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[EDM/STL] David Perron for Magnus Paajarvi + 2nd '14 | Part 2

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07-11-2013, 01:15 AM
  #151
PeakOil
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Originally Posted by okgooil View Post
Some times I amazed at the things poeple say. THey have this ideal team in their head, then say we need this or that to be a ideal team, however they don't look around and see that the teams that wins the cups have holes. Boston has never had a true #1 C. Bergeron is a stud, but not the elite point producer most people think of. Chicago went into the year with a really unproven goalie... ect.. ect. the list goes on. No team lives up to peoples idea of what a perfect team with no holes is.
I agree, there's certainly no formula for building a team. If you can make the playoffs, and have skill or a great system or a ridiculous goaltending performance or a whole bunch of other things and a bit of luck, you can win the cup.

Trying to build a team around the most recent cup winning team would be impossible first off, and secondly it would be an ever changing proposition as the only consistent thing about recent cup winners is that they all had a bunch of really good and effective hockey players.

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07-11-2013, 01:16 AM
  #152
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Building a winning team is all about getting the most out of what you have.

The Oilers when they went to the cup had a lot of holes. But they had a lot of players that started to click once playoffs hit

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07-11-2013, 01:34 AM
  #153
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Originally Posted by okgooil View Post
Some times I amazed at the things poeple say. THey have this ideal team in their head, then say we need this or that to be a ideal team, however they don't look around and see that the teams that wins the cups have holes. Boston has never had a true #1 C. Bergeron is a stud, but not the elite point producer most people think of. Chicago went into the year with a really unproven goalie... ect.. ect. the list goes on. No team lives up to peoples idea of what a perfect team with no holes is.
This is a great point, and one that I think we tend to overlook.

On a separate note, I always liked Paajarvi, and wished he'd hit his stride with us. But the fact is, Perron is the better player. For once, we are getting the best player in a trade, and we're not the team getting a prospect who may or may not turn out better than the big name. These are exactly the kinds of moves that we wanted MacT to make this summer.

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07-11-2013, 01:38 AM
  #154
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I'm blown away by Kulemin's hit total.
Price tag on him would have likely been less than Perron - I bet you could have harvested him for a 2nd.

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07-11-2013, 01:40 AM
  #155
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Oh well I like MPS, but we all knew some of the young guys would have to be moved eventually. I was cringing at some of the proposals posted with Maggie, but I've warmed up to this return like most Oil fans.

The 2nd seems like a bit much, but I guess it gives the Blues a bit of insurance with Paajarvi being pretty raw still. Good luck Paajarvi and Welcome Perron.

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07-11-2013, 01:40 AM
  #156
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Price tag on him would have likely been less than Perron - I bet you could have harvested him for a 2nd.
They'd laugh at an offer of a 2nd for him.

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07-11-2013, 01:44 AM
  #157
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This is a great point, and one that I think we tend to overlook.

On a separate note, I always liked Paajarvi, and wished he'd hit his stride with us. But the fact is, Perron is the better player. For once, we are getting the best player in a trade, and we're not the team getting a prospect who may or may not turn out better than the big name. These are exactly the kinds of moves that we wanted MacT to make this summer.
Yah I agree. Perron is a legit second line player. He isn't old, he isn't a borderline second/third line tweener, he is a second line winger. He isn't small (I don't consider 6 foot 205 lbs small) and he gets in the face of the other team. He just completed his 24 year old season and is still young so maybe he can develop into a 25-30 goal scorer, 55-60 point producer consistantly. He isn't far from that now.

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07-11-2013, 01:44 AM
  #158
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Originally Posted by The Perfect Human View Post
Price tag on him would have likely been less than Perron - I bet you could have harvested him for a 2nd.
Came to browse but wow. Poster above is right, we would laugh at that offer for kulemin.

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07-11-2013, 01:45 AM
  #159
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Price tag on him would have likely been less than Perron - I bet you could have harvested him for a 2nd.
No it probably would have been the same if not more. You need to keep in mind the Perron deal was a salary dump, we didn't give full value

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07-11-2013, 01:47 AM
  #160
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They'd laugh at an offer of a 2nd for him.
Why? Hes been <0.5 point/game on a high-scoring team the last couple seasons, and doesn't really have much of a place on the Leafs right now with their top-6 set in stone and contracts for Kadri, Gunnarsson, Franson, and Fraser yet to be handed out. They only have 9.7M in cap space too. Gunnarsson will be looking at 3M+, Kadri at 4M+, and Franson at 2-3M. Fraser will get about 1M. They will likely need to move some cap (Kulemin) to help fill out the wings adjacent to Bolland on line 3.

Maybe a bit more than a 2nd - but definitely not something like MPS added to the package.

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07-11-2013, 01:49 AM
  #161
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Why? Hes been <0.5 point/game on a high-scoring team the last couple seasons, and doesn't really have much of a place on the Leafs right now with their top-6 set in stone and contracts for Kadri, Gunnarsson, Franson, and Fraser yet to be handed out. They only have 9.7M in cap space too. Gunnarsson will be looking at 3M+, Kadri at 4M+, and Franson at 2-3M. Fraser will get about 1M. They will likely need to move some cap (Kulemin) to help fill out the wings adjacent to Bolland on line 3.

Maybe a bit more than a 2nd - but definitely not something like MPS added to the package.
He is invaluable to the leafs. He is an elite third line winger. He is faced to shut down top lines every night and does a good job of it. He's the hardest worker on our team.

Your cap problem comment is wrong btw. We're allowed to be 10% over cap during the offseason and I'm sure we plan on a trade or two in the next three months. Maybe liles for a pick to free up room. Tons of options.

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07-11-2013, 01:52 AM
  #162
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He is invaluable to the leafs. He is an elite third line winger. He is faced to shut down top lines every night and does a good job of it. He's the hardest worker on our team.

Your cap problem comment is wrong btw. We're allowed to be 10% over cap during the offseason and I'm sure we plan on a trade or two in the next three months. Maybe liles for a pick to free up room. Tons of options.
I recognize that Kulemin is a great, great player. You call him an elite third liner. I feel he's an above-average second line winger when placed with the right complement of players.

I feel acquiring him would have made the Oilers better off than grabbing Perron, especially given the price.

The cost on Perron was MPS+2nd. I think it would have cost less to bring in Kulemin.

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07-11-2013, 01:52 AM
  #163
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Originally Posted by The Perfect Human View Post
Why? Hes been <0.5 point/game on a high-scoring team the last couple seasons, and doesn't really have much of a place on the Leafs right now with their top-6 set in stone and contracts for Kadri, Gunnarsson, Franson, and Fraser yet to be handed out. They only have 9.7M in cap space too. Gunnarsson will be looking at 3M+, Kadri at 4M+, and Franson at 2-3M. Fraser will get about 1M. They will likely need to move some cap (Kulemin) to help fill out the wings adjacent to Bolland on line 3.

Maybe a bit more than a 2nd - but definitely not something like MPS added to the package.
Franson will get 3-4M IMO, hoping MacT can find a way to bring him in.

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07-11-2013, 01:53 AM
  #164
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Why? Hes been <0.5 point/game on a high-scoring team the last couple seasons, and doesn't really have much of a place on the Leafs right now with their top-6 set in stone and contracts for Kadri, Gunnarsson, Franson, and Fraser yet to be handed out. They only have 9.7M in cap space too. Gunnarsson will be looking at 3M+, Kadri at 4M+, and Franson at 2-3M. Fraser will get about 1M. They will likely need to move some cap (Kulemin) to help fill out the wings adjacent to Bolland on line 3.

Maybe a bit more than a 2nd - but definitely not something like MPS added to the package.
Go take the trade proposal over to the Leafs board and report back. OptimusForever has already said you're off base.

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07-11-2013, 01:54 AM
  #165
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I just realized Perron is the heaviest player in our top 6 hahah

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07-11-2013, 01:54 AM
  #166
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I recognize that Kulemin is a great, great player. You call him an elite third liner. I feel he's an above-average second line winger when placed with the right complement of players.

I feel acquiring him would have made the Oilers better off than grabbing Perron, especially given the price.

The cost on Perron was MPS+2nd. I think it would have cost less to bring in Kulemin.
I'd be very happy with Perron. I think I like what kulemin brings to the game a bit more but Perron is a really really nice piece to build with this young team.

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07-11-2013, 01:56 AM
  #167
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Go take the trade proposal over to the Leafs board and report back. OptimusForever has already said you're off base.
Guaranteed off base from a leaf can pov. But I didn't come to argue just came to see how stoked you guys were for Perron! I'm excited for you guys, Oil are my second favorite team

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07-11-2013, 01:58 AM
  #168
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So as of right now:

Hall - RNH - Eberle
Perron - Gagner - Yakupov
Jones - Gordon - Hemsky
Smyth - Lander - Brown/Joensuu

Ference - Petry
Smid - J. Schultz
N. Schultz - Belov/Potter/Klefbom/Larsen

Dubnyk
Labarbera

I'd assume MacT is looking to trade Hemsky for a third line winger or a centre, and he may sign another defenceman.

Either way, this lineup is slowly starting to look more competitive.

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07-11-2013, 02:00 AM
  #169
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Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
I love Mags but his comment about St. Louis being a contending team made me pause and chuckle a little.
I did a statistical analysis on all the playoff teams for my playoff pool, and it showed St. Louis as the 3rd strongest team in the west after Chicago and L.A., just from watching the Kings and Blues series it felt like it could go either way, they are not all that far off.


I'm happy with the trade and think we are a better team for it, I'm probably one of the bigger Paajarvi "haters" on this board though. I see his upside being in the Korpikoski to the Dvorak range. I actually like Paajarvi quite a bit truthfully, I'm just not as optimistic on his future I think he could develop into a really solid contributor on the 3rd line and hold down that role for a really long time. He doesn't have the natural skill around the net to put up big numbers and I don't see ever being aggressive enough to give you the kind of sandpaper you would like from someone his size.

I've always liked Perron since he came into the league, watching his highlight clips his shot looks to be better than I gave him credit for, I suspect he will play with Gagner and think he would be a good compliment to Gagner who's a pretty darn good playmaker.

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07-11-2013, 02:01 AM
  #170
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Originally Posted by Cloned View Post
So as of right now:

Hall - RNH - Eberle
Perron - Gagner - Yakupov
Jones - Gordon - Hemsky
Smyth - Lander - Brown

Ference - Petry
Smid - J. Schultz
N. Schultz - Belov/Potter/Klefbom/Larsen

Dubnyk
Labarbera

I'd assume MacT is looking to trade Hemsky for a third line winger or a centre, and he may sign another defenceman.

Either way, this lineup is slowly starting to look more competitive.
Gagners not signed, and may end up moving depending on salary demands.

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07-11-2013, 02:01 AM
  #171
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Originally Posted by Cloned View Post
So as of right now:

Hall - RNH - Eberle
Perron - Gagner - Yakupov
Jones - Gordon - Hemsky
Smyth - Lander - Brown

Ference - Petry
Smid - J. Schultz
N. Schultz - Belov/Potter/Klefbom/Larsen

Dubnyk
Labarbera

I'd assume MacT is looking to trade Hemsky for a third line winger or a centre, and he may sign another defenceman.

Either way, this lineup is slowly starting to look more competitive.
You've gotta think so. We as fans don't want him playing on the 3rd line and I doubt he wants to be there either.

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07-11-2013, 02:04 AM
  #172
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You've gotta think so. We as fans don't want him playing on the 3rd line and I doubt he wants to be there either.
Hemsky to Columbus for Foligno. What do you guys think?

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07-11-2013, 02:07 AM
  #173
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Hemsky to Columbus for Foligno. What do you guys think?
That would be a great trade for us but I don't know if CBJ has the cap space.

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07-11-2013, 02:07 AM
  #174
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Hemsky to Columbus for Foligno. What do you guys think?
Never going to happen, Columbus wouldn't do it

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07-11-2013, 02:07 AM
  #175
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Hemsky to Columbus for Foligno. What do you guys think?
Done, would be a great trade for the club. Dubinsky would also be nice but is more of a pipe dream.

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