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What is Darcy Tucker worth?5/$15 milllion?

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Old
10-26-2006, 01:54 PM
  #51
NYVanfan
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I don't know ...I'm not crazy about Tucker. Doesn't he play with good linemates? and he's a 20-goal scorer, not 30. 28 last year (with a -12), 24 a few years ago, then a couple 21s. Looked at his playoff stats too ... -5 with around a .33 PPG. Not bad, but for upwards of 4M+ for many years seems a bit steep to me.

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10-26-2006, 01:58 PM
  #52
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Again I like this deal for the leafs, but the No Movement Clause just seems like a bad idea. I mean Leafs could (and I stress COULD) in 3 or 4 years having $9M+ of cap space sitting in the pressbox because they don't really have to do anything, because the No Movement clause says they can't be moved off the team. I can't see Tucker doing this, but the other guy with one, I don't know.

Good contract for the Leafs, except for the NMC.

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10-26-2006, 02:02 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
according to most reports they won't pick up Sundin's option for accounting purposes and will re-sign as a UFA.
Any rumors on what he'd be looking for in a deal? He's still a productive player and the face of the franchise, I can't see him taking a huge paycut (but I could be wrong).

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10-26-2006, 02:12 PM
  #54
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Any rumors on what he'd be looking for in a deal? He's still a productive player and the face of the franchise, I can't see him taking a huge paycut (but I could be wrong).
No idea. From what I heard and I may be wrong, is that Sundin is getting approx. 4 mil this year although cap wise it's 6+. He could get a raise to 5+ and the Leafs save cap space and Sundin gets a raise. Pierre LeBrun was explaining it the other night on the Spin.

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10-26-2006, 02:14 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by snowrunner View Post
heck samsanov and Kovelev are 3.4 and 4.5 million each...
Give me Kovalev at 4.5 mil over Tucker at 3 mill any day of the week. Kovalev at 4.5 mill is a bargain.

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10-26-2006, 02:29 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
according to most reports they won't pick up Sundin's option for accounting purposes and will re-sign as a UFA.
i would laugh so hard if he was just saying what the fans want to hear... it would be hilarious if a team declined the option just to negociate a new deal... then the guy went elsewhere.... and it would be be if it happened to any team... not just the leafs

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10-26-2006, 02:43 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Jimmi Jenkins View Post
Again I like this deal for the leafs, but the No Movement Clause just seems like a bad idea. I mean Leafs could (and I stress COULD) in 3 or 4 years having $9M+ of cap space sitting in the pressbox because they don't really have to do anything, because the No Movement clause says they can't be moved off the team. I can't see Tucker doing this, but the other guy with one, I don't know.

Good contract for the Leafs, except for the NMC.
In my opinion the NMC clause is worthless. (well not quite worthless but over-rated). If a team decides to move a player they can make life so miserable for that player, he will beg to be traded. Ask Darryl Sittler.

ps. I had a friend whose son was drafted by the North Bay years ago when the notorious Bert Templeton ran the team. the father, before, he let his son sign demanded a no trade contract. (to his somewhat surprise Bert gave it to him without any debate). After they signed the father asked Bert why he caved on the no-trade so quickly, Bert responded that if he wanted the player moved he would make life so unbearable for his son he would crawl to him on his hands and knees demanding a trade and gave no-trade contracts out to anyone who asked for them.
These players are professionals and run of healthy scratches will sooner or later get to them.

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10-26-2006, 04:33 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingsCourt View Post
Cap troubles are looming LARGE for the leafs.
How so, Tucker will just get whatever we are paying Domi and Belfour this year

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Originally Posted by Northern Dancer View Post
In my opinion the NMC clause is worthless. (well not quite worthless but over-rated). If a team decides to move a player they can make life so miserable for that player, he will beg to be traded. Ask Darryl Sittler.

ps. I had a friend whose son was drafted by the North Bay years ago when the notorious Bert Templeton ran the team. the father, before, he let his son sign demanded a no trade contract. (to his somewhat surprise Bert gave it to him without any debate). After they signed the father asked Bert why he caved on the no-trade so quickly, Bert responded that if he wanted the player moved he would make life so unbearable for his son he would crawl to him on his hands and knees demanding a trade and gave no-trade contracts out to anyone who asked for them.
These players are professionals and run of healthy scratches will sooner or later get to them.
Exactly, if a team wants a player gone...they will be gone. Can always do a Louretirement too since its a long term deal before he is 35

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Originally Posted by NYVanfan View Post
I don't know ...I'm not crazy about Tucker. Doesn't he play with good linemates? and he's a 20-goal scorer, not 30. 28 last year (with a -12), 24 a few years ago, then a couple 21s. Looked at his playoff stats too ... -5 with around a .33 PPG. Not bad, but for upwards of 4M+ for many years seems a bit steep to me.
Tucker was really never asked to score goals with Quinn, his role is more of an offensive one now. And he plays with Kilgar and Peca, hardly offense juggernauts.

We been paying him far under market value for his time up until now, a pay raise is most surely in his future.

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Originally Posted by Marshy's View Post
Give me Kovalev at 4.5 mil over Tucker at 3 mill any day of the week. Kovalev at 4.5 mill is a bargain.
I do not in the slightest agree with you

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Old
10-26-2006, 04:45 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by KingsCourt View Post
Cap troubles are looming LARGE for the leafs.
How do you figure?

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10-26-2006, 05:16 PM
  #60
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10 dollars and the KFC Family Bucket meal.



They were comparing him to Morrow for stats, the thing is Morrow is young and will put up bigger numbers by the time he's 32. Tucker for 5 years? Are the leafs stupid or serious about that?

Never tie a player up for more than 3 years unless that said player is a young superstar or established superstar. Tucker is good for 2m/year for 3yrs...or 2.5 for 3yrs. If the leafs keep handing out the no movement clause to every guy that is UFA, they'll be stuck with these guys when they suck and won't be able to trade them and even when put on waivers, no team would want to pay half their salary. JFjr should probably try thinking about this one, for a change.

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10-26-2006, 05:19 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Dancer View Post
In my opinion the NMC clause is worthless. (well not quite worthless but over-rated). If a team decides to move a player they can make life so miserable for that player, he will beg to be traded. Ask Darryl Sittler.
.
Yeah maybe back then, but i think Todd Marchant had one and he was thrown on waivers because he wouldn't comply with the trade or whatever. But with most teams wanting to reserve their cap space for emergency roster moves, NMC will come back to bite JFjr in the ***.

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10-26-2006, 05:20 PM
  #62
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5yrs scares me.. he'd only be 34 which isn't terrible but despite his relative durability Tucker is not a big guy and his wreaking ball style of play along with being a big target of the opposition makes him a likely target to decline earlier then most.
I'd MUCH rather 3yrs... I could push to 4 if that was necessary, but I don't think I could justify 5 unless he came at a considerable discount.

Ideally I'd like 3M/yr over 3yrs... I could handle up to 3.5M over 4 at the very far end.
A premier agitator that draws a ton of penalties from opposing teams, can pot 25-30 goals,great phsical presence and a strong leader that gives 100% every night.... for 3M I'd be very pleased.
Since being thrust into an offensive role over since last season he's really responded very nicely so I'm not sure even 30-35 G is out of the question though that's probably the limit.

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10-26-2006, 05:22 PM
  #63
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I'm not worried about the raise in terms of us being in huge cap trouble, whatever extra he gets on top of his current salary should be largely if not completely covered just from Domi/Belfour being completely off the books.

Given Sundin's practically weekly proclamation that he'd rather lose perennially here then win a cup elsewhere I've precious little concerns that it will be hard to decline Sundin's TO year and resign him for less.
Even something around 5M/yr would give us a nice chunk of extra cap space to use, and 5M doesn't seem particularly optimistic to me.

O'Neill's 1.5M contract is over, and should he resign it's plausible we can get him for less. Especially given he planned to retire anyway if he wasn't playing here... so we're not terribly likely to have much competition for him.
Peca's contract is over also, whether he's resigned is was too early to tell but unless he magically becomes the Buffalo era Peca overnight he's not likely to recieve more then what he's making now either.

We have no one to resign that's due for a big raise, the best of them is Ponikarovsky but it seems very unlikely that he'll recieve dramatically more then he's making now.

We won't have a ton of cap space, but we're not likely to have much difficulty filling our roster without seeing a decline is talent level IMO.

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10-26-2006, 05:22 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by NYVanfan View Post
I don't know ...I'm not crazy about Tucker. Doesn't he play with good linemates? and he's a 20-goal scorer, not 30. 28 last year (with a -12), 24 a few years ago, then a couple 21s. Looked at his playoff stats too ... -5 with around a .33 PPG. Not bad, but for upwards of 4M+ for many years seems a bit steep to me.
I understand he's considered a heart and soul type guy on the leafs much like how Cooke is to your Canucks. But to pay him more than 3million a season, that would be a bad idea. How much does Cooke get? i'm sure its under 3m and even then it's hurting the capspace for vancouver to add some depth if they needed. Leafs don't want to handcuff themselves with a long term deal like this one.

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10-26-2006, 05:24 PM
  #65
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5yrs scares me.. he'd only be 34 which isn't terrible but despite his relative durability Tucker is not a big guy and his wreaking ball style of play along with being a big target of the opposition makes him a likely target to decline earlier then most.
I'd MUCH rather 3yrs... I could push to 4 if that was necessary, but I don't think I could justify 5 unless he came at a considerable discount.

Ideally I'd like 3M/yr over 3yrs... I could handle up to 3.5M over 4 at the very far end.
A premier agitator that draws a ton of penalties from opposing teams, can pot 25-30 goals,great phsical presence and a strong leader that gives 100% every night.... for 3M I'd be very pleased.
Since being thrust into an offensive role over since last season he's really responded very nicely so I'm not sure even 30-35 G is out of the question though that's probably the limit.
Tucker is 31, if he was signed for 5yrs, he'd be 36-37 the next time he's a UFA.

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10-26-2006, 05:28 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Marshy's View Post
Give me Kovalev at 4.5 mil over Tucker at 3 mill any day of the week. Kovalev at 4.5 mill is a bargain.
I'd take tucker at 3 mill over samsonov any day of the week and twice on sundays.

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10-26-2006, 05:34 PM
  #67
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What's all this talk about Tucker being a 30 goal scorer?
He isn't but he is very close to it.

28 goals last season and he has 7 goals in 10 games so far this season...

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10-26-2006, 05:42 PM
  #68
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Quote:
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They were comparing him to Morrow for stats, the thing is Morrow is young and will put up bigger numbers by the time he's 32. Tucker for 5 years? Are the leafs stupid or serious about that?
well, go compare their numbers versus ages during their best years.. very comparable.. plus, it's always hazy to state an assumption as fact.

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Never tie a player up for more than 3 years unless that said player is a young superstar or established superstar. Tucker is good for 2m/year for 3yrs...or 2.5 for 3yrs. If the leafs keep handing out the no movement clause to every guy that is UFA, they'll be stuck with these guys when they suck and won't be able to trade them and even when put on waivers, no team would want to pay half their salary. JFjr should probably try thinking about this one, for a change.
never lock up a player unless blah blah... interesting, try and tell edmonton fans (for one example) that they locked up pisani for too long, or moreau for that matter, and see what they say, if you have important players, you lock them up for longer contracts, it's how it happens..

also, with this 'new' style game, who's to say tucker can't produce even more now, maybe up into the 70-80 pt range?

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10-26-2006, 05:46 PM
  #69
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Ok, then sign Tucker for 15 years.

Signing guys that are 30+ to contracts longer than 5years, to me that just spells trouble. If the past season or this one is last final good season and he's locked up for 5yrs at 3m a year and with a NMC, the leafs are then stuck with a mediocre agitator on the down end of his career getting overpaid. Not saying it will happen, but i can.

Moreau, yeah ísn't he out for the season? He's a good player no doubt and he is a good leader on the team, but locking up guys for longer than 3yrs is just a bad idea. that's just my opinion on the length. the amount, i say 2.5 is fair. What does he currently make?

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10-26-2006, 05:47 PM
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who's to say tucker can't produce even more now, maybe up into the 70-80 pt range?
Everyone except leafs fans?

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10-26-2006, 06:01 PM
  #71
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I understand he's considered a heart and soul type guy on the leafs much like how Cooke is to your Canucks. But to pay him more than 3million a season, that would be a bad idea. How much does Cooke get? i'm sure its under 3m and even then it's hurting the capspace for vancouver to add some depth if they needed. Leafs don't want to handcuff themselves with a long term deal like this one.

Cooke's never scored 20, so Tucker has more offensive upside. Cooke is 28 and has ths year and one more at $1.5M. Seemed like a lot when he was signed, but i guess about right now. I'd think $2.5 for Tucker would be more like it, maybe $3M for 3 years, but as mentioned, you prob don't want more than 3 yrs at his age.

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10-26-2006, 06:07 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by NYVanfan View Post
Cooke's never scored 20, so Tucker has more offensive upside. Cooke is 28 and has ths year and one more at $1.5M. Seemed like a lot when he was signed, but i guess about right now. I'd think $2.5 for Tucker would be more like it, maybe $3M for 3 years, but as mentioned, you prob don't want more than 3 yrs at his age.
Tucker makes about the same as Cooke right now. But yeah i agree with your post, 3yrs is the longest he should be signed for. People seem to forget he turns 32 early in the near next year (march), to sign him for 5 years, at 37 he's not going to be worth anywhere near 3million.

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10-26-2006, 09:50 PM
  #73
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Quote:
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Ok, then sign Tucker for 15 years.

Signing guys that are 30+ to contracts longer than 5years, to me that just spells trouble. If the past season or this one is last final good season and he's locked up for 5yrs at 3m a year and with a NMC, the leafs are then stuck with a mediocre agitator on the down end of his career getting overpaid. Not saying it will happen, but i can.

Moreau, yeah ísn't he out for the season? He's a good player no doubt and he is a good leader on the team, but locking up guys for longer than 3yrs is just a bad idea. that's just my opinion on the length. the amount, i say 2.5 is fair. What does he currently make?
the contract discussed here is five years, not longer, and i bet it'll be four years anyway. i also don't see why tucker couldn't be one of those players who gets better as he gets older, his wreckless play (a word being tossed around in this thread) is not as wreckless as it once was, not in the slightest, so it's fair to assume a guy that can agitate, play in both ends, score, and envoke/display leadership can continue that from age 31 to age 36.. i don't think it's that farfetched..

i don't understand what moreau's injury has to do with anything though.. ?

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10-27-2006, 07:22 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Marshy's View Post
Give me Kovalev at 4.5 mil over Tucker at 3 mill any day of the week. Kovalev at 4.5 mill is a bargain.
kovalev hasn't produced up to his talent level in several seasons, and i think 4.5 is too much

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10-27-2006, 08:54 PM
  #75
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I would be happy with a 5yr/15mil deal.

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