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[EDM/STL] David Perron for Magnus Paajarvi + 2nd '14 | Part 2

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Old
07-10-2013, 10:34 PM
  #76
HeavyHitter99
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Just so people know, Blues fans thought they were getting either Gagner back or Klefbom + for Perron

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07-10-2013, 10:34 PM
  #77
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Is there really a greater risk of subsequent concussions because of the severity or extended recovery time from the first one? I thought it was usually just the number of concussions that increased your risk, but I've never really looked into it.

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07-10-2013, 10:36 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by HeavyHitter99 View Post
Just so people know, Blues fans thought they were getting either Gagner back or Klefbom + for Perron
Klefbom was likely a pipe dream given our lack of potential high end D. Gagner as well unless we had a replacement for him lined up not that I'm saying that Gagner's value is a whole hell of a lot more than Perron's at this point.

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07-10-2013, 10:36 PM
  #79
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I don't condone that crap period. That said Yak's was less ridiculous.
Yah Perron does dive though which is one of his only negatives for me

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07-10-2013, 10:36 PM
  #80
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I'm a little choked that we dealt two of our best assets that could've/should've been in play for a winger that isn't a big bodied winger instead of a big C or an upgrade on D.



A concern for sure, but luckily it's been some time since that concussion and his brain/body should've been healing this whole time as long as he didn't have any concussions.
on the flip side, we traded a fringe bottom 6 guy for a bona fide NHL top 6 winger - our problem has been we don't have enough real NHL talent players - this is hopefully a step in the right direction - a small step, but fleshing out the roster in players that can actually play and contribute should be job #1 no matter the position

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07-10-2013, 10:37 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by HeavyHitter99 View Post
Yah Perron does dive though which is one of his only negatives for me
That and his concussion history. His hands are top notch, he's a disturber type which we lack, etc. So there is lots to like with this player IMO.

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07-10-2013, 10:38 PM
  #82
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Yah Perron does dive though which is one of his only negatives for me
We're not a good enough team to be refusing talent because they dive...

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07-10-2013, 10:38 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Klefbom was likely a pipe dream given our lack of potential high end D. Gagner as well unless we had a replacement for him lined up not that I'm saying that Gagner's value is a whole hell of a lot more than Perron's at this point.
Yah I know I was just saying how they valued him

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07-10-2013, 10:39 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
That's shameful but honestly we're missing players like that. As easy as it is to hate players that dive, every winning team seems to have them. It's important to get under the oppositions skin and with our powerplay a little embellishment here and there can go a long way.

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07-10-2013, 10:39 PM
  #85
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That and his concussion history. His hands are top notch, he's a disturber type which we lack, etc. So there is lots to like with this player IMO.
I agree

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07-10-2013, 10:39 PM
  #86
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Just found out. What a horrible trade. Mac T just traded my second favorite oiler for more of the same. Paajarvi is going to be a great power forward in this league for 10 plus years. Perron good, but not worth this. Should of traded Hemsky with 50%-75% retained salary. Short term thinking usually ends up biting you in the A$$

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07-10-2013, 10:40 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by B A T M A N View Post
We're not a good enough team to be refusing talent because they dive...
My thoughts exactly

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07-10-2013, 10:40 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Thrill22 View Post
on the flip side, we traded a fringe bottom 6 guy for a bona fide NHL top 6 winger - our problem has been we don't have enough real NHL talent players - this is hopefully a step in the right direction - a small step, but fleshing out the roster in players that can actually play and contribute should be job #1 no matter the position
Oh I agree, I'd suspect that Perron is the best player in this trade for at least the next 2 years at least offensively. I just wonder what we offer up to improve other need areas on the team? Our 1st rounder next year would likely lead that category unless Gagner is on it.

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07-10-2013, 10:41 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Shizuka View Post
Are people upset because they wanted to see Paajarvi grow with the team... or are they upset because they felt he could bring in more in return, whatever 'more' might have been?

I am sorry to see Magnus go, great kid with really good character who worked at his game even though I'm sure he was greatly discouraged after getting sent down to OKC. His skating stride was a thing of beauty. But... his game was still tentative. Yeah, he showed signs of improvement towards the end of last season but I think he still played far too gunshy. As he matures and gains confidence I think he'll manage to overcome most of this -- but it's just not in his natural makeup to battle hard. I really hope he does well in St. Louis, and I will still cheer for the kid no matter what.

Perron brings a high level of compete (something I think every one of us as Oilers fans noted the dearth of the last few seasons with very few exceptions -- and something MacT wanted to bring in to an anemic, lifeless group), to go along with a respectable offensive skillset and excellent puckhandling. He played PK by all accounts, and even stated on Gregor's show that he prefers LW. He's allegedly 6'0 and 205 lbs, so he isn't small, and on his twitter account he lists himself as a fitness fanatic. He also has a bit of 'rat' in his game, a bit of 'Marchand' to go along with those soft hands and 2 20g campaigns, 1 50 pt. and 2 40 pt. seasons already. What is not to like, guys? I feel like buying some of you beers, the way you are behaving.
3 things for me

1) I think MPS was showing enough last year and starting to put it together that he could have been a 2nd line LW for us and really develop
2) Perron's injury history scares me, sure it was one concussion but it was a BIG one, another concussion and he likely is out for a long time again
3) I don't watch much blues hockey so this is probably more just me not watching him enough, I always viewed him as a finesse player. I wanted more of a big bodied guy who threw his weight around, sounds like Perron can do that a bit (though gritty like marchand doesn't mean a grinder in the corner), and I was more thinking someone like Oshie is who I'd want. Maybe I've just seen a few too many big hit highlights from Oshie and kind of had my mind set that he's our guy (or Stewart somehow).
-I'm warming up to the trade more... though his injury history still scares me.

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07-10-2013, 10:42 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by B A T M A N View Post
We're not a good enough team to be refusing talent because they dive...
If he helps them win and dives, that's just fine.

I just cant see why anyone would not like this trade. Yes, Steen might have been a better fit, but he's UFA after next season. Perron is only 25 and proven top 6 player who slides right into the biggest hole up front. No, he's not the bigger guy you hoped for but it's not easy to acquire guys like this. MPS has been a dissapointment. Let's be frank about it. He "might" end up as good as Perron. Might...

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07-10-2013, 10:42 PM
  #91
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I was at that game. It was actually one of the first things I thought of when I heard about the trade. Hopefully that was the last time he gets booed in Edmonton.

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07-10-2013, 10:42 PM
  #92
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Is there really a greater risk of subsequent concussions because of the severity or extended recovery time from the first one? I thought it was usually just the number of concussions that increased your risk, but I've never really looked into it.
no it completely depends on the individual person, that's why they're so careful with the first one.

I'm pretty sure Bergeron and Crosby had the same concussion doc and he said Bergeron completely recovered 100% and didn't have any subsequent trouble whilst Crosby had more setbacks.

there are guys who could have several concussions in their careers and they'd be fine, and there are guys who could get one concussion and be done (Savard).

It's always a concern but the longer guys go without incident after the first one, the better the odds they will be fine.

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07-10-2013, 10:43 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by B A T M A N View Post
We're not a good enough team to be refusing talent because they dive...
I wouldn't refuse him, I'd just have a talk with him and tell him that that crap won't be looked upon very highly here.

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Yah I know I was just saying how they valued him
Fair enough.

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Originally Posted by Lay Z Boy GM View Post
That's shameful but honestly we're missing players like that. As easy as it is to hate players that dive, every winning team seems to have them. It's important to get under the oppositions skin and with our powerplay a little embellishment here and there can go a long way.
Sorry, but I have no time for that kind of crap. To each their own.

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07-10-2013, 10:44 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by darkwave09 View Post
Just found out. What a horrible trade. Mac T just traded my second favorite oiler for more of the same. Paajarvi is going to be a great power forward in this league for 10 plus years. Perron good, but not worth this. Should of traded Hemsky with 50%-75% retained salary. Short term thinking usually ends up biting you in the A$$

I'm sorry one of your faves is gone, that's always tough.

Just not sure how you got the idea that PRV was a power forward.

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07-10-2013, 10:45 PM
  #95
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I wouldn't say I'm upset, but I'd agree with both of those statements a little bit.

I think Magnus was written off a bit and this trade has a good chance of looking really, really bad in a couple years. At 22, Loui Eriksson was a 30 point player. At 22, the Sedins were 30-40 point players. I wouldn't draw a straight-line between those players and Paajarvi, but I also wouldn't write him off in the way others do. The only fact is that Paajarvi was developing, and at a rate not dissimilar to players with his background who went on to become superstars.

That he went for a very good player softens the blow a bit. However, that the Oilers had to add a significant piece - and a 2nd round pick is a significant piece for this team at this point - is troubling. I think it's likely that Paajarvi closes the offense gap a bit between him and Perron, and I think it's likely that he produces at a better points-per-salary dollar rate as soon as this season. I don't think the difference in player value is equivalent to a 2nd round pick.

I'm not upset by this trade, but I think the Oilers were:
a) impatient, which is not a good thing no matter how much that bluster might sound good on the radio, and;
b) got squeezed a bit in the brass-tacks negotiation.
This is the problem I have though -- people complain about Tambellini's sphincter tightening over deciding what to have for lunch, let alone hockey deals... yet when MacT comes in and clearly signals change is needed, and makes a change (and we didn't get fleeced on the deal, we received the better player as of now)... fans are still upset? Sorry, not trying to make you the scapegoat but it just perplexes and confounds me, and I'm just another fan. You are truly damned if you do and damned if you don't, as a front office type for this hockey team.

I'd agree that the 2nd round pick made me grit my teeth a bit too but I don't think a straight swap of the two principals involved would have been enough -- and likely MacT saw enough and heard enough from his guys, analytics and scouting teams alike, to overcompensate and land Perron.

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07-10-2013, 10:45 PM
  #96
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I was at that game. It was actually one of the first things I thought of when I heard about the trade. Hopefully that was the last time he gets booed in Edmonton.
IIRC he dove another time as well didn't he?

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07-10-2013, 10:45 PM
  #97
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And people said the same about Patrice Bergeron.
Not to mention Bergeron has had 4 Concussions including a bad one and has led his team to a cup, almost a second this year, and is Boston is about to lock him up at 6mil+ per year....obviously they're not concerned. Perron has had 1 Concussion.

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07-10-2013, 10:45 PM
  #98
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In MacT's initial press conference, he talked about the team having to expose themselves to a greater element of risk. Trading a guy like Paajarvi (and a high pick) is definitely more risk than I could ever see Tambellini dealing with. Poor guy would've had a nervous breakdown if he had to make a decision on a trade like this one. This is definitely a deal that doesn't happen under the old regime.

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07-10-2013, 10:47 PM
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Just found out. What a horrible trade. Mac T just traded my second favorite oiler for more of the same. Paajarvi is going to be a great power forward in this league for 10 plus years. Perron good, but not worth this. Should of traded Hemsky with 50%-75% retained salary. Short term thinking usually ends up biting you in the A$$


Oh wait, you're serious?

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07-10-2013, 10:48 PM
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Bryan I hate diving too and for years I would have never condoned players like that on the Oilers. But if we're going to compete with teams that do that kind of garbage, we need to be able to do it too. The sad fact is that the best teams have players that pull this kind of crap.

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