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[EDM/STL] David Perron for Magnus Paajarvi + 2nd '14 | Part 2

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Old
07-12-2013, 02:05 AM
  #401
HeavyHitter99
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Originally Posted by Topkatz View Post
Hockey is a team game, not played by one individual. The supporting cast is critical to how a player performs. You said perron will score 50 points or more next season, ok lets see then if he will do it without the oilers completely changing their roster. Personally I dont see it happening right now.
Yes hockey is a team port obviously but who plays on the third line does not effect how Perron performs with his line mates. Many very good hockey players have not had a very good supporting cast but still produce.

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07-12-2013, 02:12 AM
  #402
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Right now our third line would be something like smyth gordon jones (assuming Hemsky is gone) so anything would be a significant upgrade.

Oh and you clearly know nothing about Perron if you think we have players like him. We have no **** disturbers who contribute 2nd line level offense and get in the face of goalies and piss off opposing players. If you don't know, don't speak.
And then that **** disturber gets run over by a 220lb defenceman while having no forwards to give it back to the other team, unlike the blues who have plenty of tough forwards that allowed perron space to play his game. That **** disturber on one team suddenly turns into a perimeter player on another.

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07-12-2013, 02:19 AM
  #403
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And then that **** disturber gets run over by a 220lb defenceman while having no forwards to give it back to the other team, unlike the blues who have plenty of tough forwards that allowed perron space to play his game. That **** disturber on one team suddenly turns into a perimeter player on another.
Ok so you proved you haven't watched him thank you. Whether or not that happens that has absolutely nothing to do with what kind of player he is right now. And btw the blues don't have "plenty" of tough forwards. Could you name them for me?

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07-12-2013, 02:24 AM
  #404
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And then that **** disturber gets run over by a 220lb defenceman while having no forwards to give it back to the other team, unlike the blues who have plenty of tough forwards that allowed perron space to play his game. That **** disturber on one team suddenly turns into a perimeter player on another.
Wow you actually got me nervous, really I was shaking, until I realized that we had around 4 guys 6 feet or under scoring at or above a 50 point pace this year. Relax, it's hockey not thunderdome

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07-12-2013, 02:25 AM
  #405
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And also I'm pretty sure Perron has gotten hit by a big dman in his six NHL seasons and continues to play his **** disturber game

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07-12-2013, 02:28 AM
  #406
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Wow you actually got me nervous, really I was shaking, until I realized that we had around 4 guys 6 feet or under scoring at or above a 50 point pace this year. Relax, it's hockey not thunderdome
Lmao he doesn't know what he's talking about. He thinks St. Louis has pleanty of tough forwards. I'm sitting here waiting for him to say Chris Stewart

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07-12-2013, 02:40 AM
  #407
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Originally Posted by HeavyHitter99 View Post
Lmao he doesn't know what he's talking about. He thinks St. Louis has pleanty of tough forwards. I'm sitting here waiting for him to say Chris Stewart
To be fair, Backes is tough as ****, and Cracknell can play pretty physically - but other than that, I agree that St. Louis' lineup isn't exactly full of monsters.

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07-12-2013, 02:45 AM
  #408
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To be fair, Backes is tough as ****, and Cracknell can play pretty physically - but other than that, I agree that St. Louis' lineup isn't exactly full of monsters.
Exactly! Backes definately, Cracknell maybe and Ryan Reaves. That's it. His arguments are weak. Oh my the big, scary, tough Blues

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07-12-2013, 02:59 AM
  #409
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Originally Posted by HeavyHitter99 View Post
Exactly! Backes definately, Cracknell maybe and Ryan Reaves. That's it. His arguments are weak. Oh my the big, scary, tough Blues
Blues may not be huge but they play like they are.

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07-12-2013, 03:08 AM
  #410
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Blues fan here. Blues are pretty tough up front. I'd say we're one of the bigger and most physical teams in the West along with LA. Has HeavyHitter seen Chris Stewart fight?

Anyways, if you guys think Perron is gonna be some extreme pest like a Steve Ott or anything even close to that you're going to be sorely disappointed. He's not really much of a pest at all, he doesn't hit or chirp or really get in anyone's face or any of that stuff. The only things he occasionally does is go annoy the goalie in front of the net before some defenseman throws him to the ice like a rag doll.

He's fearless, but he's not really going to add any toughness to your team or anything.

Granted I haven't had the time to read through your entire thread so maybe I'm off base on what you're talking about, but I just don't want you guys to get any misconceptions about him at all. He's not a physical player. He just has a lot of passion for the game and will do whatever to win, whether that's get mauled in front of the net or whatever. Most things don't seem to effect him (except for blind side hits which goes for any player).

Also the 205 lbs he's listed at on your site is pretty generous. I'd say he's about 6'0'' 195 maybe.

He has good hands. Just needs to learn how to release the puck quicker on his wrist shot if he wants to become that 30 goal scorer. But being surrounded with skilled guys in Edmonton, I think he could reach that number. He needs to play in an offensive system to fully use his creativity, but he still needs to make quicker decisions and shoot more. The talent is there for sure though.

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07-12-2013, 03:51 AM
  #411
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Originally Posted by BlueDream View Post
Blues fan here. Blues are pretty tough up front. I'd say we're one of the bigger and most physical teams in the West along with LA. Has HeavyHitter seen Chris Stewart fight?

Anyways, if you guys think Perron is gonna be some extreme pest like a Steve Ott or anything even close to that you're going to be sorely disappointed. He's not really much of a pest at all, he doesn't hit or chirp or really get in anyone's face or any of that stuff. The only things he occasionally does is go annoy the goalie in front of the net before some defenseman throws him to the ice like a rag doll.

He's fearless, but he's not really going to add any toughness to your team or anything.

Granted I haven't had the time to read through your entire thread so maybe I'm off base on what you're talking about, but I just don't want you guys to get any misconceptions about him at all. He's not a physical player. He just has a lot of passion for the game and will do whatever to win, whether that's get mauled in front of the net or whatever. Most things don't seem to effect him (except for blind side hits which goes for any player).

Also the 205 lbs he's listed at on your site is pretty generous. I'd say he's about 6'0'' 195 maybe.

He has good hands. Just needs to learn how to release the puck quicker on his wrist shot if he wants to become that 30 goal scorer. But being surrounded with skilled guys in Edmonton, I think he could reach that number. He needs to play in an offensive system to fully use his creativity, but he still needs to make quicker decisions and shoot more. The talent is there for sure though.
Thanks for your post. Its good to hear outside perspectives that are not centered around the oilers *thumbs up*

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07-12-2013, 03:52 AM
  #412
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
For anybody still stuck on goalscoring potential of Maggie heres a bold comparison.

Perron has scored around as many goals in his NHL career as Magnus has scored ANYWHERE since he was 14 or 15. (for brevity and laziness I'm just going off of what NHL lists)

Magnus at 10 was always a strange pick. Never really had the goalscoring touch outside of games played for Sweden. Odd player all round.
I don't know that people were/are stuck on the goal scoring potential of PRV. I just think that some like to point out that Perron may not necessarily be huge upgrade in terms of goal scoring. But we'll have to see how things play out and I hope I am wrong.

The issue I have with many of the posts here is that they undervalue what PRV did this last season and at the same time overvalue what Perron did in terms of goals/points. They were pretty much even and that's not an opinion.

That said, as a few posters have correctly pointed out, Perron was not brought in to score more goals than PRV. He does bring offense obviously but he also has other attributes that are a better fit for this team and there is no denying that he is the better player right now.



edit: I forgot the primary reason for why I replied to this specific post..

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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Perron has scored around as many goals in his NHL career as Magnus has scored ANYWHERE since he was 14 or 15. (for brevity and laziness I'm just going off of what NHL lists)
Come on man, this may be one of the worst comparisons ever. It seems as if you just jumped on the train with the people bashing Paajarvi just for the sake of it... Perron was playing in the NHL and was 19 - 25 years old, while Paajarvi was 15 - 21, and playing in SHL, AHL or NHL (I guess you only count those leagues, because otherwise your statement is wrong).

How can it be a surprise, or news, to anyone that a player between 19 and 25 has scored more than a player between 15 and 21 seeing as both played against men in that time?

If you want to prove that Perron is better than Paajarvi in scoring goals you can just point to their first three seasons in the NHL. That's perfectly fine and unlike what you wrote above actually a valid point in this case (even though some chumps like me would argue that Paajarvi was quite good this season and will probably improve further to record a 20+ goals season in 13/14).


Last edited by LaGu: 07-12-2013 at 04:06 AM.
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07-12-2013, 04:14 AM
  #413
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Originally Posted by Topkatz View Post
Thanks for your post. Its good to hear outside perspectives that are not centered around the oilers *thumbs up*
No problem. I appreciated your fans coming over and telling us some things about Paajarvi too. Just trying to offer some insight here. Perron is a very skilled player, I just hope you guys aren't expecting him to add toughness really.

He's not soft, but he's a skill guy first and foremost.

I think I'd be surprised if he wasn't a consistent 50+ point player in Edmonton. Maybe could hit 60 some seasons but not much more, assuming he sees some good powerplay time. Like I said, he has the hands and wrist shot. He just needs to round some things out and fire pucks on net quicker instead of dancing around with the puck (which he can be good at, but obviously stick-handling all the time won't lead to production). He'll be a great 2nd-liner for you.

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07-12-2013, 04:46 AM
  #414
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Of course this thread is dominated of posters who said Prv wasnt even Nhl material before this season and said he would bolt back to europe.

So a a fare judgenent on the trade and great analyzes about the players involved isnt to expect here. Prv gonna be a great 3- liner with 2 line upside, plays pk and draws penaltys. I agree that prv never will be a great scorer in nhl but with his speed he will create a lot for others.

Perron could be a good fit in our team(if we can trade away Gagner), but he isnt a sure thing if we expect a 70 p guy, he has hit 50 p once. I think the 2 round pick was overpay big time, but i hope the future tell us that i was wrong.

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07-12-2013, 05:47 AM
  #415
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An Oiler 2nd pick is worth a handful of pig slop.

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07-12-2013, 06:39 AM
  #416
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An Oiler 2nd pick is worth a handful of pig slop.
exactly

the pick is anywhere from #40 - #50 (maybe even better)

i think judging by this years draft most people in this organization are not really caring about the pick as much as fans are.

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07-12-2013, 07:50 AM
  #417
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Originally Posted by McClelland View Post
So a a fare judgenent on the trade and great analyzes about the players involved isnt to expect here. Prv gonna be a great 3- liner with 2 line upside, plays pk and draws penaltys. I agree that prv never will be a great scorer in nhl but with his speed he will create a lot for others.
That's interesting. You slag others for their comments on his actual play. The stats support their views. Maggie isn't a good PKer or even specially adept at drawing penalties. His speed through the neutral zone doesn't develop into anything in the offensive zone. He hasn't played against strong competition yet. I guess it's good to have hope, though.

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07-12-2013, 08:23 AM
  #418
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I don't know that people were/are stuck on the goal scoring potential of PRV. I just think that some like to point out that Perron may not necessarily be huge upgrade in terms of goal scoring. But we'll have to see how things play out and I hope I am wrong.

The issue I have with many of the posts here is that they undervalue what PRV did this last season and at the same time overvalue what Perron did in terms of goals/points. They were pretty much even and that's not an opinion.
Its not an opinion that one player is nearly twice as prolific as the other. Its not an opinion that one player established themselves as a true ringer of an NHL player on a very good NHL team as a rookie. While the other couldn't grab a spot or stay in the lineup on the worst team in the NHL. Think about that and let it sink in.


Quote:
Come on man, this may be one of the worst comparisons ever. It seems as if you just jumped on the train with the people bashing Paajarvi just for the sake of it... Perron was playing in the NHL and was 19 - 25 years old, while Paajarvi was 15 - 21, and playing in SHL, AHL or NHL (I guess you only count those leagues, because otherwise your statement is wrong).

How can it be a surprise, or news, to anyone that a player between 19 and 25 has scored more than a player between 15 and 21 seeing as both played against men in that time?

If you want to prove that Perron is better than Paajarvi in scoring goals you can just point to their first three seasons in the NHL. That's perfectly fine and unlike what you wrote above actually a valid point in this case (even though some chumps like me would argue that Paajarvi was quite good this season and will probably improve further to record a 20+ goals season in 13/14).
This is one of your strangest points. You know I like your posting, but this is twisting. One player scored 86 goals in the top league in the world. The other was playing in far lesser rungs of hockey and having trouble scoring much at all. Of course being that I'm going back as far as i can with Paajarvi theres also many more seasons in that mix. I suspect more games played as well. That you think I'm specious raising that Perron has as many NHL goals as Paajarvi has scored anywhere in his career is odd. If anything this head and shoulders demonstrates how much more Perron can produce in the premium league in the world. i thought it was a sobering point, and probably a few people agree. Nobody else questioned my point.

Paajarvi would score 86 NHL goals if he played another 5 NHL seasons. He has 26 now.

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07-12-2013, 08:26 AM
  #419
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Originally Posted by McClelland View Post
Of course this thread is dominated of posters who said Prv wasnt even Nhl material before this season and said he would bolt back to europe.

So a a fare judgenent on the trade and great analyzes about the players involved isnt to expect here. Prv gonna be a great 3- liner with 2 line upside, plays pk and draws penaltys. I agree that prv never will be a great scorer in nhl but with his speed he will create a lot for others.

Perron could be a good fit in our team(if we can trade away Gagner), but he isnt a sure thing if we expect a 70 p guy, he has hit 50 p once. I think the 2 round pick was overpay big time, but i hope the future tell us that i was wrong.
On the contrary you can go back to Paajarvi's rookie year TC reading me waxing on about this players attention to detail in camp and drills as he not only learns the routines and what is being asked of him he's explaining the drills to vets like Andrew Cogliano. My first response to Magnus was color me impressed. Unfortunately ample exposure to the player continued to devaluate ones view of his potential. You'll remember I liked MPS. Omark not so much....lol

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07-12-2013, 08:41 AM
  #420
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I was waiting for someone to be pissed that a second rounder was traded

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07-12-2013, 08:53 AM
  #421
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I was waiting for someone to be pissed that a second rounder was traded
No doubt. Since 1979 the Oilers have drafted three guys in the second round who ever did anything useful for this organization, four if you want to count Laraque. Graves imo is the most useful player the Oilers have ever drafted in the second round. I like David Perron a hell of a lot better than I like the chances of the Oilers picking anything useful with their second round pick.

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07-12-2013, 08:57 AM
  #422
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No doubt. Since 1979 the Oilers have drafted three guys in the second round who ever did anything useful for this organization, four if you want to count Laraque. Graves imo is the most useful player the Oilers have ever drafted in the second round. I like David Perron a hell of a lot better than I like the chances of the Oilers picking anything useful with their second round pick.
2nd's seems like very good chips to trade in getting a proven player. We did exactly what I would've wanted with that pick, although I wish we would've almost did this pre-draft and then had the 2014 2nd available at the TDD.

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07-12-2013, 08:59 AM
  #423
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The one thing that worries me with Horcoff and Paajarvi gone is that all of a sudden our PK options at the forward position are very limited. Gordon, Jones and *puke* Smyth? Guys like Eberle are going to have to learn a new skill and fast.
Perron's defensive play is underrated and he did play PK a lot.

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07-12-2013, 09:01 AM
  #424
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An Oiler 2nd pick is worth a handful of pig slop.
Only if we are the ones making the pick.

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07-12-2013, 09:14 AM
  #425
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Only if we are the ones making the pick.
Snap.

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