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Is Eric Lindros hall of fame worthy?

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Old
07-10-2013, 01:42 PM
  #126
Krishna
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Forsberg will probably get in eventually

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07-10-2013, 02:00 PM
  #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
It sounds like, by your standards, there would be very few people in the HOF outside of guys like Gretzky, Orr, Mario, Howe, and the Rocket.

However, your standards aren't the ones used by the HOF.
Yeah, ok. That's what I've been saying. I haven't once said that every single player is different and every case is different and that there is a lot more to it than just PPG stats. You have really been making some good points in this debate related to why my opinion is invalid. As far as my standards not being the ones used by the HHOF (i.e. each player being evaluated as a separate case, no brightline rule for induction), it sure seems like they are since, you know, Lindros was just passed over yet another year for hall induction. I know, I know. I'm stupid and the only reason is because the voters think he is a butthead. Neeley and Bure! Whaaaaa!

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Originally Posted by FlyerTime View Post
So do you think Forsberg should be in?
I'd say Forsberg has a better case than Lindros, and I'd probably give him my vote. He has a higher PPG pace in the NHL (more points in fewer games), more hardward, a Stanley Cup, and played over 200 games in the SEL as well with more than a PPG there too (which IIRC, international play is considered as well as the NHL play). So even though Forsberg played in fewer games in the NHL, his stats were better, had over 200 games in a different professional league which he also dominated, and didn't have the off-ice issues that Lindros had. This is what I mean by every case is different and there is no brightline rule. If Lindros's numbers were higher in the same number of games, I'd give him my vote. But they aren't. Forsberg's are (and Forsberg had the 200+ SEL games as well).

I'm pretty surprised that people are upset with my opinion on this matter.

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07-10-2013, 02:03 PM
  #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Yeah, ok. That's what I've been saying. I haven't once said that every single player is different and every case is different and that there is a lot more to it than just PPG stats. You have really been making some good points in this debate related to why my opinion is invalid. As far as my standards not being the ones used by the HHOF (i.e. each player being evaluated as a separate case, no brightline rule for induction), it sure seems like they are since, you know, Lindros was just passed over yet another year for hall induction. I know, I know. I'm stupid and the only reason is because the voters think he is a butthead. Neeley and Bure! Whaaaaa!



I'd say Forsberg has a better case than Lindros, and I'd probably give him my vote. He has a higher PPG pace in the NHL (more points in fewer games), more hardward, a Stanley Cup, and played over 200 games in the SEL as well with more than a PPG there too (which IIRC, international play is considered as well as the NHL play). So even though Forsberg played in fewer games in the NHL, his stats were better, had over 200 games in a different professional league which he also dominated, and didn't have the off-ice issues that Lindros had. This is what I mean by every case is different and there is no brightline rule. If Lindros's numbers were higher in the same number of games, I'd give him my vote. But they aren't. Forsberg's are (and Forsberg had the 200+ SEL games as well).

I'm pretty surprised that people are upset with my opinion on this matter.
Just because there are well-known politics keeping Lindros out of the hall doesn't mean they use your standards. I don't know how you even begin to deny that politcs are involved, it's been common knowledge for ages now. You're the only one who denies it, because it's inconvenient to your point. You're point which has been dissected by several different people now, yet you persist with.

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07-10-2013, 02:13 PM
  #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Just because there are well-known politics keeping Lindros out of the hall doesn't mean they use your standards. I don't know how you even begin to deny that politcs are involved, it's been common knowledge for ages now. You're the only one who denies it, because it's inconvenient to your point. You're point which has been dissected by several different people now, yet you persist with.
I'm pretty sure I have consistently listed "off-ice issues" as part of the reason he is not in. You think it is the only reason, I think it is part of the reason. But I guess you are right because it is unprovable which means that I am wrong because your unprovable opinion is more valid than my unprovable opinion.

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07-10-2013, 03:58 PM
  #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
Forsberg will probably get in eventually
Eventually, eh? He's a first ballot lock! Sheesh.

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07-10-2013, 08:05 PM
  #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I'm pretty sure I have consistently listed "off-ice issues" as part of the reason he is not in. You think it is the only reason, I think it is part of the reason. But I guess you are right because it is unprovable which means that I am wrong because your unprovable opinion is more valid than my unprovable opinion.
hahahaha. you guys are goin at it. its funny cause its getting all bitter and people are acting like there's some conspiracy to keep him out of the hof. there's not. its pretty cut and dried. he never won a championship or scoring title. had one hart trophy in a shortened season. and half his career was average due to injuries. the 5 seasons he dominated the league were amazing but i think its a slight exaggeration that he was carrying a team of bums on his back. He was at the center of a pretty well built team in the mid 90's. He WILL go into the hall eventually, he's just one of those players that isn't a 100% lock since eligibility because that era produced so many stars. 80's and 90's was a free for all for superstar players. He was definatley one of our best players of the last 25 years and I think he was unbelievable but i wouldn't even put him in my top ten modern era centers. he's definitely top 20 tho. I think most people who watched him play knew there was something missing. he had the whole physical package and tons of skill but, idk, a little bit of a leadership and heart issue going on there. just cause bill metlzer says there's a conspiracy doesn't mean there's a conspiracy.


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07-11-2013, 07:19 AM
  #132
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What a crime against Flyers fans that he isn't in the HOF. Watched him for several years and he was easily a top 3 forward in the league for 6-7 years. The fact that I look at a guy like Shanahan get in and not him make me smh. Shanahan was like Scottie Pippen on those Red Wing teams. Heck if he never played his way out of Hartford he would have never made it.

He's the only player I've ever seen that would make the biggest hit in a game, fight the toughest guy and then score 3 points. The likes of the NHL will never see anything like him ever again.

As for him really getting in....I don't think so. After he shafted the NHL and not signing with Quebec and having to move a team out of Canada cause they collapsed a few years later, the NHL will never grant him the immortality that he deserves. In the end it really doesn't matter, I can go to bed knowing he was easily one of the greatest players ever. The HHOF is just a popularity contest like all other HOF's.


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07-11-2013, 07:27 AM
  #133
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Originally Posted by funghoul View Post
hahahaha. you guys are goin at it. its funny cause its getting all bitter and people are acting like there's some conspiracy to keep him out of the hof. there's not. its pretty cut and dried. he never won a championship or scoring title. had one hart trophy in a shortened season. and half his career was average due to injuries. the 5 seasons he dominated the league were amazing but i think its a slight exaggeration that he was carrying a team of bums on his back. He was at the center of a pretty well built team in the mid 90's. He WILL go into the hall eventually, he's just one of those players that isn't a 100% lock since eligibility because that era produced so many stars. 80's and 90's was a free for all for superstar players. He was definatley one of our best players of the last 25 years and I think he was unbelievable but i wouldn't even put him in my top ten modern era centers. he's definitely top 20 tho. I think most people who watched him play knew there was something missing. he had the whole physical package and tons of skill but, idk, a little bit of a leadership and heart issue going on there. just cause bill metlzer says there's a conspiracy doesn't mean there's a conspiracy.
1) Teams win championships not individual players which is exactly why HOF's are a broken system.

2) Well built team? Better check their record with and without him in the lineup and if you want that justified check out the Pens record when they're missing Crosby, you'll be suprised.

3) Just curious but who would you put in your top 10?

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07-11-2013, 11:23 AM
  #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martz11 View Post
1) Teams win championships not individual players which is exactly why HOF's are a broken system.

2) Well built team? Better check their record with and without him in the lineup and if you want that justified check out the Pens record when they're missing Crosby, you'll be suprised.

3) Just curious but who would you put in your top 10?
Lindros will be in the hof. There's just a ton of good players from that era that had longer more productive careers with more significant impact on their teams. a goal, 2 assists and a minus 5 in the biggest playoff series of his career while being swept is pretty disappointing after the tear he was on that year. You can't deny Lindros played with a lot of great players during his time here. of course he was our best player during that five years, which is why I'm more surprised he's not more of a lock for the less important flyers hof which he should already be in since he was here during his great years. as far as top 10 centers go you have gretzky, messier, yzerman, lemeuix, trottier, crosby, bobby clarke, joe sakic, phil esposito and peter forsberg. all had more of an impact longer term with more success for their teams. lindros is pretty much 11 tho.

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07-11-2013, 12:13 PM
  #135
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Wait....Forsberg? Really?

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07-11-2013, 12:31 PM
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funghoul View Post
Lindros will be in the hof. There's just a ton of good players from that era that had longer more productive careers with more significant impact on their teams. a goal, 2 assists and a minus 5 in the biggest playoff series of his career while being swept is pretty disappointing after the tear he was on that year. You can't deny Lindros played with a lot of great players during his time here. of course he was our best player during that five years, which is why I'm more surprised he's not more of a lock for the less important flyers hof which he should already be in since he was here during his great years. as far as top 10 centers go you have gretzky, messier, yzerman, lemeuix, trottier, crosby, bobby clarke, joe sakic, phil esposito and peter forsberg. all had more of an impact longer term with more success for their teams. lindros is pretty much 11 tho.
This is entirely dependent on the acrimonious exit Lindros had with the organization. Coming back for the Winter Classic was a huge step in mending the relationship between Lindros & the Flyers, but there is still work to be done (and maybe it has been ongoing out of the public eye) before Lindros will be inducted into the Flyers Hall of Fame.


@ DFF: Forsberg would 'probably' get your vote? He's a borderline first ballot hall of famer! Now I'm not so surprised you don't think Lindros belongs in the HHoF if you're somewhat on the fence about another guy who's absolutely getting in.

Guys like Neely, Sundin and Shanahan are in the HHoF for being long term great players, but none of them were ever close to being the best player in the league for even one season, let alone the 5-8 year periods that Forsberg and Lindros were fghting for that honour. Forsberg and Lindros will both be inducted into the HHoF.

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07-11-2013, 12:35 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
This is entirely dependent on the acrimonious exit Lindros had with the organization. Coming back for the Winter Classic was a huge step in mending the relationship between Lindros & the Flyers, but there is still work to be done (and maybe it has beenongoing out of the public eye) before Lindros will be inducted into the Flyers Hall of Fame.


@ DFF: Forsberg would 'probably' get your vote? He's a borderline first ballot hall of famer! Now I'm not so surprised you don't think Lindros belongs in the HHoF if you're somewhat on the fence about another guy who's absolutely getting in.

Guys like Neely, Sundin and Shanahan are in the HHoF for being long term great players, but none of them were ever close to being the best player in the league for even one season, let alone the 5-8 year periods that Forsberg and Lindros were fghting for that honour. Forsberg and Lindros will both be inducted into the HHoF.
Neely played in like 700 games.

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07-11-2013, 12:41 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
This is entirely dependent on the acrimonious exit Lindros had with the organization. Coming back for the Winter Classic was a huge step in mending the relationship between Lindros & the Flyers, but there is still work to be done (and maybe it has beenongoing out of the public eye) before Lindros will be inducted into the Flyers Hall of Fame.


@ DFF: Forsberg would 'probably' get your vote? He's a borderline first ballot hall of famer! Now I'm not so surprised you don't think Lindros belongs in the HHoF if you're somewhat on the fence about another guy who's absolutely getting in.

Guys like Neely, Sundin and Shanahan are in the HHoF for being long term great players, but none of them were ever close to being the best player in the league for even one season, let alone the 5-8 year periods that Forsberg and Lindros were fghting for that honour. Forsberg and Lindros will both be inducted into the HHoF.
Lindros was at a Flyers Alumni golf outing the other day along with Clarke, Parent, Barber, Leclair, Renberg, etc as well.

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07-11-2013, 12:50 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by funghoul View Post
Lindros will be in the hof. There's just a ton of good players from that era that had longer more productive careers with more significant impact on their teams. a goal, 2 assists and a minus 5 in the biggest playoff series of his career while being swept is pretty disappointing after the tear he was on that year. You can't deny Lindros played with a lot of great players during his time here. of course he was our best player during that five years, which is why I'm more surprised he's not more of a lock for the less important flyers hof which he should already be in since he was here during his great years. as far as top 10 centers go you have gretzky, messier, yzerman, lemeuix, trottier, crosby, bobby clarke, joe sakic, phil esposito and peter forsberg. all had more of an impact longer term with more success for their teams. lindros is pretty much 11 tho.
Isn't it a little too early for that? If he went down with another concussion he would be in the same boat as Lindros.

Lindros: 468GP 659PTS +180
Crosby: 470GP 665PTS +108

That's Lindros' career totals as a Flyer and Crosby's career totals up to this point.


Last edited by LegionOfDoom91: 07-11-2013 at 12:56 PM.
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07-11-2013, 03:57 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
Isn't it a little too early for that? If he went down with another concussion he would be in the same boat as Lindros.

Lindros: 468GP 659PTS +180
Crosby: 470GP 665PTS +108

That's Lindros' career totals as a Flyer and Crosby's career totals up to this point.
idk maybe your right. but as much as i hate crosby I'm not gonna pretend he don't deliver every time he's on the ice. if he continues down the road he's on this way then there's no question. believe me, i don't want him grouped in with them but it just seems like i'd be in denial otherwise. I can understand people questioning why lindros aint in because, for one i do not think sundin should be in really at all. i think he was a really good player but he's right on the line for me. Neely is a little different because of his style of play. i'd rather have neely in then sundin. sundin's in that pat verbeek realm to me. a really good player but......if there was ever some political b.s. going on it was with him. at the very least he got in way too soon. but what the hell do i know


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07-12-2013, 02:15 AM
  #141
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if you look at the lockout and how they changed the rules since its all lindros. no hits to the head, cracking down on clutch and grab, opening up the trap even the cap its all how they could remov ethe roadblocks that stopped Lindros. he was an absolute Monster on the ice and if he doesn't get in the hall as a layer its a crime but bettman used him as the mold so that will get him in the builder categorie later on

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07-12-2013, 05:48 AM
  #142
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Pavel bure got in .. they have similar games played lindros was definitely the better player but bure got in so why not lindros? Just saying he did do something "historic"


Last edited by kelmitchell: 07-12-2013 at 05:50 AM. Reason: auto correct
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09-16-2013, 05:50 AM
  #143
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Of course he's worthy. He's got a Hart and a Pearson and a tied Ross and a very good playoff record. His PPG is through the roof.

Lindros impact on the game was substansial. Teams started to draft totally irrationally and out of panic because of him when 6'5 guys who couldn't play very well like Belak, Rupp, Scott Parker and, ironically, Brett Lindros were choosen very high in the draft to match up against Eric. Indirectly you can even say that the DPE and the backpack hockey of the late 90s early 00s, partially, came as an answer to Lindros. Guys like Derian Hatcher and Matvichuk were allowed to backpack on forwards because Lindros toyed with players in the corners.

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