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Free Agent Friend-Z Part III - Moore please?

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07-10-2013, 09:56 PM
  #901
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
http://www.newsday.com/sports/hockey...gers-1.5660948

The Rangers aren't giving Stepan a 2 year contract worth more than $3M per.
Sounds like it could be a 3 year deal. But if it's 5 at that price, I won't complain

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07-10-2013, 09:58 PM
  #902
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Similar to Giroux deal for Stepan would be my guess. 3 years at 3.5/3.75 mill.

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07-10-2013, 09:59 PM
  #903
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Hoping for a 4 or 5 year deal, but I'd settle for 3..

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07-10-2013, 09:59 PM
  #904
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Originally Posted by NikC View Post
Sather stated before FA started that they want to leave openings for youth, which is fine because we had no $ anyway.

I still think we see a trade to either free up some space or bring in another scorer. I have to think that outside of Krieder and Miller, they are looking at hopefully McIlrath, Lindberg, or Fasth making the team. I think Kristo might have a shot as well. pretty exciting stuff with a new coach coming in as well.

With BR getting bought out next year and the cap going up i'm sure we'll land another top line C in FA....
There are a lot of quality UFA forwards next offseason. If Stepan continues to progress and shows he can be that top line C, you can roll with this up the middle going forward:

Stepan - Brassard - Miller/Lindberg - plug

Then you sign a much needed top 6 winger with that space. Here's a shortlist of some upcoming UFA forwards in 2014. I'm assuming most of these guys will never make it close to July:

Vrbata, Moulson, Brown, Steen, Pavelski, Callahan, Michalek, Legwand, Bergeron, Pominville, Kessel, Cammalleri, Sedins, Stastny, Marleau, Thornton, Vanek, Gaborik, Heatley.

Buyout Richards, sign Sedins? AV and Lundqvist could lure them over here, and it might be possible if cap goes up enough Only issue is they are getting up there (will be 33 at end of this season) and it could turn into a Richards situation all over again...

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07-11-2013, 12:23 AM
  #905
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Proof?
Proof of what?
The Rangers wouldn't offer Kreider? they didn't. The team is high on Kreider, unlike you.

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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Paajarvi is a pretty similar player to kreider
No he is not.

I don't believe in polls, but this one is your own.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...php?p=67300801

You have been rejected by your own HF keyboard warriors brethren.

Yet, you still post the same crap.

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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
I would trade Kreider for another Hagelin any day of the week.
You'd trade Kreider for a bag of pucks, we know.

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07-11-2013, 01:44 AM
  #906
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Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
Proof of what?
The Rangers wouldn't offer Kreider? they didn't. The team is high on Kreider, unlike you.
The team couldn't take on Perron's contract, especially with Stepan still needing to be re-signed. Perron was never in dicussion for the Rangers ever since they decided to retain Richards.

Quote:
No he is not.

I don't believe in polls, but this one is your own.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...php?p=67300801

You have been rejected by your own HF keyboard warriors brethren.

Yet, you still post the same crap.
I have posted my opinions regarding the comparison between the two players. MPS had more goals this season than Kreider had in his 49 stint. They were both drafted same year, MPS was more highly regarded after being drafted 10th overall relative to Kreider's 19th. I feel both lack the fundamental vision for the game to take on the next step in their development as 1st line players, but both have world class size, shot and speed.

Look at their respective WJC totals and WC totals:

Kreider 10g 3a 13 pts in 13 GP (WJC)
Paajarvi 6g 13 a 19 pts in 19 GP (WJC) *Paajarvi played as 17 yr old I believe in 2008 in 4th line role.

Kreider 3g 2a 5 pts in 13 GP (WC)
Paajarvi 7g 9a 16 pts in 19 GP (WC)

Now let's look at NHL vs. AHL totals:

NHL:
Kreider: 49 GP 8G 4 A 12 Pts, 0.13 GPG, 0.24 PPG
Paajarvi: 163 GP 26G 32 A 58 Pts, 0.15 GPG, 0.35 PPG

AHL:
Kreider: 48 GP 12 G 11 A 23 PTS, 0.25 GPG, 0.47 PPG
Paajarvi: 86 GP 13 G 43 A 55 Pts, 0.14 GPG, 0.63 PPG

As you can see, they score at similar rates point totals wise, with mostly advantage to MPS, but Kreider is usually better natural goal scorer.

One is considered an elite, blue chip prospect, the other is throw in tweener type. Same age, same position, same height, speed is main asset, etc.

I believe both are going to be fine players in this league, Doug Armstrom isn't an idiot. He isn't going to give away one of the top 30 possession players over the past 5 yrs and naturally gifted goal scorer for scraps. Paajarvi, like Kreider is an enticing piece due to size and speed, maybe there is some untapped potential in him.

Quote:
You'd trade Kreider for a bag of pucks, we know.
No I wouldn't.


Last edited by Kershaw: 07-11-2013 at 02:05 AM.
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07-11-2013, 05:00 AM
  #907
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Stepan easily could make the argument he is worth around $4 million off of the last two seasons in which his 95 points (35-60) rank 17th among NHL centers—and third behind Steven Stamkos and John Tavares of those 23 or younger— but without the leverage that comes with arbitration, it is hard to believe he will be able to command close to that number.

Though there is a cushion of an additional $6.43 million built into the summer that would allow the club to go through training camp before cutting down to $64.3 million, the Blueshirts are attempting to operate under the constraints of the season cap.
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/range...ontent=Rangers

This is after 6 weeks of Brooks writing Stepan is going to get a long-term deal if McDonagh received a long-term deal. All of the indications from the media are Stepan will get a long-term deal. It won't be the 2 year bridge contract for players coming out of entry level and not being arbitration eligible.

Constraints of the season cap? The Rangers have so many forwards under contract.

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07-11-2013, 05:02 AM
  #908
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/range...ontent=Rangers

This is after 6 weeks of Brooks writing Stepan is going to get a long-term deal if McDonagh received a long-term deal. All of the indications from the media are Stepan will get a long-term deal. It won't be the 2 year bridge contract for players coming out of entry level and not being arbitration eligible.

Constraints of the season cap? The Rangers have so many forwards under contract.
We have 3.3 now at the moment with Johnson still on the roster (660K).. That is about 4M, then when Asham/Powe sent down that clears almost an additional 2M.. Stepan should get 5X4 and be done with it. sign him long term.

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07-11-2013, 06:28 AM
  #909
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Moore, who is projected to be the Rangers’ fourth-line center, a role he had his first time around on Broadway on the popular, effective and energetic HMO Line with Ryan Hollweg and Jed Ortmeyer, said the decision to sit out last season, “was very difficult ... but at the same time, definitely the right decision.
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/range...ontent=Rangers

Makes Brian Boyle and his $1.7M cap hit expendable in a trade.

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07-11-2013, 06:49 AM
  #910
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/range...ontent=Rangers

Makes Brian Boyle and his $1.7M cap hit expendable in a trade.
That's what i've been saying.

Moore, who revealed he has kept himself in physical shape, will be getting majority of the defensive zone faceoffs. Vigneault utilizes zone starts. Moore is our best faceoff guy by default. Moore is a solid penalty killer as well.

Boyle, who is a natural center, will be pushed out of his natural position and position of value. At this point he becomes an overpaid, slow skating winger with little offensive production.

Pyatt, Boyle, Asham, Powe are all replaceable and expendable.

Clark had a chat on Rangers.com, and was asked about the group of NHL-ready prospects. The Rangers want these kids earning spots. Kristo, Fast, Lindberg, and Miller were mentioned specifically and with Callahan and Hagelin recovering from surgery and probably unable to start the season, the odds of one or two of these kids earning their spot increases.

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07-11-2013, 07:16 AM
  #911
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I still think if MacT eats 2.5 million of Hemskys contract then Sather woud move him Boyle and say Powe for another contract dump

Its not perfect but
Nash, Stepan, Callahan
Hagelin, Richards, Hemsky
Zuccarello, Brassard, Kreider
Asham/Haley/Pyatt, Moore, Dorsett

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07-11-2013, 07:38 AM
  #912
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
The team couldn't take on Perron's contract, especially with Stepan still needing to be re-signed. Perron was never in dicussion for the Rangers ever since they decided to retain Richards.



I have posted my opinions regarding the comparison between the two players. MPS had more goals this season than Kreider had in his 49 stint. They were both drafted same year, MPS was more highly regarded after being drafted 10th overall relative to Kreider's 19th. I feel both lack the fundamental vision for the game to take on the next step in their development as 1st line players, but both have world class size, shot and speed.

Look at their respective WJC totals and WC totals:

Kreider 10g 3a 13 pts in 13 GP (WJC)
Paajarvi 6g 13 a 19 pts in 19 GP (WJC) *Paajarvi played as 17 yr old I believe in 2008 in 4th line role.

Kreider 3g 2a 5 pts in 13 GP (WC)
Paajarvi 7g 9a 16 pts in 19 GP (WC)

Now let's look at NHL vs. AHL totals:

NHL:
Kreider: 49 GP 8G 4 A 12 Pts, 0.13 GPG, 0.24 PPG
Paajarvi: 163 GP 26G 32 A 58 Pts, 0.15 GPG, 0.35 PPG

AHL:
Kreider: 48 GP 12 G 11 A 23 PTS, 0.25 GPG, 0.47 PPG
Paajarvi: 86 GP 13 G 43 A 55 Pts, 0.14 GPG, 0.63 PPG

As you can see, they score at similar rates point totals wise, with mostly advantage to MPS, but Kreider is usually better natural goal scorer.

One is considered an elite, blue chip prospect, the other is throw in tweener type. Same age, same position, same height, speed is main asset, etc.

I believe both are going to be fine players in this league, Doug Armstrom isn't an idiot. He isn't going to give away one of the top 30 possession players over the past 5 yrs and naturally gifted goal scorer for scraps. Paajarvi, like Kreider is an enticing piece due to size and speed, maybe there is some untapped potential in him.



No I wouldn't.
Christ what a **** show this forum is becoming. Typical gamer response. It's all about the numbers, reading a piece of paper.

I find it humorous that you claim the reason the rangers wouldn't trade Kreider for Perron is because the rangers couldn't fit Perron's cap hit. YET, the Rangers wouldn't deal Kreider for Rick Nash. What don't you comprehend.

The stats do not show it all. Kreider is listed almost 20 pounds heavier than Paajarvi. They are NOT the same player. They do not play the same games. And the only reason Paajarvi has played so many more NHL games is because EDM has had garbage teams the past 3 years. They had no depth, hardly any vets. They had no choice but to play him. I am not saying he is a bad hockey player but he has certainly had more time in the NHL. And if you really want to go off of stats, lets look at trends and not just totals. He had 34 points in 80 games in his first year. The following season he bounced between Oklahoma and Edmonton. He had 8 points in 41 GP two years ago. This past year he got back up near his rookie season production at 16 points in 42 GP. So we'll say he is a 35 point player to this point. I am not impressed. Paajarvi has skills but he is a different player than Kreider. Kreider is bigger overall. I'd love to see how these two pan out this season. Let's talk at the end of the 2014 season.

Regardless of the comparison...this isn't NHL '13 or '14. I know your eyes light up every time a scoring forward is moved and you start complaining why couldn't the rangers trade for him. Perron is 25 and has had 2-3 concussions already, missing significant amount of time. The Rangers can't afford to take his cap hit with his injury risk no matter who we could've offered for him. I wouldn't trade anything of significance from our prospect pool for Perron.

The bottom line is Perron has been a 40-50 point player in his career with concussion problems and you want to trade our best prospect for him. It's pathetic. Nash has been a 65-75 point player and this organization wouldn't trade Kreider for him. But why trust Gordie Clark and our scouts? Certainly a teenager knows more about Kreider than them.

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07-11-2013, 08:38 AM
  #913
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Christ what a **** show this forum is becoming. Typical gamer response. It's all about the numbers, reading a piece of paper.

I find it humorous that you claim the reason the rangers wouldn't trade Kreider for Perron is because the rangers couldn't fit Perron's cap hit. YET, the Rangers wouldn't deal Kreider for Rick Nash. What don't you comprehend.

The stats do not show it all. Kreider is listed almost 20 pounds heavier than Paajarvi. They are NOT the same player. They do not play the same games. And the only reason Paajarvi has played so many more NHL games is because EDM has had garbage teams the past 3 years. They had no depth, hardly any vets. They had no choice but to play him. I am not saying he is a bad hockey player but he has certainly had more time in the NHL. And if you really want to go off of stats, lets look at trends and not just totals. He had 34 points in 80 games in his first year. The following season he bounced between Oklahoma and Edmonton. He had 8 points in 41 GP two years ago. This past year he got back up near his rookie season production at 16 points in 42 GP. So we'll say he is a 35 point player to this point. I am not impressed. Paajarvi has skills but he is a different player than Kreider. Kreider is bigger overall. I'd love to see how these two pan out this season. Let's talk at the end of the 2014 season.

Regardless of the comparison...this isn't NHL '13 or '14. I know your eyes light up every time a scoring forward is moved and you start complaining why couldn't the rangers trade for him. Perron is 25 and has had 2-3 concussions already, missing significant amount of time. The Rangers can't afford to take his cap hit with his injury risk no matter who we could've offered for him. I wouldn't trade anything of significance from our prospect pool for Perron.

The bottom line is Perron has been a 40-50 point player in his career with concussion problems and you want to trade our best prospect for him. It's pathetic. Nash has been a 65-75 point player and this organization wouldn't trade Kreider for him. But why trust Gordie Clark and our scouts? Certainly a teenager knows more about Kreider than them.
Not to mention the 2012-2013 season was Kreider's first full professional season. Had little opportunity under Tortorella in a shortened NHL season, and had little talent to play with in Hartford. Unless we are counting Newbury as talent.

Contrast to the potential of this season. Under a new coaching staff, a major influx of real young talent in Hartford, should he need any time there, and a good couple of playoff games to build on.

I didn't realize players plateau at the age of 21, in their rookie season. Kreider just turned 22 in April.

Callahan and Hagelin will most likely miss the start of the season. There is a good opportunity for Kreider to start in a larger role with players who aren't garbage (Asham, Powe) and get off to a good start.

This season, it is a completely different situation. Different coaching staff. Regular full season.

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07-11-2013, 08:46 AM
  #914
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/range...ontent=Rangers

This is after 6 weeks of Brooks writing Stepan is going to get a long-term deal if McDonagh received a long-term deal. All of the indications from the media are Stepan will get a long-term deal. It won't be the 2 year bridge contract for players coming out of entry level and not being arbitration eligible.

Constraints of the season cap? The Rangers have so many forwards under contract.
I'd gladly give Stepan a 3+ year deal at $3.7-$4M AAV. He's improved ever year and even if he stops developing tomorrow, he's still a great #2C with a solid two-way game. That cap hit is the going rate for a player of that caliber.

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07-11-2013, 08:56 AM
  #915
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MPS is already a superior 2-way player, higher NHL point producer and has better passing ability. Kreider has better natural shot and may be the better goal scorer. I feel both lack the hockey sense to take the next step in their development, but we'll see how it goes.
He's been a pro longer than Kreider. Comparing their production is pointless. MPS is a solid defensive winger who has below average offensive tools. He's a mediocre passer and his shot is lousy. He's produced by either getting to the net without the puck, or using his speed to beat defenders so he can crash the net that way. I would certainly like to see Kreider do more of that, but Kreider's shot is far better than MPS' ability to pass or shoot. He's also bulkier, faster, and plays with more sandpaper when he's comfortable in his role.

Kreider really struggled this year, but he had massive expectations put upon him and that, combined with the constant shuffle between Hartford and NY, likely overwhelmed him. In his final stint in Hartford he looked excellent. He just needs to keep working at it.

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07-11-2013, 08:57 AM
  #916
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The potential of what Kreider CAN be is more important to the Rangers than what Perron currently IS.

Kreider might never reach that potential. He may never even come close. But he's the only prospect we have that has a chance at it.

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07-11-2013, 09:04 AM
  #917
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The potential of what Kreider CAN be is more important to the Rangers than what Perron currently IS.

Kreider might never reach that potential. He may never even come close. But he's the only prospect we have that has a chance at it.
Kristo is very, very similar to Perron actually. Only real difference in style is that Perron prefers the off-wing. Hard to say if Kristo will reach that level, but the style of play is virtually identical.

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07-11-2013, 09:14 AM
  #918
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That's what i've been saying.

Moore, who revealed he has kept himself in physical shape, will be getting majority of the defensive zone faceoffs. Vigneault utilizes zone starts. Moore is our best faceoff guy by default. Moore is a solid penalty killer as well.

Boyle, who is a natural center, will be pushed out of his natural position and position of value. At this point he becomes an overpaid, slow skating winger with little offensive production.

Pyatt, Boyle, Asham, Powe are all replaceable and expendable.

Clark had a chat on Rangers.com, and was asked about the group of NHL-ready prospects. The Rangers want these kids earning spots. Kristo, Fast, Lindberg, and Miller were mentioned specifically and with Callahan and Hagelin recovering from surgery and probably unable to start the season, the odds of one or two of these kids earning their spot increases.
In my opinion, if anyone made it out of camp onto next year's roster it will be either Miller or Kristo, I dont think Lindberg or Fast really have that great of a chance.

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07-11-2013, 10:12 AM
  #919
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In my opinion, if anyone made it out of camp onto next year's roster it will be either Miller or Kristo, I dont think Lindberg or Fast really have that great of a chance.
We will see. Lindberg and Fast are both responsible players that have been playing professional hockey for a couple of years now, and have been two of the better young players in Swedish Elite League. Lindberg winning MVP of the playoffs.

But, I agree Kristo and Miller are probably closer.

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07-11-2013, 10:19 AM
  #920
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We will see. Lindberg and Fast are both responsible players that have been playing professional hockey for a couple of years now, and have been two of the better young players in Swedish Elite League. Lindberg winning MVP of the playoffs.

But, I agree Kristo and Miller are probably closer.
Personally, I dont think you're going to see Kristo, Miller, Fast, or Lindberg for any extended/consistent time period with the Rangers this season. I think the Rangers stock piling forwards proves they'd prefer each of them to get another year of seasoning unless they make it impossible to send them down in camp

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07-11-2013, 10:39 AM
  #921
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Personally, I dont think you're going to see Kristo, Miller, Fast, or Lindberg for any extended/consistent time period with the Rangers this season. I think the Rangers stock piling forwards proves they'd prefer each of them to get another year of seasoning unless they make it impossible to send them down in camp
Callahan and Hagelin may not be ready at the start of the season.

There's no way Asham and Powe remain on the roster with the needed cap room to re-sign Stepan and Zuccarello (who, unless is traded is guaranteed to play for the Rangers, they can't walk away from an arbitration award less than 3.5).

Nash
Kreider
Zuccarello
Pouliot
Dorsett
Pyatt
Boyle

That's 7 healthy wingers that will most likely be on the roster to start the season. Leaves one spot for Miller, Kristo, Fast to compete for, to start the season, at least.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

I still think at least one of Boyle and Pyatt need to be moved to open up some cap room.

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07-11-2013, 10:43 AM
  #922
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Callahan and Hagelin may not be ready at the start of the season.
True. But when they're ready, they go back in the lineup. So the other guys would not see "any extended/consistent time period" like BRB said.

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07-11-2013, 10:44 AM
  #923
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True. But when they're ready, they go back in the lineup. So the other guys would not see "any extended/consistent time period" like BRB said.
And that's fine.

Still have to see how Pouliot pans out, as well. Will Pyatt and Boyle be around? Still some questions heading into the season.

And I am of the belief that the organization is high on that crop (Kristo, Miller, Fast, Lindberg) and if they prove ready, they may make the necessary space on the roster for them at some point in the season, like they did with McDonagh when they traded Roszival.

Pyatt, Boyle, Powe, Asham are all expendable players.

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07-11-2013, 12:35 PM
  #924
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And that's fine.

Still have to see how Pouliot pans out, as well. Will Pyatt and Boyle be around? Still some questions heading into the season.

And I am of the belief that the organization is high on that crop (Kristo, Miller, Fast, Lindberg) and if they prove ready, they may make the necessary space on the roster for them at some point in the season, like they did with McDonagh when they traded Roszival.

Pyatt, Boyle, Powe, Asham are all expendable players.
While I think Boyle is overpaid, I wouldnt call him expendable. The other 3 I couldnt care less about.

But Boyle can be a solid piece on the 4th line.

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07-11-2013, 12:50 PM
  #925
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
The potential of what Kreider CAN be is more important to the Rangers than what Perron currently IS.

Kreider might never reach that potential. He may never even come close. But he's the only prospect we have that has a chance at it.
I'm expecting Kreider to flourish under AV's system, much like Kesler, Raymond, and Burrows.

Let's remember it took Kesler nearly 4 full seasons to "break out." People are just way to impatient.

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