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Kyle Clifford to Philadelphia

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Old
07-10-2013, 04:07 AM
  #76
cheesesteak
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Originally Posted by apadilla View Post
the problem with Simmonds in his last year with LA was he tanked it, pure and simple, he thought he had "made it", and it showed. His trade to Philly was a good jolt for him, but if he had stayed in LA, he might of put up half the amount of points he did last season with Philly,
I can't really say if he tanked it his last season in LA I barely knew of Simmer at the time of the trade. What I am saying is when he was traded and the whole season after that he was called only a good 3rd liner. Now some Kings fans still act like he couldn't do half of what he's doing in LA because of the "defensive system" and the only reason he's putting up points is because of the Flyers "offensive system". There's no reason Simmer couldn't help LAs PP like he does in Philly. People make it sound like they are not allowed to play any offense...every defensive system still tries scoring on the PP where's the logic? Simmer's usually not doing something complicated he's screening goalies and has sick hand/eye that make him one of the best at batting in rebounds. What's stopping him from doing that in LA? Listening to some you'd think every good 3rd liner in a defensive system only needs to be traded to a offensive system and they'll be as good as Simmonds.

I'm not gonna get into what it would/could of been with Simmonds in LA but they won the Cup because of that trade so I wouldn't even think about it.

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07-10-2013, 04:32 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by SchennSational1022 View Post
We dont need this guy. Simmonds is already twice the player he is and Clifford is a poor mans version of him.
by 'poor mans version', are you implying he is half the player simmonds is?

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07-10-2013, 04:48 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by apadilla View Post
the problem with Simmonds in his last year with LA was he tanked it, pure and simple, he thought he had "made it", and it showed. His trade to Philly was a good jolt for him, but if he had stayed in LA, he might of put up half the amount of points he did last season with Philly,
Not exactly. Murrays system didn't allow for any offense. If he wouldn't have been traded and would have played under sutter, simmonds would absolutely flourish and be a premier 2 way forward.

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07-10-2013, 08:16 AM
  #79
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Simmonds is an integral part of Philly's PP. He has the 2nd most PP Goals on the team 2 straight seasons. Clifford hasn't played on a regular PP unit since the Barrie Colts I bet.

They're not comparable and frankly they're used differently and it's an apples and oranges comparison. Kinda silly.

Having said that, with a drought on LWs in LA, Clifford is going to get a higher raise than most expect him to get, maybe even an offer sheet from another team that could stretch the Kings out a bit.

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07-10-2013, 08:35 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Hitman47 View Post
Not exactly. Murrays system didn't allow for any offense. If he wouldn't have been traded and would have played under sutter, simmonds would absolutely flourish and be a premier 2 way forward.
I think both Flyer and Kings fans should agree on what you said here. Sutter would love Simmonds and the way he plays. And he would get rewarded for it. This whole "half as good" and "points cut in half if he was in LA" is BS. Because if that is true, the opposite must be true as well. Kopitar wouldn't go from 70-80 point guy to 140-160 if he left LA. Simmonds got PP time and he has evolved as a player. He got better with more years experience. That simple. We shouldn't be surprised that he is better ar 24 than he was at 22.

As for Clifford, the OP deal doesn't make sense for LA.

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Old
07-10-2013, 03:09 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
Go for it. You'll be talking to air. People who sit and look at Couturier's stats and then draw conclusions are his worth are morons. He's 20. He hasn't been put in a position to consistently put up points. But if you think it's a fair deal, keep thinkin Butch, that's what you're good at.
I guess you missed the sarcasm.

And Clifford is only 21.

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Old
07-10-2013, 03:24 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by markisonfire View Post
That's fine. I think Couturier is the better player, too. I was being facetious. At the same time, I'd take Clifford's 7g 7a +1 to Couturier's 4g 11a -8 last season.
Couturier was facing much, much tougher competition than Clifford was, hence the -8.

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Old
07-10-2013, 03:30 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Telos View Post
LA would need someone like Read, though we wouldn't be able to afford him financially. If we traded Clifford, we'd need another cheap left winger coming back. LA can't afford to spare any left wings at the moment.

2nd line left wing is the only team need, we are solid everywhere else.
how do we need a 2nd line left wing ?????
Frattin or Toffoli not enough ????

I am more concerned about the fact that we won't have a 3rd line.
We had the chance to create a beast 3rd line but the players were traded away for crap.

right now it looks like

Frattin/Williams - Kopitar - Brown
Toffoli - Richards - Carter
??? - ??? - ???/Williams/Frattin
Clifford - Lewis - Nolan

we have 2 great forward lines and 1 hell of a stopper line.
I was really hoping to keep Loktionov to create something
like
Penner - Loktionov - Williams 3rd line

and no, i didn't forget King and Stoll,
i just think these guys don't cut it and we should move on

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07-10-2013, 03:54 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Kurrilino View Post
how do we need a 2nd line left wing ?????
Frattin or Toffoli not enough ????

I am more concerned about the fact that we won't have a 3rd line.
We had the chance to create a beast 3rd line but the players were traded away for crap.

right now it looks like

Frattin/Williams - Kopitar - Brown
Toffoli - Richards - Carter
??? - ??? - ???/Williams/Frattin
Clifford - Lewis - Nolan

we have 2 great forward lines and 1 hell of a stopper line.
I was really hoping to keep Loktionov to create something
like
Penner - Loktionov - Williams 3rd line

and no, i didn't forget King and Stoll,
i just think these guys don't cut it and we should move on
You're wrong. Your hate for Stoll is ridiculous. He is one of the top third-line centers in the league, there's no other way to look at it. He could play second-line center on some teams.

Brown - Kopitar - Williams
Toffoli - Richards - Carter
Frattin - Stoll - King
Clifford - Lewis - Nolan

Nothing wrong with that.

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Old
07-10-2013, 03:54 PM
  #85
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on pace for - 12 goals 24 points, TOI on 10:21 per game
Great 3rd liner.

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07-10-2013, 04:01 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by OilerFan4Life View Post
Or you just offersheet Clifford.

If you';re sold on the big guy, give him 3 million/year....lose a 2nd....Kings won't match that IMO
Kings will match any offer sheet IMO. The only way they are forced to move him is if Clifford insists on a trade to a team that will give him top 6-9 ice time and opportunity. I am sure his agent would be happy with such a scenario since that would mean better stats resulting in better contract offers next time around.

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Old
07-10-2013, 04:31 PM
  #87
apadilla
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurrilino View Post
how do we need a 2nd line left wing ?????
Frattin or Toffoli not enough ????

I am more concerned about the fact that we won't have a 3rd line.
We had the chance to create a beast 3rd line but the players were traded away for crap.

right now it looks like

Frattin/Williams - Kopitar - Brown
Toffoli - Richards - Carter
??? - ??? - ???/Williams/Frattin
Clifford - Lewis - Nolan

we have 2 great forward lines and 1 hell of a stopper line.
I was really hoping to keep Loktionov to create something
like
Penner - Loktionov - Williams 3rd line

and no, i didn't forget King and Stoll,
i just think these guys don't cut it and we should move on
trust me, stoll cuts it, and then some,

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Old
07-11-2013, 12:45 AM
  #88
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so, the OP proposes the Flyers give up another defensemen for ANOTHER forward?.. sounds about right over in Philly land.

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07-11-2013, 12:48 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Face Wash View Post
Simmonds is an integral part of Philly's PP. He has the 2nd most PP Goals on the team 2 straight seasons. Clifford hasn't played on a regular PP unit since the Barrie Colts I bet.

They're not comparable and frankly they're used differently and it's an apples and oranges comparison. Kinda silly.

Having said that, with a drought on LWs in LA, Clifford is going to get a higher raise than most expect him to get, maybe even an offer sheet from another team that could stretch the Kings out a bit.
I can't see clifford signing a offer sheet. Hes to much a team player and loved in la. He didn't even file for arbitration. He knows hes got a good spot on a contender.

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07-11-2013, 04:19 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by KingCanadain1976 View Post
I can't see clifford signing a offer sheet. Hes to much a team player and loved in la. He didn't even file for arbitration. He knows hes got a good spot on a contender.
https://twitter.com/mayorNHL/status/355100865675268096
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Lombardi on if a deal w/ Clifford is imminent- 'It gets closer every day, but is it close enough...don't think we're far off w/ any of them'

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07-11-2013, 04:39 AM
  #91
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I can't really say if he tanked it his last season in LA I barely knew of Simmer at the time of the trade. What I am saying is when he was traded and the whole season after that he was called only a good 3rd liner. Now some Kings fans still act like he couldn't do half of what he's doing in LA because of the "defensive system" and the only reason he's putting up points is because of the Flyers "offensive system". There's no reason Simmer couldn't help LAs PP like he does in Philly. People make it sound like they are not allowed to play any offense...every defensive system still tries scoring on the PP where's the logic? Simmer's usually not doing something complicated he's screening goalies and has sick hand/eye that make him one of the best at batting in rebounds. What's stopping him from doing that in LA? Listening to some you'd think every good 3rd liner in a defensive system only needs to be traded to a offensive system and they'll be as good as Simmonds.

I'm not gonna get into what it would/could of been with Simmonds in LA but they won the Cup because of that trade so I wouldn't even think about it.
First of all, Simmonds wasn't anything spectacular in his last season. And yes system does matter. Simmonds couldn't stand in the crease with out getting wiped out because the west is known for tight defense.

Simmonds would be a very good 3rd liner on the kings. Philly system and the open eastern conference style helps players like him do well.

Simmonds had very good moments and invisible moments. I'm not calling the flyers out, but you need to watch kings game with him.

I'm glad you guys like him and he's doing good there.

I for one just think he wouldn't do as good back here.

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07-11-2013, 08:47 AM
  #92
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First of all, Simmonds wasn't anything spectacular in his last season. And yes system does matter. Simmonds couldn't stand in the crease with out getting wiped out because the west is known for tight defense.

Simmonds would be a very good 3rd liner on the kings. Philly system and the open eastern conference style helps players like him do well.

Simmonds had very good moments and invisible moments. I'm not calling the flyers out, but you need to watch kings game with him.

I'm glad you guys like him and he's doing good there.

I for one just think he wouldn't do as good back here.
How come the only players that get this cross conference scrutinization are forwards? Couldn't we apply this same logic to goaltenders? I mean if the defenses in the West are putting up walls in front of their goaltenders like some around here would lead you to believe; wouldn't it be fair to say Jonathan Quick wouldn't be as good if he played in the East?

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07-11-2013, 08:50 AM
  #93
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everytime I hear his name, I always think of that big red dog

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07-11-2013, 09:01 AM
  #94
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everytime I hear his name, I always think of that big red dog
Finally somebody said what needed to be said

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07-11-2013, 01:34 PM
  #95
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How come the only players that get this cross conference scrutinization are forwards? Couldn't we apply this same logic to goaltenders? I mean if the defenses in the West are putting up walls in front of their goaltenders like some around here would lead you to believe; wouldn't it be fair to say Jonathan Quick wouldn't be as good if he played in the East?
Hank is pretty good...

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everytime I hear his name, I always think of that big red dog
There's quite a controversy among Kings fans. Some prefer "The Colonel" while others prefer "The Big Red Dog."

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07-11-2013, 01:50 PM
  #96
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How come the only players that get this cross conference scrutinization are forwards? Couldn't we apply this same logic to goaltenders? I mean if the defenses in the West are putting up walls in front of their goaltenders like some around here would lead you to believe; wouldn't it be fair to say Jonathan Quick wouldn't be as good if he played in the East?
Because the goalies performance is tied to his own teams defense and the forwards performance is tied to the competitions defense. Quick would put up just as good numbers on the Bruins but not just as good on the Flyers. Combine that the Flyers play a more open system than most of the league, especially teams in the West with the teams in the East, in general, is not as focused on defense as the West and you have a formula for increased production for forwards when going from the West to the East and more specifically to the Flyers.

It's not as pronounced as some people seem to think it is but, when the Kings trade for somebody, I know that I shouldn't expect the production they had with their former team.

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07-11-2013, 01:57 PM
  #97
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[QUOTE=Reclamation Project;69075717]Hank is pretty good...[QUOTE]

What does that have to do with anything?

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07-11-2013, 02:05 PM
  #98
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Because the goalies performance is tied to his own teams defense and the forwards performance is tied to the competitions defense. Quick would put up just as good numbers on the Bruins but not just as good on the Flyers. Combine that the Flyers play a more open system than most of the league, especially teams in the West with the teams in the East, in general, is not as focused on defense as the West and you have a formula for increased production for forwards when going from the West to the East and more specifically to the Flyers.

It's not as pronounced as some people seem to think it is but, when the Kings trade for somebody, I know that I shouldn't expect the production they had with their former team.
That's really the only point that I was trying to make. Players benefit from playing in certain systems, certainly, but forwards seem to be the only players that get this sort of treatment. I can certainly admit that Simmonds wouldn't be a thirty goal in L.A., but some people around here would lead you to believe his numbers would be cut in half, which is basically only used to discount a player's value. People talk about the defensive differences between the Kings and the Flyers like they're comparing the mid 90's Devils to a pick up team at a drop-in hockey session.

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07-11-2013, 02:29 PM
  #99
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That's really the only point that I was trying to make. Players benefit from playing in certain systems, certainly, but forwards seem to be the only players that get this sort of treatment. I can certainly admit that Simmonds wouldn't be a thirty goal in L.A., but some people around here would lead you to believe his numbers would be cut in half, which is basically only used to discount a player's value. People talk about the defensive differences between the Kings and the Flyers like they're comparing the mid 90's Devils to a pick up team at a drop-in hockey session.
You need to read a few trade threads with toronto then. Every time Bernier was being discussed it was brought up that his numbers were inflated by playing behind our defense / system(which had a rough year injury wise) Its a typical HF phenomonen, devalue the other teams player to try and screw down the price.

I wouldn't trade Clifford, He's pretty good at what he does and still has a bit of potential.

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07-11-2013, 02:35 PM
  #100
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How come the only players that get this cross conference scrutinization are forwards? Couldn't we apply this same logic to goaltenders? I mean if the defenses in the West are putting up walls in front of their goaltenders like some around here would lead you to believe; wouldn't it be fair to say Jonathan Quick wouldn't be as good if he played in the East?
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What does that have to do with anything?
Goaltenders rely on the defense in front of them. The Rangers have a good defense. Hank is an incredible goalie on his own, but it also helps he has a great defense in front of him.

Forwards rely on offensive talent around them. Goalies rely on the defense in front of them. It's comparable. Both would put up great numbers on their own, but being behind a great defensive system obviously helps. The West is a more defensive style of hockey and the East is more offensive.

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