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Around the League #6: Dat Hertl

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Old
07-11-2013, 06:18 PM
  #351
dustrock
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
If Lou says that he just admitted to breaking another rule.

I'm sure there will be more to this story, but it's not going to be Lou admitting to anything.

I'm more curious to see how the NHL counters this going forward, with the IIHF as well.
No, it wouldn't be Lou admitting he knew Kovalchuk would do this - why would he say that? He would be saying it's clear to him now that Kovy never intended to fulfill the contract in the first place, so there was no "meeting of the minds" at the beginning and thus no contract, so NHL can't penalize them.

Not a great argument but I can't see any other way they can get their pick back.

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Old
07-11-2013, 06:32 PM
  #352
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Originally Posted by dustrock View Post
No, it wouldn't be Lou admitting he knew Kovalchuk would do this - why would he say that? He would be saying it's clear to him now that Kovy never intended to fulfill the contract in the first place, so there was no "meeting of the minds" at the beginning and thus no contract, so NHL can't penalize them.

Not a great argument but I can't see any other way they can get their pick back.
There is absolutely no cap circumvention at any point. You can understand that from a logical point

first point -

If 3 years ago they knew Ilya wouldn't honour a full contract they would have at the very least did more to make sure they didn't get penalized for trying to structure a contract against league rules (clearly showing two parties intent to play a full contract). This isn't to say ilya was to honour the last 3-4 years in the contract but it does show the intent and understanding from both sides he would play a bulk of the contract

second point -

there was almost guaranteed to be ongoing talks with ilya to stay if lou had any part in saying yes lets have a mutual agreement we're going to let you retire, it is guaranteed it would have been discussed a couple weeks ago to prepare the team for the draft and free agency.

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Old
07-11-2013, 06:33 PM
  #353
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Originally Posted by dustrock View Post
No, it wouldn't be Lou admitting he knew Kovalchuk would do this - why would he say that? He would be saying it's clear to him now that Kovy never intended to fulfill the contract in the first place, so there was no "meeting of the minds" at the beginning and thus no contract, so NHL can't penalize them.

Not a great argument but I can't see any other way they can get their pick back.
I am no law talking guy, but wouldn't the cba specify that only players under contract can play in the NHL? Since Kovalchuk played for them he would have been considered under contract at the time. Any player can retire, for any reason. The fact that it was a player that a team attempted to circumvent the cap in order to sign, before successfully signing, shouldn't make a difference. Should it?

I just don't see any way they can keep their pick, unless the NHL decides to go easy on them. And I am sure their division rivals and the teams with a pick after them would have something to say about that.

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07-11-2013, 06:54 PM
  #354
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Hahaha my roomate traded for Kovy LAST NIGHT in our keeper league and was so pumped. Prancing around the house saying his team was stacked etc... This is amazing.

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Old
07-11-2013, 07:23 PM
  #355
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On Kovalchuk retiring, how is this not one of the strangest off seasons ever? These stories just get stranger and stranger.

Alfie signs with Wings.
Ryan goes to Sens.
Bruins give up on Seguin.
Seguin's twitter gets hacked during first night in Dallas.
Edmonton lands one of the top 10 free agents available.
Flooding in Calgary


I know I left out a bunch there, but that list is more than long enough for me.

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Old
07-11-2013, 07:38 PM
  #356
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How much longer until the anti-Yakupov crowd starts suggesting he'll do the same?
This is what bothers me, why even mention this...

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Old
07-11-2013, 07:52 PM
  #357
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This is what bothers me, why even mention this...
An important thing to note is that the Devil's are agreeing to terminate his contract. They don't have to. If another player tried to pull this there is nothing stopping their team from suspending them for refusing to report and the player can't play anywhere.

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Old
07-11-2013, 08:17 PM
  #358
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So do the devils still loose the 1st rd pick next yr for circumventing the cap on the kovie contract ?

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07-11-2013, 08:21 PM
  #359
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So do the devils still loose the 1st rd pick next yr for circumventing the cap on the kovie contract ?
Yes. Kovalchuk retiring doesn't change past actions by the Devils.

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07-11-2013, 08:24 PM
  #360
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Sad for the NHL as a whole, Kovi is a great scorer

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Old
07-11-2013, 08:33 PM
  #361
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Sad for the NHL as a whole, Kovi is a great scorer
Calling him a great scorer - while he is - seems a bit patronizing/dumbing things down... He is a great player, an elite player IMO who is incredibly entertaining to watch and was always a class act. This is a loss for the league as a whole as one of the best players in the game today is leaving for Russia. Although I bet you the Devils ownership and management perhaps as well are happy about this... and yet they're going to be worse off for it... screw NJ, what a ****ing joke they are...

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07-11-2013, 08:55 PM
  #362
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Originally Posted by Philly85 View Post
Calling him a great scorer - while he is - seems a bit patronizing/dumbing things down... He is a great player, an elite player IMO who is incredibly entertaining to watch and was always a class act. This is a loss for the league as a whole as one of the best players in the game today is leaving for Russia. Although I bet you the Devils ownership and management perhaps as well are happy about this... and yet they're going to be worse off for it... screw NJ, what a ****ing joke they are...
I'm kinda confused as to how this is New Jersey's fault. It would be like blaming us for the Pronger situation.

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Old
07-11-2013, 08:55 PM
  #363
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Old
07-11-2013, 10:26 PM
  #364
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So do the devils still loose the 1st rd pick next yr for circumventing the cap on the kovie contract ?

The penalty was for attempting to circumvent the cap on the first contract with Kovy (the league rejected it) so yes, I think they'll still lose the draft pick.

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Old
07-11-2013, 11:21 PM
  #365
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I'm kinda confused as to how this is New Jersey's fault. It would be like blaming us for the Pronger situation.
1. I never blamed Pronger
2. It was one of the dumbest, most ridiculous contracts anyone has ever seen, and no one expected Kovalchuk to fulfil that contract. Therefor it's their fault for even devising then offering it to Kovalchuk in the first place. They pushed a player out wether inadvertently, unforeseen or not.
3. He's going to "retire", play a few years in Russia perhaps and then come back
4. Or not. He's Russian, and simply wants to retire or just make more money playing back at home. He's not going to another NHL team.
5. Again, that contract (Lou) is so stupid. Combine that with the fact the NJD are going nowhere fast in terms of legit competitiveness and their franchise as a whole is bleeding cash, there are not many positives to come by...

I'm sure it was a mutual agreement/parting of ways. I find it laughable how people want to pin it completely on Kovalchuk.

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Old
07-11-2013, 11:38 PM
  #366
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As smart of a GM as LL has been, he looks like a real meat head for not giving up that 29th overall when he had the chance.

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Old
07-12-2013, 12:00 AM
  #367
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Sad for the NHL as a whole, Kovi is a great scorer
He might be a great scorer, but he's definitely a loser. This story makes me sick. Hopefully he'll be banned from the NHL for life so that in three years when he decides he wants to be in the NHL again that won't be an option.

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07-12-2013, 12:21 AM
  #368
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As smart of a GM as LL has been, he looks like a real meat head for not giving up that 29th overall when he had the chance.
The best part is how easily Stefan matteau could bust.

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Old
07-12-2013, 09:10 AM
  #369
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I think Tencer voiced my fears the best. Loud and clear.
You know what, maybe 3 or 4 more Russians going back would smarten ownerships and the NHL up.

All signs point to the lockout being the reason these guys are going back. Guys go back to Russia are heros, playing close to their families, making similar if not more money and they have no escrow.

NHL gave it's players Hall Passes and at least one high profile player likes the forbidden fruit

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Old
07-12-2013, 10:08 AM
  #370
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I don't know if anyone has mentioned this already, but the reason NJD didn't give up their 2012 1st round pick (29th overall) was because there was miss-communication/miss-understanding between the NHL and NJDs. The Devils were under the impression they had a longer time frame to submit the paperwork to the NHL (something like 72 hours) when they only had 48 hours.

The Devils wanted to give up their 2012 pick but missed the deadline.
Link?

All I've ever heard from Devils fans is giving up the pick was against Lou's M.O. as sacrificing it would be an indicator to his team that he didn't think they could improve.

Sadly, your scenario is almost better than willingly making such a stupid decision based on nothing other than principle.

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Old
07-12-2013, 10:12 AM
  #371
joestevens29
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Originally Posted by Krut View Post
Link?

All I've ever heard from Devils fans is giving up the pick was against Lou's M.O. as sacrificing it would be an indicator to his team that he didn't think they could improve.

Sadly, your scenario is almost better than willingly making such a stupid decision based on nothing other than principle.
Which is fine, but when you have the 29th overall pick you don't play the odds that you'd win the cup the next year.

I was always under the impression he'd wait until the very last year as he might not be there by the time he has to give up the pick, so he wanted to keep all the assets he can.

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Old
07-12-2013, 10:40 AM
  #372
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Yakupov is the new Kovalchuk. In terms of the way he plays. Always reminded me of Kovy.

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Old
07-12-2013, 10:47 AM
  #373
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He might be a great scorer, but he's definitely a loser. This story makes me sick. Hopefully he'll be banned from the NHL for life so that in three years when he decides he wants to be in the NHL again that won't be an option.
Respectfully disagree. I think its refreshing when an individual puts family, quality of life, and their heart ahead of making yet more gobs of money.

Rare, but refreshing.

Certainly he's not a loser.

That said KHL is going to be more and more a reasonable option for many more players. Several rinks, including the one in Sochi, are putting a different potential spin on KHL. 5-10yrs from now who's to say that a Euro-Asian expanded league market doesn't hold similar weight to the NHL. The world order is changing. Economically, power, etc. NA's dance in the sun could be past zenith.

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07-12-2013, 11:10 AM
  #374
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Respectfully disagree. I think its refreshing when an individual puts family, quality of life, and their heart ahead of making yet more gobs of money.

Rare, but refreshing.

Certainly he's not a loser.

That said KHL is going to be more and more a reasonable option for many more players. Several rinks, including the one in Sochi, are putting a different potential spin on KHL. 5-10yrs from now who's to say that a Euro-Asian expanded league market doesn't hold similar weight to the NHL. The world order is changing. Economically, power, etc. NA's dance in the sun could be past zenith.
To be fair, he'll still be making those same gobs of money, in probably half the time. Pretty sure that factors in with family, quality of life and heart.

I have to admit, I'm a little curious as to what the landscape of pro hockey will look like in 10 years.

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Old
07-12-2013, 11:11 AM
  #375
s7ark
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Respectfully disagree. I think its refreshing when an individual puts family, quality of life, and their heart ahead of making yet more gobs of money.

Rare, but refreshing.

Certainly he's not a loser.

That said KHL is going to be more and more a reasonable option for many more players. Several rinks, including the one in Sochi, are putting a different potential spin on KHL. 5-10yrs from now who's to say that a Euro-Asian expanded league market doesn't hold similar weight to the NHL. The world order is changing. Economically, power, etc. NA's dance in the sun could be past zenith.
Kovalchuk isn't leaving for the money? So all those rumours of him getting 15M per season are bunk? Yes he left a lot of money on the table in north America. But it was so he could get even more money in Russia. He is 100% leaving for the money.

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