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[EDM/STL] David Perron for Magnus Paajarvi + 2nd '14

View Poll Results: How do you feel about the MPS-Perron trade?
Happy with the trade 156 62.65%
Not happy with the trade 32 12.85%
Wait and see with the trade 61 24.50%
Voters: 249. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-10-2013, 08:32 PM
  #976
The Bored Man
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SephF View Post
Perron

Minutes played : 864:20
Goals : 10

Paajarvi

Minutes played : 593:28
Goals : 9
David Backes
940 minutes played....6 goals

Anze Kopitar
960 minutes played...10 goals

You're not fooling anyone by trying to prove that MPS was somehow better than Perron this year.

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Old
07-10-2013, 08:32 PM
  #977
VanCanFanEDM
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Originally Posted by Oilbleeder View Post
I've seen the goal thing posted a few times.

MPS scored more goals this season than both Oshie and Backes. Does that mean MPS had a better season than the two? Or was his offense more pronounced than the two.
Exactly. We just traded for a first line player, on very good team who this post season had a legit shot at winning the cup for third line player on one of the worst teams in the league. WIN WIN WIN.

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Old
07-10-2013, 08:36 PM
  #978
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I had to bring up shooting percentages over ans over but they really are indicative of how terrible a goal scorer Pajaarvi is, the guy won't be a scorer, the comparison doesn't even need to be made, right now he's looking a lot like Dvorak/stalberg type career

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Old
07-10-2013, 08:38 PM
  #979
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
That you're comparing seasons wherein one of the players only played 10games is about all anybody needs to know about your post. The arguments contained within getting worse. Take if from somebody that flails in the deep pool a lot. You're drowning.
Dude, I wasn't using that as a legitimate point... was just saying if we're going to get all silly then look at the year before too. I'm not that dense, don't worry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
As for your specious want to consider only this year are you really suggesting that the 2011-12 season, or Perrons career before it are not illustrative of player and contribution they can make presently?
You're not seeing my whole point and only focusing on one little comment. David Perron will unquestionably have a bigger impact on this team than Paajarvi will next year and probably the year after as well. I was simply pointing out his goal scoring, when broken down by minutes played, wasn't as good as Paajarvi's even though everyone bashes MPS for his lack of goal scoring. I agree with another poster that the system he plays in does stifle his offense, and I even said that I don't doubt for a second that Perrons offense will actually increase in Edmonton.

I'm looking more down the road though, I would be pleasantly surprised if they could find a way to re-sign Perron with the upcoming extensions to RNH, Yakupov and Schultz but it doesn't seem realistic to me, especially at the price UFA's are demanding these days.

Also not a huge fan of trading our best moveable asset for another dangler, but as another poster pointed out you're not going to get a better deal for Paajarvi presently (I agree) would have just prefered a better fit, a better balance and obviously a more long term solution than 2 years of David Perron.

I'm also admittedly (see earlier in this thread) a big Paajarvi fan, so take it as you will. This is a discussion board, here are my opinions, I stand by them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bored Man View Post
David Backes
940 minutes played....6 goals

Anze Kopitar
960 minutes played...10 goals

You're not fooling anyone by trying to prove that MPS was somehow better than Perron this year.
He wasn't better than Perron this year by any stretch of the imagination

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Old
07-10-2013, 08:38 PM
  #980
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SephF View Post
Perron

Minutes played : 864:20
Goals : 10

Paajarvi

Minutes played : 593:28
Goals : 9
Gimme a stat showing ice time in relation to winning a game. Explain to how Perron, on a very good team plays on the FIRST line and MPS plays on the third line of a ****** team.

Im guessing you love the Tampa Bay forwards..

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Old
07-10-2013, 08:38 PM
  #981
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Originally Posted by aleshemsky83 View Post
I had to bring up shooting percentages over ans over but they really are indicative of how terrible a goal scorer Pajaarvi is, the guy won't be a scorer, the comparison doesn't even need to be made, right now he's looking a lot like Dvorak/stalberg type career
I have no idea how anyone is arguing that Paajarvi is even in the same universe of Perron OFFENSIVELY...

Playing under Hitch, I think Perron is better defensively than we think, too.

He'll score 25 goals minimum for us next year if he plays 80+ games.

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Old
07-10-2013, 08:39 PM
  #982
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Sad to see Paajarvi go, but it's a fair trade for both teams imo. I am almost certain that STL would not have make this trade if it wasn't for cap/salary budget problem.

We got a player in Perron that's further along developed and with higher end offensive ability. He also fill the 2nd line LW role (he actually said in the interview today he'll be happy to play anywhere but he actually prefers LW himself). Also him being signed for 3 more years, lack of no trade and a reasonable cap hit make it a friendly contract for us.

Value wise, it is not bad at all. Not saying Perron is Gagner, but they are both below average size skilled forwards(of course with some different traits), drafted same year and have similar potential points output, and I doubt anyone here would think it's enough return if we traded Gagner for Paajarvi and a 2nd round pick. From that perspective, plus the fact that Perron is signed for 3 more yrs at a reasonable $3.85, only 25 years old and not even hit prime yet, this trade is of very good value for us.

IMO, we improved our lineup with this trade. Finally, we filled a hole. Now, let's trade Hemsky for a physical forward that can play on the 2nd/3rd line.

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Old
07-10-2013, 08:40 PM
  #983
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This is a thread discussing the trade for god sakes. I'm not saying I'm more right than anyone else. This is a discussion board so I'm sharing my opinion. I'll leave if that makes you happy I don't care.
But you are not even discussing anything... you don't even reply to posts... you just keep giving us your "opinion" again and again...

"Perron

Minutes played : 864:20
Goals : 10

Paajarvi

Minutes played : 593:28
Goals : 9"

"Haven't been this mad about a trade in a very long time.

Good luck Magnus, stay classy."

"What a terrible trade. Just awful.

So we get a soft injury prone 20 goal scorer... great."

"I'm not happy about this trade.... at all."

And then on the Blues board "Enjoy...

MacT is an idiot. What a terrible trade."

You are not discussing no... you are bashing everyone over the head with your opinion...

Quote:
Cmon man, I'm using the most recent year which gives us the best idea of where the players are at TODAY. Players rookie / sophomore years are usually write offs, you don't get a good idea of what they're going to become until a bit later in their career. Not everyone is Taylor Hall.
Okay... we will write off Perron's rookie and sophomore years...

Perron 3rd season- 82 GP 20-27-47 (0.57 PPG)

Now for Magnus...

Maggie 3rd season- 42 GP 9-7-16 (0.38 PPG)

Not sure how you are helping yourself...

Quote:
I know why it happened, just showing the flaw in his logic, even though he was trying to copy mine.
SO you tried to show me a flaw... in my post... which was a copy of your post... so what you actually did was showcase the flaw in your own logic... good work Gil Grissom...

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Old
07-10-2013, 08:40 PM
  #984
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If anything, we should be thankful that Maggie scored at a very un-Maggie-like clip this year. If he pots 5 goals and 9 assists, perhaps he doesn't merit the same trade value consideration.

I wouldn't bet on him scoring 10 in 82 games next season.

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Old
07-10-2013, 08:41 PM
  #985
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Originally Posted by VanCanFanEDM View Post
Exactly. We just traded for a first line player, on very good team who this post season had a legit shot at winning the cup for third line player on one of the worst teams in the league. WIN WIN WIN.
And how did he perform in the playoffs?

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Old
07-10-2013, 08:41 PM
  #986
SephF
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Originally Posted by VanCanFanEDM View Post
Gimme a stat showing ice time in relation to winning a game. Explain to how Perron, on a very good team plays on the FIRST line and MPS plays on the third line of a ****** team.

Im guessing you love the Tampa Bay forwards..
It's the definition of cherry picking, I know. Worth mentioning though I feel.

And to answer your question the answer is simply Perron is the better hockey player.

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Old
07-10-2013, 08:42 PM
  #987
The Bored Man
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SephF View Post

He wasn't better than Perron this year by any stretch of the imagination
Then why compare their seasons?

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Old
07-10-2013, 08:42 PM
  #988
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AK Dandyman View Post
Value wise, it is not bad at all. Not saying Perron is Gagner, but they are both below average size skilled forwards(of course with some different traits), drafted same year and have similar potential points output, and I doubt anyone here would think it's enough return if we traded Gagner for Paajarvi and a 2nd round pick. From that perspective, plus the fact that Perron is signed for 3 more yrs at a reasonable $3.85, only 25 years old and not even hit prime yet, this trade is of very good value for us.
Some would. But you make an excellent point.

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Old
07-10-2013, 08:44 PM
  #989
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AK Dandyman View Post
Sad to see Paajarvi go, but it's a fair trade for both teams imo. I am almost certain that STL would not have make this trade if it wasn't for cap/salary budget problem.

We got a player in Perron that's further along developed and with higher end offensive ability. He also fill the 2nd line LW role (he actually said in the interview today he'll be happy to play anywhere but he actually prefers LW himself). Also him being signed for 3 more years, lack of no trade and a reasonable cap hit make it a friendly contract for us.

Value wise, it is not bad at all. Not saying Perron is Gagner, but they are both below average size skilled forwards(of course with some different traits), drafted same year and have similar potential points output, and I doubt anyone here would think it's enough return if we traded Gagner for Paajarvi and a 2nd round pick. From that perspective, plus the fact that Perron is signed for 3 more yrs at a reasonable $3.85, only 25 years old and not even hit prime yet, this trade is of very good value for us.

IMO, we improved our lineup with this trade. Finally, we filled a hole. Now, let's trade Hemsky for a physical forward that can play on the 2nd/3rd line.
From the moves management has made, we'll be lucky to get a 5th round pick for Hemsky.

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Old
07-10-2013, 08:44 PM
  #990
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho Dad View Post
If anything, we should be thankful that Maggie scored at a very un-Maggie-like clip this year. If he pots 5 goals and 9 assists, perhaps he doesn't merit the same trade value consideration.

I wouldn't bet on him scoring 10 in 82 games next season.
unless he radically improves there is no way he scores 10 goals next year, specially the way st. Louis plays. better question is can he crack their NHL lineup, he couldn't crack our top two lines.. Id be surprised is he makes their 4th line. Honestly... MPS needs to a GIANT leap forward to be of ANY use to St. Louis

S.

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07-10-2013, 08:45 PM
  #991
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SephF View Post
Dude, I wasn't using that as a legitimate point... was just saying if we're going to get all silly then look at the year before too. I'm not that dense, don't worry.



You're not seeing my whole point and only focusing on one little comment. David Perron will unquestionably have a bigger impact on this team than Paajarvi will next year and probably the year after as well. I was simply pointing out his goal scoring, when broken down by minutes played, wasn't as good as Paajarvi's even though everyone bashes MPS for his lack of goal scoring. I agree with another poster that the system he plays in does stifle his offense, and I even said that I don't doubt for a second that Perrons offense will actually increase in Edmonton.

I'm looking more down the road though, I would be pleasantly surprised if they could find a way to re-sign Perron with the upcoming extensions to RNH, Yakupov and Schultz but it doesn't seem realistic to me, especially at the price UFA's are demanding these days.

Also not a huge fan of trading our best moveable asset for another dangler, but as another poster pointed out you're not going to get a better deal for Paajarvi presently (I agree) would have just prefered a better fit, a better balance and obviously a more long term solution than 2 years of David Perron.

I'm also admittedly (see earlier in this thread) a big Paajarvi fan, so take it as you will. This is a discussion board, here are my opinions, I stand by them.
Thanks for the clarification. I have no difficulty with anybody expressing an opinion obviously.

We all have our different favorites and part of what being a fan is about I guess.

But we're most definitely a better club through this trade.

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Old
07-10-2013, 08:47 PM
  #992
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Originally Posted by Gone View Post
From the moves management has made, we'll be lucky to get a 5th round pick for Hemsky.
Do tell, what do you expect to get back in a Hemsky trade?

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07-10-2013, 08:48 PM
  #993
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Originally Posted by SchultzSquared View Post
But you are not even discussing anything... you don't even reply to posts... you just keep giving us your "opinion" again and again...
??? I've replied to all the posts I've seen directed at me, if I didn't I must've missed it.

Nice work cutting and pasting parts of posts while leaving out anything that would make me look even slightly sane.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SchultzSquared View Post
Okay... we will write off Perron's rookie and sophomore years...

Perron 3rd season- 82 GP 20-27-47 (0.57 PPG)

Now for Magnus...

Maggie 3rd season- 42 GP 9-7-16 (0.38 PPG)

Not sure how you are helping yourself...
Like I said, Perron is the better player and next year the Oilers are a better team. That doesn't mean it's the right trade to make for this club though. I don't think we're competing for the cup next year or in 2014, Perron will be gone after that. I guess we can wheel him at the deadline next season and see what we can get in return, that will give us a better picture of the whole deal.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SchultzSquared View Post
SO you tried to show me a flaw... in my post... which was a copy of your post... so what you actually did was showcase the flaw in your own logic... good work Gil Grissom...
Because it's just as almost as ridiculous to use Paajarvis awful sophomore season where he spent half the year in the AHL as it is to compare Perrons injury shortened season, that's what I meant. I think we can all agree the fairest comparison is the most recent season where they both played close to the same amount of games (42/48) and both got time in the top-6 (not the Belanger triangle).

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bored Man View Post
Then why compare their seasons?
Because this is a thread about the trade and I'm comparing the two players in the deal. Could anything be more relevant to the discussion?

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Old
07-10-2013, 08:49 PM
  #994
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I remember that he scored a beauty for Team Canada back in 07 against Russia.

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07-10-2013, 08:50 PM
  #995
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Well said. The best thing about this trade is that we will no longer have to hear about MPS's "stellar" defensive game every time he makes an average play.
God, this.

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07-10-2013, 08:52 PM
  #996
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One thing I am impressed with Perron is his giveaway takeaway ratio , shows he is stripping away the puck a lot.

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07-10-2013, 08:53 PM
  #997
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Originally Posted by SephF View Post
Because this is a thread about the trade and I'm comparing the two players in the deal. Could anything be more relevant to the discussion?
You yourself said that Perron was by far the better player this season.

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07-10-2013, 08:54 PM
  #998
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Who says Perron won't resign with us if we improve and he gets to finally play in a system suited for his skillset? Your arguments are flawed Seph...you'd rather keep a CLEARLY inferior player just because he would be cheaper (for obvious reasons - i.e being worse) and would most likely stay with us because he wouldn't have a better chance elsewhere, really.

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07-10-2013, 08:55 PM
  #999
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Originally Posted by The Bored Man View Post
Not when you yourself said that Perron was by far the better player this season.
Just not in terms of scoring goals, which is a little concerning. Don't you agree?

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07-10-2013, 08:56 PM
  #1000
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Mixed feelings about this trade. Currently, we win this trade but in the next 2-4 years I think St Louis wins. Why? Last year, MPS showed some improvement after a few years playing the North America physical style of hockey and his stats were 9g-7a-16 in 42 gms. The quick and ugly prorating shows this translate to a 18g-14a-32pts full season. Not bad being close to 20 goals. He is only 22 yrs old after all. He was starting to use his size (6'3" & 205 lbs) and speed to drive to the net during the last half of the season-I think he was starting to get the message.

Hate to give it all up not having to see what he would be like when he reaches his potential. If I were MacT, I would have tried my hardest to move Hemsky instead of MPS and perhaps sacrificing for a similar player like Perron.
The Oilers can't afford to wait for all the young players to reach their potential. Something had to be done to make the team better now. I'm actually surprised that the Oilers were able to get Perron for Paajarvi + 2nd.
Hemsky has very little value at this point for a multitude of reasons of which have been discussed around here ad nauseum. There's no way that Hemsky + a small piece gets you a player like Perron.
We should be happy if Hemsky even nets a 3rd line grinder like Greening or somebody like that.
I don't think a lot of you understand that you have to give to get good players.

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