the regular season but in the playoffs you have to go to the net if you want to win. We don't do this. And even worse, other teams do it to us all the time because we don't have the crease clearing warriors that other teams do.

That's what really kills us.
Personally I do think he has, but obviously MB and the coaching staff don't agree. Or maybe they're concerned how he's going to be (mentally) after his injury.

I watched every minute of our playoffs, and I did take the issue of our lack of size into consideration. Personally, I'm waiting to see what Bergevin's future moves are. If he proceeds (like I feel he will), you will see some larger bodies added to the line up. Which in turn will make the Briere signing make more sense. If he doesn't, then I will pull a 180 degree turn, and be 100% in your corner.

In the meantime, I'm not willing to slam the addition of Briere until I see the whole picture.

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Old
07-09-2013, 11:53 PM
  #230
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Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
You speak as if you were the only one to watch A LOT (!!!!!) of hockey on this board. Get off your high horse. I've watched plenty enough of Briere to know what to expect. And while he's not a first line contributor at this point of his career, he's still a well above-average offensive player, and in a role of secondary scorer, he's still able to get his 50+ points.
Again with the points, points, and only points. That's hockeydb talking, not someone who has watched enough of Briere over the past couple of seasons.

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Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
Stop acting all high and mighty. I checked your posts history. And your great "judgment/talent evaluation" has lead you to look like a fool more than once. Most notably on the Halak/Price debate.
Hope you enjoyed the read. Some quality stuff in there. But in the Halak/Price "debate", I was pretty clearly on the side that said that Halak was outperforming Price (and he was - particularly "when it mattered") and thus BOTH should have been kept for at least another year to determine the "winner". Pretty sure you also found that I would clearly have chosen Price in any situation where I'm considering long term and can only choose one.

Trust me dude, you're not the first one to try to go down this route - you know this, having supposedly read it all. I suggest you get ready, and wisely choose which pill you take before jumping in the rabbit hole. I'm not above going through YOUR posting history if you wanna get messy.

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Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
The ones who hate the signing are the ones who made the mistake of thinking the Briere signing was the signing made to "put us over the top". 4M for 2 years is a small risk deal, and knowing Briere's history, he's more likely than not going to help in the SO, on the PP, AND whenever there's an injury at center, he's able to step up a contribute offensively.
Uh, no. The most vocal among us, Lafleurs Guy in particular, have elaborated extensively along the lines of how it doesn't make sense "in a bubble", NOR in the context of the team composition as it stands today.

And btw, I think you've forgotten that playoff games aren't decided by shootouts. If they were, I might... MIGHT consider Briere to be some kind of "ace in the hole". But they aren't, and I think anyone who doesn't severely doubt his ability to prevent at least as many goals as he produces (at this point) is a fool.

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Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
This signing, like it or not, DOES improve us. Not to the point of being a cup contender. No. In fact, no available player this summer would've done this. And most of the "best of the crop" would've required us handcuffing ourselves for 5-7 years.
*Insert Big Lubowski gif* "Like, that's just your opinion, maaaan."

And I don't agree with it, which is totally cool. I don't think it will be hard to find NUMEROUS people on both sides and in the middle, but I usually find it easy to pick out the people who rationalize these things like computer simulations featuring an "overall" player rating. And seriously, your tone by the end here is pretty ironic, given the "high and mighty" speech earlier there. Are you saying you predicted all the trades so far, and that they, and only they, were/are/will be the players available between now and opening day '13/14? Or are you saying that the best/only way this team was going to improve this off season was by signing a free agent with a high video game rating?

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Old
07-10-2013, 12:23 AM
  #231
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by Habs10Habs View Post
Personally I do think he has, but obviously MB and the coaching staff don't agree. Or maybe they're concerned how he's going to be (mentally) after his injury.

I watched every minute of our playoffs, and I did take the issue of our lack of size into consideration. Personally, I'm waiting to see what Bergevin's future moves are. If he proceeds (like I feel he will), you will see some larger bodies added to the line up. Which in turn will make the Briere signing make more sense. If he doesn't, then I will pull a 180 degree turn, and be 100% in your corner.

In the meantime, I'm not willing to slam the addition of Briere until I see the whole picture.
I don't think a lot of people understand the Briere signing. Really, the only reason it makes sense is on the short term. So Bergevin wanted a skilled veteran winger on a short term contract, that's fine, but a small player like Briere? Not sure I get that one.

I'm not one to go all high school teenage girl drama style, so I didn't join in on the hate. I don't think it's as bad as some people are saying. I think he can bring an offensive dimension to our team simply because we don't have good set up guys like him. I can see him do some good next to Plek-MaxPac, or Eller-Gal/Prust.
In any event, I will be pretty upset if DD starts the year yet again with MaxPac.

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Old
07-10-2013, 10:03 AM
  #232
Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I don't think a lot of people understand the Briere signing. Really, the only reason it makes sense is on the short term. So Bergevin wanted a skilled veteran winger on a short term contract, that's fine, but a small player like Briere? Not sure I get that one.

I'm not one to go all high school teenage girl drama style, so I didn't join in on the hate. I don't think it's as bad as some people are saying. I think he can bring an offensive dimension to our team simply because we don't have good set up guys like him. I can see him do some good next to Plek-MaxPac, or Eller-Gal/Prust.
In any event, I will be pretty upset if DD starts the year yet again with MaxPac.
Who else can they play him with? I mean seriously, we didn't add any other big wingers so who else can DD play with? Bourque maybe...

I guess we could hope that MB goes out and gets an over the hill Morrow to play on our club but at the end of the day having DD is a big reason not to get a guy like Briere. I wouldn't hate this move so much if we were say Boston and wanted to gamble on a bounceback by the little man. But for us it really hamstrings us because we need bigger guys to play with the players we already have. And signing Briere makes an already acute problem worse.

Just going through the lines in my head now...


Bourque Plecs Briere
Max DD Gionta
Galchenyuk Eller Gallagher

Its going to shake out something like this I guess... though I'm not sure if Galchenyuk goes on the right wing or not...

I just shudder to think of Max and Bourque going down with injuries.... scares the hell out of me. 2 of the three lines already have two shrimps on them. I'm not sure if they bring some 4th liners up and have skilled guys on all 4 lines. That might be the only way for this to work. Maybe Prust comes up but then you have to relegate one of these guys to the 4th. It's not going to be Briere so I'm worried that Galchenyuk (a guy who should get better ice) is going to draw the short straw.

Maybe the best way to do it would be...

Bourque Plecs Briere
Max Eller Gionta
Prust Galchenyuk Gallagher (I actually think this line makes sense)
Parros DD White/Moen

Still that's an awfully weird lineup. I don't know how you really make sense of this group because we've got shrimps and goons. If you play the shrimps together it doesn't really work. If you play the goons well, they can't play hockey so...

But I think you can expect DD to play with Max.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I'm not one to go all high school teenage girl drama style, so I didn't join in on the hate.
And when I read stuff like this it makes me wonder what you are talking about. When our GM makes dumb moves, he should be ripped for it. When posters say crap like "high school drama" it's just such a transparent attempt to dismiss the criticism. There's tons of reasons to hate this move. And there's tons of reasons to be really upset about it. Saying **** like this doesn't have any place on a message board.

People are angry about it and they have a right to be angry.


Last edited by Lafleurs Guy: 07-10-2013 at 10:15 AM.
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Old
07-10-2013, 07:00 PM
  #233
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For me personally im not too happy with the trade, i guess we needed center depth and help on the pp, heres hoping Briere stays healthy for 2 years

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07-10-2013, 07:42 PM
  #234
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http://www.montrealgazette.com/sport...372/story.html

Quoted from the article:

Quote:
“I think we spoke first with the Canadiens (on July 3). I remember hanging up and thinking, ‘Wow, whoever I’m going to talk to next, it’s going to be tough to match what (GM) Marc Bergevin and (coach) Michel Therrien said.
And people still think we didn't overpay or Briere didn't come here for the money.

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Old
07-10-2013, 07:47 PM
  #235
Year 101
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Originally Posted by Brainiac View Post
http://www.montrealgazette.com/sport...372/story.html

Quoted from the article:



And people still think we didn't overpay or Briere didn't come here for the money.
Quote:
With more than a dozen other teams intrigued at various levels, Brière this time opted for Montreal, leaving longer terms and bigger dollars on other tables.
This was also in the article....

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07-10-2013, 08:05 PM
  #236
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What's with people putting Briere with Plekanec. That's unlikely to happen outside of the powerplay. Plekanec is eating the defensive minutes like he always is and Briere has no place in that role. He also certainly cannot do what Gionta does in that spot.

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07-10-2013, 08:06 PM
  #237
Brainiac
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Originally Posted by Year 101 View Post
This was also in the article....
That's a generic statement repeated over and over in order to please the fans. You read that in most articles about UFA signings.

I don't think an other team offered 5M/y for 3 years, tbh.

I'd rather put my money on what Briere actually said. On July 3rd, the Habs offer was way better than everything he had so far on the table.

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07-10-2013, 08:13 PM
  #238
Grant McCagg
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Originally Posted by Brainiac View Post
http://www.montrealgazette.com/sport...372/story.html

Quoted from the article:



And people still think we didn't overpay or Briere didn't come here for the money.
Nice job of misinterpreting what he said. Obviously you conveniently failed to read the rest of the article as well. For a Brainiac you've wholly disappointed me.

Nice article - hard to be negative after that..unless you're a brainiac of course.

I remember wanting Briere on the Habs badly back in his draft year. When Houle went on stage and called the name Matt Higgins, I was irate. I'd seen Briere play a number of times in Hull, and really thought he'd be the steal of the draft, and a natural fit for the Habs. As it turned out....he's the highest scoring prospect form that draft. Only took 17 years...but he's finally a Hab.

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07-10-2013, 08:24 PM
  #239
Brainiac
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Originally Posted by Grant McCagg View Post
Nice job of misinterpreting what he said. Obviously you conveniently failed to read the rest of the article as well. For a Brainiac you've wholly disappointed me.
I know, Briere said many nice things. But the fact is, on July 3rd, the Habs put an offer on the table that simply blows everthing else.

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Old
07-10-2013, 08:32 PM
  #240
Beendair Donedat
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Originally Posted by Grant McCagg View Post
Nice job of misinterpreting what he said. Obviously you conveniently failed to read the rest of the article as well. For a Brainiac you've wholly disappointed me.

Nice article - hard to be negative after that..unless you're a brainiac of course.

I remember wanting Briere on the Habs badly back in his draft year. When Houle went on stage and called the name Matt Higgins, I was irate. I'd seen Briere play a number of times in Hull, and really thought he'd be the steal of the draft, and a natural fit for the Habs. As it turned out....he's the highest scoring prospect form that draft. Only took 17 years...but he's finally a Hab.
Don't hurt your shoulder while you're patting yourself on the back McCagg.

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07-10-2013, 08:42 PM
  #241
Year 101
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Originally Posted by Brainiac View Post
I know, Briere said many nice things. But the fact is, on July 3rd, the Habs put an offer on the table that simply blows everthing else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant McCagg View Post
Nice job of misinterpreting what he said. Obviously you conveniently failed to read the rest of the article as well. For a Brainiac you've wholly disappointed me.

Nice article - hard to be negative after that..unless you're a brainiac of course.

I remember wanting Briere on the Habs badly back in his draft year. When Houle went on stage and called the name Matt Higgins, I was irate. I'd seen Briere play a number of times in Hull, and really thought he'd be the steal of the draft, and a natural fit for the Habs. As it turned out....he's the highest scoring prospect form that draft. Only took 17 years...but he's finally a Hab.
^ What grant said.

Many journalists including credible ones stated that at other teams (Nashville specifically) offered more $$/Term. Also he didn't mention money, he said it was hard to match what they had to say. Which the paragraph underneath he states

Quote:
“They did a fantastic job of explaining where they were going and what they thought of their team. I was very impressed with both of them, how they view their team and where they’re going with it. There was no turning back after that — especially starting with the fact that I wanted to be there in the first place.”
Which is what he was referring to. You may not like the signing, but don't misconstrue the quotes as justification. Personally, I don't hate nor love the signing, I think he'll be a welcome addition and he adds a lot of points and replacement time for Ryder until younger players are ready.

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07-10-2013, 08:46 PM
  #242
Grant McCagg
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Originally Posted by Beendair Donedat View Post
Don't hurt your shoulder while you're patting yourself on the back McCagg.
Why are you so confrontational all the time? Do you ever contribute anything useful to this board? Spiteful, immature, uninformed......you've got it all.

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07-10-2013, 08:55 PM
  #243
Brainiac
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Originally Posted by Year 101 View Post
^ What grant said.

Many journalists including credible ones stated that at other teams (Nashville specifically) offered more $$/Term. Also he didn't mention money, he said it was hard to match what they had to say. Which the paragraph underneath he states
What they had to say? Like, "Hey Danny, you know you will actually look taller if you play for the Habs?"

And we just don't have numbers regarding the other offers. It could mean that Nashville offered 4.25M for one year. Or 2.75M for three years (8.25M total).

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07-10-2013, 08:57 PM
  #244
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
People are angry about it and they have a right to be angry.
So what would you prefer?

Ryder left, and now his hole has to be filled. Would you prefer to throw a raw rookie like Collberg or Thomas on a scoring line, and just hope they work out immediately?

Or would you prefer getting Clarkson for the cap hit/term he signed for? Or Horton for his cap hit/term?

Pretty much all the legit Top 6 Forward UFAs went for ~$5 million a year or more, many on long contracts. Briere is actually one of a precious few who could conceivably be a good Top 6 forward next year who went for significantly less than $5 million a year.

Briere really is just a stopgap measure until Gally is ready for full-time duty on the Top 2 lines, and one of Collberg, LeBlanc, and Thomas is ready to take Gally's current spot as 3rd line winger.


I'd prefer someone bigger and younger too, but that means Clarkson/Horton-type deals, and I'm not sure that would be best for a team with the young players and prospect depth up-front that Montreal has.

Simply put, MB had no clear, good options this offseason. The Habs have good depth up front, but we don't have anything approaching an elite first line, at least not yet. So for the foreseeable future we need to run three scoring lines. Gally-Chucky (with either Eller or Prust) eating other team's third lines for lunch was a huge part of our success last year.

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07-10-2013, 09:03 PM
  #245
Beendair Donedat
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Originally Posted by Grant McCagg View Post
Why are you so confrontational all the time? Do you ever contribute anything useful to this board? Spiteful, immature, uninformed......you've got it all.
I don't think anything you say can be verified. You trumpet all the time about "your" picks and look at them now... In Betting terms you'd call that "redboading." Your opinion is certainly no better or "more informed" than anyone else's here from what I've read.

Tell us who else you picked that was better than an old GM that you were "irate" about... I'm dying to know.

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07-10-2013, 09:09 PM
  #246
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Grant is one of the top posters on the forum, I say this in spite of the fact that our agreement fraction is not high.

Hindsight is 20/20, sure, but foresight is not. Grant called the McCarron pick in advance. In the pre draft threads, he was clearly one of a handful who knew what he was talking about.

Beendair, you are coming off as a poster child for envy. Don't be envious, be grateful.

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07-10-2013, 09:09 PM
  #247
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Originally Posted by Beendair Donedat View Post
I don't think anything you say can be verified. You trumpet all the time about "your" picks and look at them now... In Betting terms you'd call that "redboading." Your opinion is certainly no better or "more informed" than anyone else's here from what I've read.

Tell us who else you picked that was better than an old GM that you were "irate" about... I'm dying to know.
He was an NHL scout

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07-10-2013, 09:10 PM
  #248
Erik Estrada
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The signing wasn't the most obvious move, but in the end it's how the team ends up looking in October. Brière might fit in nicely or he might be one more cog on the Romper Room Express.

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07-10-2013, 09:10 PM
  #249
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Originally Posted by Brainiac View Post
http://www.montrealgazette.com/sport...372/story.html

Quoted from the article:



And people still think we didn't overpay or Briere didn't come here for the money.
I'm pretty sure that what he meant is that Therrien and Bergevin were very convincing, not just because of term and money but that they had solid arguments as well. Please not Briere said its going to be tough to match what they said, not what they offered. Difference there.

You know GMs don't just call a player and say ''Yo Briere, 2 years 4 million? You takin it dude?''. They probably talked about his role on the team, were he'd fit in, how this is a young promising team, how Therrien is going to give him 22min per game despite the angry fans, ect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beendair Donedat
I don't think anything you say can be verified. You trumpet all the time about "your" picks and look at them now... In Betting terms you'd call that "redboading." Your opinion is certainly no better or "more informed" than anyone else's here from what I've read.

Tell us who else you picked that was better than an old GM that you were "irate" about... I'm dying to know.
You won't find many people backing you there bro. Guys like Grant are the reason HFboards is still readable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion
I say this in spite of the fact that our agreement fraction is not high.
I don't think agreement is that important in enjoying other posters' contribution (of course you seem to agree with that, I just want to add a bit to it ). I frequently disagree with you DAC yet I enjoy your posts, its always clear there is thinking, reason and logic behind them. Sadly these three elements appear to be a rare commodity anywhere these days were strawman and arguments based on unfounded hyperboles keep popping up every two posts.


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Old
07-10-2013, 09:16 PM
  #250
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,970
vCash: 500
After a week of thinking about it, I still don't like it....unless Desharnais is moved. Another one-dimensional top 6 forward who requires soft opposition is not what the team needed, and when you compound the fact that he's regressed in the last couple of years, it's even more bizarre.

Unless DD gets moved, this signing is odd.

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