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Old
07-12-2013, 10:16 AM
  #376
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Kovalchuk isn't leaving for the money? So all those rumours of him getting 15M per season are bunk? Yes he left a lot of money on the table in north America. But it was so he could get even more money in Russia. He is 100% leaving for the money.
I haven't been tuned in much to this so never heard the rumors.

In anycase what is the issue?

Those of us old enough to remember the WHA know that an NHL contract is only ever an NHL contract.

So what if Kovi can make more money playing in his country of origin. Why wouldn't he?

Not sure why people are upset about this. I don't get it.

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07-12-2013, 10:47 AM
  #377
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
I haven't been tuned in much to this so never heard the rumors.

In anycase what is the issue?

Those of us old enough to remember the WHA know that an NHL contract is only ever an NHL contract.

So what if Kovi can make more money playing in his country of origin. Why wouldn't he?

Not sure why people are upset about this. I don't get it.
I am not upset. I am saying he isn't leaving for friends and family as you suggested. He's leaving because he can make the money that remained on his NHL contract in 5 years and then return to the NHL or sign another lucrative KHL deal.

This move is all about the money.

Here is the rumour of his possible salary

https://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2013/7/...ent-devils-khl

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07-12-2013, 10:58 AM
  #378
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I am not upset. I am saying he isn't leaving for friends and family as you suggested. He's leaving because he can make the money that remained on his NHL contract in 5 years and then return to the NHL or sign another lucrative KHL deal.

This move is all about the money.

Here is the rumour of his possible salary

https://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2013/7/...ent-devils-khl
It's not just one thing. I think when it comes down to it, if the money is the same then you move back home to your friends and family. If the money wasn't there I doubt he'd go back though.

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07-12-2013, 11:06 AM
  #379
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Another element of the whole Kovalchuk saga is the fact that his father died two years ago, and his mother is all by herself outside of Saint Petersburg. I don't blame him for going home, but man did he ever throw a grenade at the Devils. At the very least he should've left before UFA so they could've tried to fill some holes. I have a sneakin suspicion Lou has known about this for a while though and was just kinda hoping it wouldn't happen.

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07-12-2013, 11:11 AM
  #380
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Another element of the whole Kovalchuk saga is the fact that his father died two years ago, and his mother is all by herself outside of Saint Petersburg. I don't blame him for going home, but man did he ever throw a grenade at the Devils. At the very least he should've left before UFA so they could've tried to fill some holes. I have a sneakin suspicion Lou has known about this for a while though and was just kinda hoping it wouldn't happen.
Sounds like Lou was aware, who knows maybe Lou wanted him to keep quiet so that agents and GM"s didn't use it against Lou in deals and signings.

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07-12-2013, 11:13 AM
  #381
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Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
I am not upset. I am saying he isn't leaving for friends and family as you suggested. He's leaving because he can make the money that remained on his NHL contract in 5 years and then return to the NHL or sign another lucrative KHL deal.

This move is all about the money.

Here is the rumour of his possible salary

https://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2013/7/...ent-devils-khl
I never said you were upset about it. I'm seeing some posts that seem to be reactions to it.

Again whats wrong with Kovy leaving the NHL for what he considers greener pastures. Admittedly I don't understand the issue, as I've stated. So with that I'm just looking for more information on why others view it differently.

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07-12-2013, 11:53 AM
  #382
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So did Ryane Clowe know when he signed the 5-year deal that Kovalchuk wouldn't be there anymore? Is he ticked now or does he even care?

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07-12-2013, 12:24 PM
  #383
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I wonder if the Devils werent behind this TBH. They get a ton of cap space and save themselves around 60 million actual dollars. If they werent behind it I'm willing to bet they didnt try too hard to keep him here.

It would be less of a surprise if he quit 3-4 years from now but its all very fishy imho and i dont think the devils hands are clean in this.
My nature is to see conspiracies everywhere.. so I wonder this also... and what about that pick that was never given up?

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07-12-2013, 12:39 PM
  #384
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So did Ryane Clowe know when he signed the 5-year deal that Kovalchuk wouldn't be there anymore? Is he ticked now or does he even care?
On one hand, I assume he is disappointed; Kovalchuk was one of the best players in the league. On the other hand, he just ensured his financial future and playing career for the next half decade.

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07-12-2013, 12:47 PM
  #385
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Respectfully disagree. I think its refreshing when an individual puts family, quality of life, and their heart ahead of making yet more gobs of money. Rare, but refreshing.
If I thought for a minute that was the case here I'd be agreeing with you.

Lets remember that this is a guy who turned down twelve year $101 million and seven year $70 million offers from the Thrashers before being traded and eventually signing his illegal (longest in the history of the MHL) seventeen year deal with the Devils. This guy has always been about the money.
All the hoopla surrounding his free agency and his "demands" was ridiculous.

Second, I've always been a believer in honoring the contracts you sign. I criticize Kovalchuck for the same reasons I criticize Pronger. Its even worse in Kovalchuck's case because he had the gall to sign a seventeen year deal. Who does that?

Kovalchuck gets no special consideration because he's Russian. He wants to play at home? Fine, do so after you have honored your contractual obligations. Or better yet, don't lobby to get yourself the longest contract in NHL history if you are so unsure of your ability to endure life away from your homeland.

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Certainly he's not a loser.
It would be tough to call him a winner given his NHL career.

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That said KHL is going to be more and more a reasonable option for many more players. Several rinks, including the one in Sochi, are putting a different potential spin on KHL.
I have no problem with that. The Russians produce a lot of great players and its natural that the fans there want to see their best players.
If more Russian players elect to play at home that would be fine with me. Not like the NHL is going to fold up or anything.

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5-10yrs from now who's to say that a Euro-Asian expanded league market doesn't hold similar weight to the NHL. The world order is changing. Economically, power, etc. NA's dance in the sun could be past zenith.
I'd say that's extremely unlikely. I'm familiar with the "hockey" played in Asian countries like China, ROK and Japan. Trust me, its laughable. Russia has money for now, but most of the Asian states created out of the USSR are still pretty poor and backward. Infrastructure and air travel is dodgy to say the least. Even in the KHL there are probably only a half dozen really first class franchises (by NHL standards).

Kovalchuck will float his way through the rest of his career. I'm glad I won't have to watch it.

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07-12-2013, 01:10 PM
  #386
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Another element of the whole Kovalchuk saga is the fact that his father died two years ago, and his mother is all by herself outside of Saint Petersburg.
Can't begrudge the guy. Life comes before work.

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07-12-2013, 05:58 PM
  #387
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07-12-2013, 08:23 PM
  #388
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Originally Posted by The Great Ones View Post
So did Ryane Clowe know when he signed the 5-year deal that Kovalchuk wouldn't be there anymore? Is he ticked now or does he even care?
Clowe wanted to be in New York, but they didn't have the cap space to pay him. So he moved an hour away.

He didn't sign there because he thought they were contenders, basically.

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07-12-2013, 08:25 PM
  #389
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Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
Kovalchuk isn't leaving for the money? So all those rumours of him getting 15M per season are bunk? Yes he left a lot of money on the table in north America. But it was so he could get even more money in Russia. He is 100% leaving for the money.
100% is an exaggeration.

He could have left, likely for more money, without restrictions when he was a UFA a few summers ago. They were throwing garbage trucks full of money at him, and he choose to sign in the NHL.

Safer bet is that it's a mixture of money, family and disillusionment with the New Jersey Devils.

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07-13-2013, 02:22 AM
  #390
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100% is an exaggeration.

He could have left, likely for more money, without restrictions when he was a UFA a few summers ago. They were throwing garbage trucks full of money at him, and he choose to sign in the NHL.

Safer bet is that it's a mixture of money, family and disillusionment with the New Jersey Devils.
Why is that?

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07-13-2013, 11:26 AM
  #391
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Why is that?
I'm wondering as well. If anything it should be the Devils disillusioned with Mr Kovalchuck.

I will say one thing for the guy .... using your momma to get your message out is new tricks for the NHL, and classy too. Lest there be any remaining doubt as to what a clod this guy is, here is the second of two articles in which Mrs Kovalchuck Sr. waxes on about business and the trials and hardships of NHL millionaires. The best line?

"No one else would pay him. He was a Devil by default, and certainly not a Devil for life."

Pretty much says it all.

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl...160950980.html

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07-13-2013, 12:20 PM
  #392
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If I thought for a minute that was the case here I'd be agreeing with you.

Lets remember that this is a guy who turned down twelve year $101 million and seven year $70 million offers from the Thrashers before being traded and eventually signing his illegal (longest in the history of the MHL) seventeen year deal with the Devils. This guy has always been about the money.
All the hoopla surrounding his free agency and his "demands" was ridiculous.

Second, I've always been a believer in honoring the contracts you sign. I criticize Kovalchuck for the same reasons I criticize Pronger. Its even worse in Kovalchuck's case because he had the gall to sign a seventeen year deal. Who does that?
I'm kind of past criticizing greedy players because its not a subset of the species, it is the species. I threw up as early as 1990 when Mark Messier was extolling the virtues of kids coming to the rink to see games as a kid and how he was able to do that (his family had somewhat modest means at the time and I knew him) while at the same time engaged in yet another contractual impasse where he felt that he wasn't paid enough dime. My first thought was that this generation of player is leading to a pricing of game that kids WON'T be able to see. So nothing surprised or disappoints me anymore in that regard as bird has already flown so many times.

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Kovalchuck gets no special consideration because he's Russian. He wants to play at home? Fine, do so after you have honored your contractual obligations. Or better yet, don't lobby to get yourself the longest contract in NHL history if you are so unsure of your ability to endure life away from your homeland.
See, ever since the WHA I'm more inclined to think that NHL contracts hold limited legal right to pursue and I think that because the WHA won in court and NHL contracts could be stampled on. All NHL contracts arguably do is limit movements within that league. Outside of the league is fair game as we are seeing again in this instance and that we will see a lot more of.

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It would be tough to call him a winner given his NHL career.
I don't hold this view of player worth. A lot of players that never win the SC are winners in my mind. Joe Thornton is a winner. Somebody imminently successful at imo the hardest sport to play in the world and at the absolute top of his craft. A generational talent. I do also think SC teams often involve some player here, player there serendipity. If Bickell for instance doesn't play out of his mind fantastic in first two rounds and be the most dangerous Hawk on the ice this SC pure and simple doesn't happen. Theres almost always some unlikely unsung contributions that seperate winning from losing. In a team sport winners and losers are rarely defined individually.

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I have no problem with that. The Russians produce a lot of great players and its natural that the fans there want to see their best players.
If more Russian players elect to play at home that would be fine with me. Not like the NHL is going to fold up or anything.
No, but exlusivity is dead and done. Both contractually, marketing, world rights etc. Don't think for a moment either that an American Broadcaster may be seduced by a future KHL or Eurasia based league. American broadcasters have kind of always thumbed their noses at the Canadian loaded player talent in NHL while waxing on about any import player.

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I'd say that's extremely unlikely. I'm familiar with the "hockey" played in Asian countries like China, ROK and Japan. Trust me, its laughable. Russia has money for now, but most of the Asian states created out of the USSR are still pretty poor and backward. Infrastructure and air travel is dodgy to say the least. Even in the KHL there are probably only a half dozen really first class franchises (by NHL standards).
The bolded is irrelevant. I mentioned the clear shifts that taking place in the world. Countries that don't produce great players worth watching will simply have the bucks to pay them to come. Theres going to be some league expansion, more notoriety, and player raids. This pretty much a given. NHL has had their exclusivity for about as long as thats going to happen. Hockey is marketable after all.

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Kovalchuck will float his way through the rest of his career. I'm glad I won't have to watch it.
Lots of NHL players appear to do this. Why so critical of this one? Just curious. You're generally more objective than me but in this instance you don't like this player or at least thats what I'm sensing.

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07-13-2013, 01:25 PM
  #393
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Kovalchuk's decision to go home was made for many reasons. Most of them are even legit...and several of them are (at least for now) unstated.

I think Sochi is part of it. I think the Devils lack of money is a big part of it. I think the Devils lack of supplemental talent is (small) part of it. I think family is part of it. I don't deny the fact he can make big $$$ in Russia is part of it, too.

Truth is...a lot of players & coaches have left the Devils in the last little while.

Not saying its an epidemic. Maybe just coincidence. Who knows for sure...but..Kovalchuk can't be maligned anymore than any of countless 100's of players who have pulled the pin on teams/leagues (including the Devils) over the years.

It doesn't help matters that the KHL clearly wants to compete with the NHL for the attention of Russian players and the NHL's reaction is: "Well we can live with that. We don't need Russians."

Personally...I wish the Russian players would commit to the NHL for my own selfish reasons.

I understand the personal & financial reasons why this is not happening...but...the NHL calls itself the best league in the world. They should stop pissing around and start taking the KHL more seriously because the NHL is a MUCH less impressive league with only 3% of its player base made of Russians.

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07-13-2013, 01:42 PM
  #394
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Haha, Luongo is at it on Twitter again.
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07-14-2013, 12:32 AM
  #395
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I'm kind of past criticizing greedy players because its not a subset of the species, it is the species.
Its an excellent point, and one I sometimes forget.
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I don't hold this view of player worth. A lot of players that never win the SC are winners in my mind. Joe Thornton is a winner.
Partly agree, partly disagree. Obviously all NHL players are winners to some extent - certainly when compared with regular Joes like myself. But I dunno that I'd consider Thornton a winner. Are the Sedins winners? Is Alfredsson a winner? I kind of think not if we are talking about their NHL careers .... and I certainly wouldn't consider Kovy a winner. Maybe he can win something in the KHL, I suppose that would be nice for him.
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No, but exlusivity is dead and done. Both contractually, marketing, world rights etc. Don't think for a moment either that an American Broadcaster may be seduced by a future KHL or Eurasia based league. American broadcasters have kind of always thumbed their noses at the Canadian loaded player talent in NHL while waxing on about any import player.
Wait so are you saying you think an American broadcaster would pick up the rights to an overseas league? The bolded doesn't seem to follow with the rest of your thought ... or maybe I'm not reading it right. I seriously doubt that any overseas hockey games will ever catch interest in North America - even the NHL is still a minor sport. Do you think Americans really want to watch a game between some club teams from Kazakhstan?
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The bolded is irrelevant. I mentioned the clear shifts that taking place in the world. Countries that don't produce great players worth watching will simply have the bucks to pay them to come.
Again I'm having trouble picking up what you are laying down here. Baseball, for which the Japanese have traditionally gone crazy, is no longer televised in Japan because it just didn't draw the viewers. No soccer either except on local channels. The "hockey" league started between Japan, China and ROK has been a dismal failure and teams are folding left and right. The only league that might ever rival the NHL would be a KHL + SEL + Finnish Elite league combination. Do you honestly see that happening in our lifetime? I don't.

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Lots of NHL players appear to do this. Why so critical of this one? Just curious. You're generally more objective than me but in this instance you don't like this player or at least thats what I'm sensing.
I admit I never liked Kovalchuck. Lazy player on a crappy team. What's to like?

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07-14-2013, 12:40 AM
  #396
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Just as a quick note when I use Eurasia my intent is referring to Europe, the former USSR, and the baltic states. I'm not inferring that hockey would take off in other parts of Asia just to make that clear.

As far as the US yeah, probably a stretch. Just kind of pisses me off historically that Canadian players are considered hacks in the US, by US broadcasters who fawn over any import players all day any day. In an NHL league composed of 60% Canadian players its a joke how little focus any of them get in US based telecasts.

I almost think Russian, Swede Czech hockey imported to the US to play against americans players and team would be a far bigger sell in the US than the NHL. Just subtract all the Canadian filler and they'd somehow eat it up.

ps I don't particularly like Kovy either.

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07-14-2013, 04:38 AM
  #397
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I don't hold this view of player worth. A lot of players that never win the SC are winners in my mind. Joe Thornton is a winner. Somebody imminently successful at imo the hardest sport to play in the world and at the absolute top of his craft. A generational talent. I do also think SC teams often involve some player here, player there serendipity. If Bickell for instance doesn't play out of his mind fantastic in first two rounds and be the most dangerous Hawk on the ice this SC pure and simple doesn't happen. Theres almost always some unlikely unsung contributions that seperate winning from losing. In a team sport winners and losers are rarely defined individually.
Absolutely, in fact if you watched only game 6 of this SC or final 3 games you would have thought Toews, Kane, and there top guys were world beaters. Thornton still is invited to the Olympics and other events outside of the NHL. Very fine line between winning and losing, and also being at the right place at the right time. I would cite Osgood, and Penner in these two instances guys playing on great teams, catch lightning in the bottle.

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The bolded is irrelevant. I mentioned the clear shifts that taking place in the world. Countries that don't produce great players worth watching will simply have the bucks to pay them to come. Theres going to be some league expansion, more notoriety, and player raids. This pretty much a given. NHL has had their exclusivity for about as long as thats going to happen. Hockey is marketable after all.
While this may have some merit. The NHL still has the notoriety for being the oldest league of the 4 major sports in North America. This absolutely has the psychological influence of current and future people/players around the world who watch/play hockey. Its become the gold standard and made the distinction of being the best players in the best league as gary bettman likes to say. Also winning a stanley cup still gives most players more international acclaim than many would like to think. I remember years ago Jiri dopita a guy who played his whole life in europe felt like he had to prove he could play in this league, so it certainly hasn't lost cache on people who have never been immersed in the culture of the best of the best

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As far as the US yeah, probably a stretch. Just kind of pisses me off historically that Canadian players are considered hacks in the US, by US broadcasters who fawn over any import players all day any day. In an NHL league composed of 60% Canadian players its a joke how little focus any of them get in US based telecasts.

I almost think Russian, Swede Czech hockey imported to the US to play against americans players and team would be a far bigger sell in the US than the NHL. Just subtract all the Canadian filler and they'd somehow eat it up.

ps I don't particularly like Kovy either.
The NHL in the u.s will always have the canada vs u.s angle too it , so you have to point it out more about being that its a rivalry and so a u.s. based channel isn't going to exactly fawn over the great talent to the north.

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07-14-2013, 11:58 PM
  #398
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Its always a bit sad to read how maligned Russian players are in North America.

I've trained with Russians. They put a lot into their trade.

Guys like Kovalchuk are special talents. But don't kid yourselves...its all about the work he put in over 25+ years...to get to the point where he IS good enough to "walk away" from 77MM.

Its a dubious decision.

But please...don't try and tell me the guy wasn't/isn't as good as anything we've seen in the modern era.

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07-15-2013, 01:06 AM
  #399
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Kovalchuk gave the NHL 12 and probably the best years of his playing career. He owes the NHL nothing. I think the only thing left for him was winning a Stanley Cup and in his eyes it wasn't going to happen with the Devils. He didn't want to play for the Devils anymore, knew they wouldn't or couldn't trade him, so he just bailed. The Devils were probably hoping this would happen so they didn't make too much of a fuss about it on his way out. Katz would have been outside his window with a ghetto blaster in the rain if he pulled this on the Oilers.

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07-15-2013, 01:48 AM
  #400
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Why is that?
New Jersey missed payments to players this year. They had to borrow money from the league.

They've lost player after player, their next best forward is almost about to retire. Schneider is a great long term investment for them, but he's not going to be the next Marty Brodeur. It's a franchise that has been hot and cold and trending down. One more reason for him to bail.

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