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[EDM/STL] David Perron for Magnus Paajarvi + 2nd '14 | Part 2

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Old
07-11-2013, 12:28 PM
  #276
No Good Names Left
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One of the biggest ways I evaluate trades is, who got the best player. We did, hands down. Perron has a sic set of hands, great wrist shot, plays with a bit of and edge and controls the puck. He does things that PRV will never be able to do. PRV will be at best a 2nd line player, where I can see Perron being a 60-70 point player.

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07-11-2013, 12:30 PM
  #277
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Originally Posted by PeakOil View Post
I agree, there's certainly no formula for building a team. If you can make the playoffs, and have skill or a great system or a ridiculous goaltending performance or a whole bunch of other things and a bit of luck, you can win the cup.

Trying to build a team around the most recent cup winning team would be impossible first off, and secondly it would be an ever changing proposition as the only consistent thing about recent cup winners is that they all had a bunch of really good and effective hockey players.
This is great, really well said. I think we just over look that. There is no magic formula other than to put together a bunch of good hockey players and hope you get some luck. That is really about it. Having a exact prototypical player at every position is impossible and never achieved. IF we finally get the Number 1 D man and that big C. It doesn't mean we will win. We will always have holes, it comes down to the chemistry, skill and luck of the players we have.

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07-11-2013, 12:44 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
Anyone know the status of Bergenheim?

There was that issue with him and FLA with him getting injuried during the lockout. Wonder if he's available?

Seems like the perfect 3LW to replace PRV. And yes I know he's 5'10.
Why is it that all perfect third-line players that could be available are always left wingers?

Penner, Raymond, Kulemin, Bergenheim, Greening, etc.

In other words, I have no idea with him. I think I remember hearing that he was unimpressed with how the Panthers treated his injury. Glad I could help!

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07-11-2013, 12:46 PM
  #279
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I'm confused, Replacement is happy with something the Oilers management did? Surely I am dreaming.
heh.

Perron is a very good pickup for us. Best one imo since J Schultz. A very helpful piece of the puzzle and better fit than people may think.

This is a good article in the journal today.

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/sport...007/story.html

Love these quotes:

MacT:
Quote:
“I just felt like David was a little more established, a little bit more experienced, a little bit more certain of his ability to play at a very high level on a top-two line position,” said MacTavish. “He’s a guy who may fit better into the way we’re going to try to play the game than the team that he came from.

Perron:
Quote:
“It seems like as the hours and minutes go by, it feels better. I feel like I’m going to look good with the jersey on,” he said. “The style of play that they want to play is what I played to get into the NHL. It’s a team that can become like the Chicago Blackhawks. It sure is nice to come into a situation like that.

“In St. Louis, it was more defensive-minded hockey, more of a team that tries to style itself after the L.A. Kings and teams like that. Obviously, it’s a really successful way, but so is the Chicago Blackhawks’ type of hockey.

“It will take me a little bit of time to readjust ... but I’m looking forward to it. I still feel I have steps to take to become better.”

Just as a sidenote this is the kind of succinct and dialed in type of quote I came accustomed to from MacT. tbh I think the first few mths on the job he was rattled and his dialog is now getting back to what I remember. MacT in this expresses in few words what the obvious difference between the respective players is. He does it nicely as well.

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07-11-2013, 12:50 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by Sdeol44 View Post
Maybe you are right .. but to date no ignoring maggie has not done much


NHL : 163 gp 26 g 32 a 58 pts 64 hits, that is 0.36 ppg production rate.
Ahl production : 45 pts in 72 games with a 5.91 shooting %. 0 -/+


He does not produce. He does not make up for lack of production with physical play. Perron has more hits in 1 season then maggie does his career. I get he is 22 , and he can improve, but we didn't add a 32 year old. Perron is 25 .
Great post. The beauty of this deal is that we upgrade, plus still get a player that can develop further, he's only 25.

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07-11-2013, 12:53 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by Nailor Hopberle View Post
Great post. The beauty of this deal is that we upgrade, plus still get a player that can develop further, he's only 25.
Exactly it seems like some people are over looking that perron is still a fairly young player. He has already proven more and still has the ability to improve.

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07-11-2013, 01:04 PM
  #282
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From an outside perspective you guys won this trade hands down! Perron is unreal. Be prepared to be impressed. You guys will be crying tears of joy that you don't have to watch wide open nets get missed by PRV on a night to night basis. What I'm trying to say is Perron is WAYYY better than PRV and will remain to be throughout their careers. Good trade!

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07-11-2013, 01:12 PM
  #283
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I was not happy with this trade at first becuase of Perron's Concussion and I liked Maggie, but now I am starting to realize Perron is already the player we were all hoping PRV would become.

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07-11-2013, 01:36 PM
  #284
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For anybody still stuck on goalscoring potential of Maggie heres a bold comparison.

Perron has scored around as many goals in his NHL career as Magnus has scored ANYWHERE since he was 14 or 15. (for brevity and laziness I'm just going off of what NHL lists)

Magnus at 10 was always a strange pick. Never really had the goalscoring touch outside of games played for Sweden. Odd player all round.

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07-11-2013, 01:39 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
For anybody still stuck on goalscoring potential of Maggie heres a bold comparison.

Perron has scored around as many goals in his NHL career as Magnus has scored ANYWHERE since he was 14 or 15. (for brevity and laziness I'm just going off of what NHL lists)

Magnus at 10 was always a strange pick. Never really had the goalscoring touch outside of games played for Sweden. Odd player all round.
He fell to us in the draft, I remember a lot of people being completely stunned that Toronto took Kadri and left MPS for the Oilers.

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07-11-2013, 01:44 PM
  #286
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Let's face it PRV will never be a goal scorer

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07-11-2013, 01:45 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post

Magnus at 10 was always a strange pick. Never really had the goalscoring touch outside of games played for Sweden. Odd player all round.
He wasn't really a "strange" pick - he actually fell to us in the draft and was projected as a top 5 by many scouting services.

However, the question mark with Paajarvi was always the toolbox. He had/has a lot of raw skills but he's never been able to find a way to successfully use them.

Even in his rookie season where he played quite well at times, I remember questioning his top-end offensive upside. He just doesn't look like a comfortable offensive player when he crosses the blueline and I don't know if he ever will. He might end up being a 40 point player simply based on the tools he possesses but I honestly think Stalberg is his top-end upside.

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07-11-2013, 01:46 PM
  #288
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Perron on Oilers Now.

Reid Wilkins: When people ask you how tall you are, what do you tell them?

Perron: What kind of question is that?



BTW, he answered 6', 200lbs. I'm not sure I believe him, but whatever.

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07-11-2013, 01:46 PM
  #289
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http://www.truehockey.com/articles/T...roving-Himself

Solid article about Perron from Andy Strickland. Did a quick check, didn't think it was posted.

Makes me think we should bring in a Frenchie, less Perron chums it up with Chabot.

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07-11-2013, 01:47 PM
  #290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No Good Names Left View Post
One of the biggest ways I evaluate trades is, who got the best player. We did, hands down. Perron has a sic set of hands, great wrist shot, plays with a bit of and edge and controls the puck. He does things that PRV will never be able to do. PRV will be at best a 2nd line player, where I can see Perron being a 60-70 point player.
It's pretty much the only way to evaluate a trade imo. It's why I've always thought Toronto won the Kessel trade

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07-11-2013, 01:48 PM
  #291
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I'm confused, Replacement is happy with something the Oilers management did? Surely I am dreaming.
I think his account was hacked by Sequin.

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07-11-2013, 02:01 PM
  #292
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
If the Oilers dealt Smid for a 3rd liner, MacT deserves to be fired on the spot.
I'm not even a big Smid fan, i think he's a bit overrated but trading a top 4 Dman for a 3rd liner is a big step backwards.
Yes, Klefbom and eventually Nurse and Marincin are waiting in the wings but that doesn't make Smid expendable.
You trade players like N. Schultz for 3rd liners, not Smid.
I might be alone on this but the inclusion of N. Schultz in all these trade proposals is pointless. His value isn't very high and he does have past history of being a capable Top 4 defenceman, so I'd rather see how he plays this season in a not-so-ridiculous defensive scheme (cough Krueger cough) before trading him for nothing. He's actually my bet to be the rebound player for the Oilers this year. I think he'll have a very solid year.

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07-11-2013, 02:03 PM
  #293
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He wasn't really a "strange" pick - he actually fell to us in the draft and was projected as a top 5 by many scouting services.

However, the question mark with Paajarvi was always the toolbox. He had/has a lot of raw skills but he's never been able to find a way to successfully use them.

Even in his rookie season where he played quite well at times, I remember questioning his top-end offensive upside. He just doesn't look like a comfortable offensive player when he crosses the blueline and I don't know if he ever will. He might end up being a 40 point player simply based on the tools he possesses but I honestly think Stalberg is his top-end upside.
Yep.

When I say strange pick I don't mean we went out of the accepted box to make that pick. MPS had been prioritized on playing well in international high profile games. I'm referring to the latter. That a kid that looked good in those games never looked anything like it outside of those games. This kind of pick for some reasons seduces scouts. Maybe they figure the kid had more of a big game big competition potential.

What I get surprised at is how many scouts can make so much about a very limited set of games and ignore the players career otherwise.

There is something in Paajarvi, in the way he scores, that suggests he's a premium talent so if you look at that the player appears sublime at times. The big issue is Paajarvi has rarely gained any confidence in his lunchbucket.

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07-11-2013, 02:04 PM
  #294
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Originally Posted by TimeForAnOilChange View Post
I think his account was hacked by Sequin.
oh jebus, I feel dirty now. Scram kids.

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07-11-2013, 02:11 PM
  #295
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Originally Posted by Cloned View Post
I might be alone on this but the inclusion of N. Schultz in all these trade proposals is pointless. His value isn't very high and he does have past history of being a capable Top 4 defenceman, so I'd rather see how he plays this season in a not-so-ridiculous defensive scheme (cough Krueger cough) before trading him for nothing. He's actually my bet to be the rebound player for the Oilers this year. I think he'll have a very solid year.
With the Belov signing and Klefa knocking on the door, and Ference able to absorb the middle pairing minutes that N Schultz was getting ... I wonder if MacT would be able to fill a couple gaps with him?

N Scultz for bottom 6 help?

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07-11-2013, 02:14 PM
  #296
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Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
With the Belov signing and Klefa knocking on the door, and Ference able to absorb the middle pairing minutes that N Schultz was getting ... I wonder if MacT would be able to fill a couple gaps with him?

N Scultz for bottom 6 help?
I just don't see there being a market for him until more UFA dmen are off the market

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07-11-2013, 02:19 PM
  #297
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Yep, definitely lots of options still out there

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07-11-2013, 02:22 PM
  #298
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I haven't posted for a few days and it has given me a chance to digest this trade.

Here is how I see the latest move (Paajarvi for Perron) from MacT....

The Oilers traded a 3rd line player for a legit 2nd line (possibly 1st line) player.
They received a player that drives results and gave up a player that (to this point) doesn't.
They received a quality NHL player for a player that is still finding himself.
They traded a question mark for a known quantity.

So many question marks for Paajarvi.....

Can he find it within himself to play with courage and grit and use his size on a consistent basis?
Will he out perform his history in terms of his offence?

Only time will tell but based on what we do know about Paajarvi I would suggest that his top end is Radek Dvorak.

He is an inconsistent bottom 6 player right now and I would be willing to bet that Paajarvis top end is a very good bottom 6 player.
A useful player to be sure but NOT a legit top 6 player. I just dont see enough dimensions in his game to elevate him to a top 6 player.

The Oiler fans that dont like this deal have to ask themselves if they are really committed to the team improving now or if they are happy to remain on the rebuild treadmill for a few more years.
The rebuilding has to start bearing fruit and it has to do that this season.
The only way to get something substantial now is to trade potential.

Thats exactly what MacT did and its the right thing to do.



Interesting to note the comparison between the player the Oiler almost got (Clarkson) and the player they did get (Perron).

Clarkson

Size: 6'1"/200 lbs
Age: 29
Avg NHL PPG: 0.4
Contract$: $5.25M/yr 7 year term


Perron

Size: 6'0"/200 lbs (as reported by the player)
Age: 25
Avg NHL PPG: 0.58
Contract: $3.8M/yr 3 years left

Players are basically the same size. Perron is entering his prime Clarkson has peaked and will likely start to decline. Perron is a vastly superior offensive player and at least as good or not better defensively.
Perron will likely get better as well.

So for an additional $1.45M per season and a very restrictive additional 4 years the Oiler could have had a player in Clarkson who is offensively inferior and a little grittier.

Perron brings some grit and much better offence. Perron brings more cap flexibility and doesn't throw the salary structure out of whack.

I think the Oilers got very lucky not getting Clarkson and adding Perron in lieu of Clarkson is very solid from virtually every perspective.

The Perron trade is a trade Tambo would never have made. Thats why the team was in a continuous EXCRUCIATINGLY SLOW rebuild with Tambo at the helm.

This is an obvious upgrade and it makes the team better.
That much cant be contested.
This trade never happens if the cap system isn't in place.

The Oilers are making progress and if they have to trade more potential to get known NHL players then I am all for it. Thats simply smart asset management when you have been stockpiling draft picks and young players as long as this team has.

Thats how you build a winner and its about damn time this team started to win.


Last edited by guymez: 07-11-2013 at 02:33 PM.
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07-11-2013, 02:22 PM
  #299
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oh jebus, I feel dirty now. Scram kids.
lol, yeah you kind of seem like the old man that sits on his porch and yells at the kids to get off his lawn (just buggin ya)...and i'm no spring chicken myself btw.

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07-11-2013, 02:24 PM
  #300
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Originally Posted by The Nuge View Post
It's pretty much the only way to evaluate a trade imo. It's why I've always thought Toronto won the Kessel trade
Yeah, the only way Boston wins that trade (although I guess people say: they won the Cup) is long-term through Eriksson (previously Seguin) and Dougie Hamilton.

But any time it's a "hindsight" win it can't be a bad trade for the team that gets the immediate NHL star player.

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