HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Notices

Flyers sign Erik Gustafsson, 1-year for $1m, one-way contract

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-11-2013, 12:35 PM
  #126
DrinkFightFlyers
Grave Before Shave
 
DrinkFightFlyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 11,707
vCash: 50
Send a message via AIM to DrinkFightFlyers
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I easily take Gus at his cap hit over Mez at his. He hasn't lived up to that cap hit for most of his time here.

Edit: and Gus has shown recently that he can take over Mez's role, with more room for possible development and improvement.
Absolutely, if we are talking about cap hits being considered I would deal Mez in a heartbeat and take Gus. For what he is making, it is too much of an injury risk to have him sitting there while this team is in the cap-crunch it is likely facing. But if both are fitting under the cap and both are healthy, you gotta go with Mez. Eventually, Gus might be the better option, but again I am not going to hand Gus the job based on 27 games in a shortened season vs. 11 injury-riddled games in a shortened season.

Even if Gus played like a top 4 defender consistently in those 27 games (which I am not in agreement with), it is still only 27 games. The other 33 games he played in his career were not top 4 caliber for the most part. If we are giving Gus the job based on those games, why not give Lauridsen a spot too, he looked pretty good in his 6 games or whatever last season.

DrinkFightFlyers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-11-2013, 12:44 PM
  #127
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
AICMAM
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Alexandria
Country: Liberia
Posts: 34,098
vCash: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Absolutely, if we are talking about cap hits being considered I would deal Mez in a heartbeat and take Gus. For what he is making, it is too much of an injury risk to have him sitting there while this team is in the cap-crunch it is likely facing. But if both are fitting under the cap and both are healthy, you gotta go with Mez. Eventually, Gus might be the better option, but again I am not going to hand Gus the job based on 27 games in a shortened season vs. 11 injury-riddled games in a shortened season.

Even if Gus played like a top 4 defender consistently in those 27 games (which I am not in agreement with), it is still only 27 games. The other 33 games he played in his career were not top 4 caliber for the most part. If we are giving Gus the job based on those games, why not give Lauridsen a spot too, he looked pretty good in his 6 games or whatever last season.
He also had an incredibly good international performance, too. Mez hasn't played at a consistent level or matched his one year here in two season now.


Lauridsen is far more unproven than Gus, that comparison doesn't even begin to work. You're grasping for straws on that, and I think you're missing the point. The simple fact is the team needs to clear cap room. Mez makes too much. We have a Dman that can step into his role adequately in Gustafsson. At this point Mez is expendable.

__________________
Down in the basement, I've got a Craftsman lathe. Show it to the children when they misbehave.
Beef Invictus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-11-2013, 12:47 PM
  #128
DrinkFightFlyers
Grave Before Shave
 
DrinkFightFlyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 11,707
vCash: 50
Send a message via AIM to DrinkFightFlyers
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
He also had an incredibly good international performance, too. Mez hasn't played at a consistent level or matched his one year here in two season now.


Lauridsen is far more unproven than Gus, that comparison doesn't even begin to work. You're grasping for straws on that, and I think you're missing the point. The simple fact is the team needs to clear cap room. Mez makes too much. We have a Dman that can step into his role adequately in Gustafsson. At this point Mez is expendable.
Oh absolutely. I have been saying to trade Mez for peanuts pretty much the entire off season. But if they are both on the roster in training camp, it's Mez's spot to lose. If he plays like crap, obviously Gus would get it. But I wouldn't pencil in gus based on half of a half season and international play.

DrinkFightFlyers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-11-2013, 12:58 PM
  #129
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 13,881
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Oh absolutely. I have been saying to trade Mez for peanuts pretty much the entire off season. But if they are both on the roster in training camp, it's Mez's spot to lose. If he plays like crap, obviously Gus would get it. But I wouldn't pencil in gus based on half of a half season and international play.
Disagree that it's Mesz's spot to lose.

1. You don't put players into the lineup above better options just because they make more money.
2. You don't play injury risk players in your lineup just in the hope that they return to the same form they had over two seasons ago when you have players who can perform adequately.
3. You don't sit young players who are obviously ready to the press box over veterans that don't fit into your long-term plans or even your plans beyond this season.

If anyone should be going to the press box, it should be Meszaros. I didn't even mention that Gustafsson is probably the better and more consistent player at this point in time.

You can tell me I'm overrating Gustafsson and all this nonsense until you're blue in the face. The fact remains that it's been a long time since Meszaros was our "best defensemen" (he really wasn't), and it's been two calenders years since Meszaros has been anything other than an extreme liability on the back-end for 11 games, sitting in the press-box, or rehabbing after surgery.

You don't just magically recover from that.

CS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-11-2013, 01:05 PM
  #130
Larry44
FlyersTankNation
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,975
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Oh absolutely. I have been saying to trade Mez for peanuts pretty much the entire off season. But if they are both on the roster in training camp, it's Mez's spot to lose. If he plays like crap, obviously Gus would get it. But I wouldn't pencil in gus based on half of a half season and international play.
Mesz is the better player if healthy, no questions. The key is whether they can fit him under the cap. A lot depends on Laughton making the team, which means we don't have room for Gagne. If they want both, Mesz or someone else has to go (Read or Talbot in trade).

If Gus is the #7, he'll still get in a lot of games. It'll let us rest Timonen instead of letting him play with broken bones....

I'm sure Homer has an idea of what he wants to do, but he can't even deal Mesz for peanuts or waive him, if that's the plan, until he's cleared medically. After that, we'll know what he has in mind.

Larry44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-11-2013, 01:09 PM
  #131
Curufinwe
Registered User
 
Curufinwe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,190
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CS View Post
You can tell me I'm overrating Gustafsson and all this nonsense until you're blue in the face. The fact remains that it's been a long time since Meszaros was our "best defensemen" (he really wasn't), and it's been two calenders years since Meszaros has been anything other than an extreme liability on the back-end for 11 games, sitting in the press-box, or rehabbing after surgery.

You don't just magically recover from that.
What do you mean by two calendar years? Mezaros was playing at a decent level until he got hurt on March 1st, 2012. That was one year, four months, and 10 days ago.

Curufinwe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-11-2013, 01:12 PM
  #132
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 13,881
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
Mesz is the better player if healthy, no questions. The key is whether they can fit him under the cap. A lot depends on Laughton making the team, which means we don't have room for Gagne. If they want both, Mesz or someone else has to go (Read or Talbot in trade).
Meszaros is the better player if this is 2010, and he is healthy.

This is 2013 though, and Meszaros hasn't been healthy for 2 calender years.

Mesz's 100% now is not likely to be at the same heights as his 100% over two years ago. Expecting that to be the case is a recipe for disaster.

Meanwhile Gustafsson is definitely catching up, and given a full year, might even be at the level Meszaros was two years ago. This is just something we don't know until we give him a shot.

Forgive my rage right now but...

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, WE NEED TO STOP FLIRTING WITH GUSTAFSSON AND INVITE HIM TO THE FREAKING DANCE ALREADY.

Seriously, we're messing with his development. He's demonstrated that he's NHL ready. Give him the shot and stop screwing around.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
If Gus is the #7, he'll still get in a lot of games. It'll let us rest Timonen instead of letting him play with broken bones....
That's what Gervais is for, what Manning is for, what Bourdon is for, and what Lauridsen is for...

CS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-11-2013, 01:14 PM
  #133
DrinkFightFlyers
Grave Before Shave
 
DrinkFightFlyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 11,707
vCash: 50
Send a message via AIM to DrinkFightFlyers
Quote:
Originally Posted by CS View Post
Disagree that it's Mesz's spot to lose.

1. You don't put players into the lineup above better options just because they make more money.
I don't think I ever said that. I have been saying that Mez is better.

Quote:
2. You don't play injury risk players in your lineup just in the hope that they return to the same form they had over two seasons ago when you have players who can perform adequately.
You absolutely play injury risks if they are better players, which IMO Mez is. If he comes out of the gate playing like ****, then bench him and let Gus earn it. But you don't just say, "oh ****, Mez was injured last year and Gus was ok so Gus's 60 games of somewhat decent play outweigh Mez's 500+ good games because his last 11 weren't good."

Quote:
3. You don't sit young players who are obviously ready to the press box over veterans that don't fit into your long-term plans or even your plans beyond this season.
You put the best team possible on the ice. In a year or two Gus may be better than Mez, but he isn't right now, despite his 60 games in the NHL.

Quote:
If anyone should be going to the press box, it should be Meszaros. I didn't even mention that Gustafsson is probably the better and more consistent player at this point in time.
How can you call a guy that has played 60 total NHL games more consistent? Especially when probably about half of those 60 games were certainly not top 4 caliber (unless you are telling me that Gus's first year in the NHL he was a top four defender, which would be a pretty far stretch). Consistently healthy, maybe. But again, when Mez is healthy he is a better player. If he's not healthy, don't play him. I agree 100%. But if he's healthy I'd put him in.

Quote:
You can tell me I'm overrating Gustafsson and all this nonsense until you're blue in the face. The fact remains that it's been a long time since Meszaros was our "best defensemen" (he really wasn't), and it's been two calenders years since Meszaros has been anything other than an extreme liability on the back-end for 11 games, sitting in the press-box, or rehabbing after surgery.

You don't just magically recover from that.
Lol. You just don't magically recover injuries? Tell that to Mark Streit. Tell that to Ray Emery. Tell that to all the other players who have missed considerable time due to injury and have come back. His last season of consistent action was the season before last, when he put up good numbers and was a good defender. Then he got hurt, came back and played in 11 games and got hurt again. Now his career is over. Meanwhile 27 games of a shortened season shows consistency. Got it.

DrinkFightFlyers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-11-2013, 01:15 PM
  #134
Hiesenberg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Country: United States
Posts: 3,061
vCash: 491
Again, line them up next to each other, even fully healthy. I still take Gus. I like his skill set over Mesz and especially paired up with a grunt like Grossman.

Hiesenberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-11-2013, 01:15 PM
  #135
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 13,881
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
What do you mean by two calendar years? Mezaros was playing at a decent level until he got hurt on March 1st, 2012. That was one year, four months, and 10 days ago.
Wow. I completely botched that math in my head. (Not feeling well today sorry.)

One calender year.

Still my point stands. He's had multiple major surgeries, fell through a horrible 11-game stint, and still won't be cleared until the end of the month.

CS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-11-2013, 01:17 PM
  #136
DrinkFightFlyers
Grave Before Shave
 
DrinkFightFlyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 11,707
vCash: 50
Send a message via AIM to DrinkFightFlyers
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
Mesz is the better player if healthy, no questions. The key is whether they can fit him under the cap. A lot depends on Laughton making the team, which means we don't have room for Gagne. If they want both, Mesz or someone else has to go (Read or Talbot in trade).

If Gus is the #7, he'll still get in a lot of games. It'll let us rest Timonen instead of letting him play with broken bones....

I'm sure Homer has an idea of what he wants to do, but he can't even deal Mesz for peanuts or waive him, if that's the plan, until he's cleared medically. After that, we'll know what he has in mind.
Oh yeah, I am totally in favor of dealing Mez. I have no issue with that at all. This team needs some cap room, Mez is #1 on my list to go. But if he is here, the spot is Mez's to lose and Gus's to earn.

DrinkFightFlyers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-11-2013, 01:24 PM
  #137
Curufinwe
Registered User
 
Curufinwe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,190
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CS View Post
Wow. I completely botched that math in my head. (Not feeling well today sorry.)

One calender year.

Still my point stands. He's had multiple major surgeries, fell through a horrible 11-game stint, and still won't be cleared until the end of the month.
No worries. It's kind of worse when you think of all the injuries he has sustained in just a 13 month period: Back surgery, torn Achilles, then busting the same shoulder twice.

Curufinwe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-11-2013, 01:26 PM
  #138
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
AICMAM
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Alexandria
Country: Liberia
Posts: 34,098
vCash: 156
Are we even sure Mez is better than Gus? He didn't exactly blow me away last year, even when healthy. He was expected to carry some of the load and struggled with it. This season Gus fared better against tougher competition. Last season in 30 games, when he was less advanced in his development, he wasn't much worse than Mez. Edit: He had easier competition, but he performed better relative to that competition than Mez did with his.

Gus is a suitable replacement at this point. Possibly even a superior replacement if his development continues its current trend. He also comes at a cheap cap hit. He also doesn't have a legion of health issues. He should be the go-to guy at this point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
No worries. It's kind of worse when you think of all the injuries he has sustained in just a 13 month period: Back surgery, torn Achilles, then busting the same shoulder twice.
The back and shoulder are the really concerning ones. "Structural" injuries, especially when they get repeated in the same place, can be a big red flag.


Last edited by Beef Invictus: 07-11-2013 at 01:31 PM.
Beef Invictus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-11-2013, 01:27 PM
  #139
Curufinwe
Registered User
 
Curufinwe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,190
vCash: 500
If Meszaros can't be traded then he might even be bought out.

Andrej Meszaros buyout from CapGeek.com

2013-14: $333,333
2014-15: $1,833,333

Curufinwe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-11-2013, 01:28 PM
  #140
Hiesenberg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Country: United States
Posts: 3,061
vCash: 491
Bottom line

Gus @ 1M
Mesz @ 4M

I'd take Gus at that number.

Hiesenberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-11-2013, 01:28 PM
  #141
Hiesenberg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Country: United States
Posts: 3,061
vCash: 491
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
If Meszaros can't be traded then he might even be bought out.

Andrej Meszaros buyout from CapGeek.com

2013-14: $333,333
2014-15: $1,833,333
This was actually just discussed on twitter. Buyout period is over. Trade/Waive/Bench/LTIR for Mesz most likely.

Hiesenberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-11-2013, 01:39 PM
  #142
Curufinwe
Registered User
 
Curufinwe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,190
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiesenberg View Post
This was actually just discussed on twitter. Buyout period is over. Trade/Waive/Bench/LTIR for Mesz most likely.
That's a shame.

Curufinwe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-11-2013, 01:41 PM
  #143
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 13,881
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
If Meszaros can't be traded then he might even be bought out.

Andrej Meszaros buyout from CapGeek.com

2013-14: $333,333
2014-15: $1,833,333
We have the cap space to waive him. We save 0.900m against the cap and take on the rest of the 3.100m salary.

It's not ideal, but if we can't trade him, we can at least save 0.90m on him.

CS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-11-2013, 01:51 PM
  #144
hckyplayer8
He's Gone!
 
hckyplayer8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Chicken Capital,PA
Country: United States
Posts: 2,838
vCash: 500
Love it.

hckyplayer8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-11-2013, 01:53 PM
  #145
RJ8812
Gunner Stahl #9
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Sudbury
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,967
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiesenberg View Post
This was actually just discussed on twitter. Buyout period is over. Trade/Waive/Bench/LTIR for Mesz most likely.
the CBO buy-out period has passed, but there's the regular buy-out period that opens up in August some time

RJ8812 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-11-2013, 01:56 PM
  #146
Hiesenberg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Country: United States
Posts: 3,061
vCash: 491
Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
the CBO buy-out period has passed, but there's the regular buy-out period that opens up in August some time
Yes, and the Flyers won't qualify for it, you have to have some crazy things happen.

Hiesenberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-11-2013, 02:10 PM
  #147
DrinkFightFlyers
Grave Before Shave
 
DrinkFightFlyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 11,707
vCash: 50
Send a message via AIM to DrinkFightFlyers
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiesenberg View Post
Yes, and the Flyers won't qualify for it, you have to have some crazy things happen.
You can buy out anyone during that period can't you?

DrinkFightFlyers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-11-2013, 02:23 PM
  #148
Hiesenberg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Country: United States
Posts: 3,061
vCash: 491
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
You can buy out anyone during that period can't you?
Some teams can. Here is the discussion I had with the capologist I follow:

That's for OCB outside the regular OCB period. [11.18 of the CBA citing Paragraph 13(c)(ii) of a player's SPC.]

Teams get 3 over the course of this CBA. It doesn't apply if a) teams only have 1 player facing arbitration, b) a player wasn't on the Reserve List as of the previous Trade Deadline, c) players w/ an AAV < $2.75m (w/ that figure increasing in = % to minimum Paragraph 1 salary).

In any case, it's possible to execute OCB outside the regular OCB period, but only under very narrow circumstances.

Hiesenberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-11-2013, 08:05 PM
  #149
Tripod
Registered User
 
Tripod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 6,413
vCash: 500
I will keep saying it until it happens. Mez traded for Diaz. Then let Gus and Diaz battle it out for #6...and the other plays when we have injuries...which we all know happens a lot. Demoted Gervais...he won't get claimed.

Tripod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-11-2013, 08:19 PM
  #150
LegionOfDoom91
Registered User
 
LegionOfDoom91's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 11,343
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripod View Post
I will keep saying it until it happens. Mez traded for Diaz. Then let Gus and Diaz battle it out for #6...and the other plays when we have injuries...which we all know happens a lot. Demoted Gervais...he won't get claimed.
856-309-4400

That's the number to the Flyers Skate Zone in Voorhees. You can call and try to get a hold of Homer so you can tell him about it then.

LegionOfDoom91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:43 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.