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Old
07-12-2013, 09:55 AM
  #926
preds1
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Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
No, he does not have a one timer to speak of. His shot is very average overall.
Agree 100%.
Hustle and gargabe goals in tight is his thing.

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Old
07-12-2013, 09:59 AM
  #927
token grinder
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Originally Posted by alexmanu View Post
I'm still worried we don't have that one elite scorer. Most teams in the league have an elite offensive player. I mean just go down the list:

Anaheim - Perry/Getzlaf
Bruins - Eriksson
Sabres - Vanek
Flames - ?
Canes - Eric Staal
Blackhawks - Kane/Toews/Hossa
Avs - Duchene
CBJ - Gaborik
Stars - Benn
Detroit - Datsyuk/Zetterberg
Oilers - Eberle
Panthers - ? (Huberdeau in future)
Kings - Kopitar
Wild - Parise
Canadiens - Pacioretty/Plekanec
Nashville - ?
Devils - Elias (Did have Kovalchuk this past season)
Islanders - Tavares
Rangers - Stepan/Nash/Richards
Senators - Spezza
Flyers - Giroux
Coyotes - ?
Pens - Crosby/Malkin/Neal
Sharks - Thornton/Couture
Blues - ? (Tarasenko in future)
TB - Stamkos
Leafs - Kessel
Canucks - Sedins
Caps - Ovechkin
Jets - ?

So we are maybe in a select few of 5 or 6 teams in the league that do not have an elite offensive player. A common theme with all of those teams other than maybe the Preds, Coyotes and Blues is that they do not have playoff success or even reach the playoffs. The reason Preds, Coyotes and Blues do is because of our defence and goaltending. But that doesn't get you far enough in the playoffs. If you hope to win the cup then you need one or two elite offensive players on your team.

Vanek is certainly an option, but he will only be a rental and I would be hesitant to give up assets for such a player. Especially after bad past experiences with the likes of AK46 and Gaustad.

It seems as though Poile is going back to the 'score by committee' approach. Which could certainly get us to the playoffs, maybe even past the first round, but it won't win us the cup. For Poile's sake he has to hope Wilson or Forsberg turn elite pretty soon.
how many of those have a Norris quality defenceman and vezina quality goaltender making over 12 million combined? Poile chose to spend the elite money there.

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07-12-2013, 10:04 AM
  #928
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Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
how many of those have a Norris quality defenceman and vezina quality goaltender making over 12 million combined? Poile chose to spend the elite money there.
That only gets you so far though. You need at least one elite offensive player to compete for the cup IMHO.

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07-12-2013, 10:10 AM
  #929
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Originally Posted by alexmanu View Post
That only gets you so far though. You need at least one elite offensive player to compete for the cup IMHO.
Boston won the cup and made it to the finals without an elite offensive player. The guy you have on the list for them they traded for this season.

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Old
07-12-2013, 10:15 AM
  #930
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Originally Posted by INDhockeyfan View Post
Boston won the cup and made it to the finals without an elite offensive player. The guy you have on the list for them they traded for this season.
Bergeron, Lucic, Marchand and Krejci are all significantly better than any of our top 6. I could've put any of those in instead of Eriksson.

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Old
07-12-2013, 10:18 AM
  #931
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Originally Posted by alexmanu View Post
Bergeron, Lucic, Marchand and Krejci are all significantly better than any of our top 6. I could've put any of those in instead of Eriksson.
Yes I agree they are all better and together they make a very good scoring team but by themselves I wouldn't call them elite.

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07-12-2013, 10:20 AM
  #932
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Originally Posted by INDhockeyfan View Post
Yes I agree they are all better and together they make a very good scoring team but by themselves I wouldn't call them elite.
Meh I think you could call them elite offensive players. Lucic especially. He gets 60pts + and is extremely physical and a dominant presence.

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07-12-2013, 10:37 AM
  #933
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Originally Posted by alexmanu View Post
That only gets you so far though. You need at least one elite offensive player to compete for the cup IMHO.
Can't win unless someone puts the puck in the net!

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Old
07-12-2013, 11:25 AM
  #934
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Elite scorers are either drafted or obtained via free agency, much more rarely via trade.

When it is via trade, the elite scorer is usually traded for as a prospect.

I know ot sounds like putting all the eggs in the Forsberg basket, but since the draft didn't pan out the way we had hoped, right now that's the best we have got.

Time will tell but as I have said before poile can go over in the corner and crap us a 30 goal scorer, so in the meantime we make ourselves the toughest defensive team in the league and hope for some garb age goals and lucky bounces

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Old
07-12-2013, 11:28 AM
  #935
token grinder
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Is Boston the only team with a Norris/Vezina quality duo on that list?

I think so, but this will be the first year where thier salary will be high together.

My point is, that maybe those who want that high end scorer can't have their cake (weber and rinne) and eat it (PPg forward) too.

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07-12-2013, 11:49 AM
  #936
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Quote:
Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
Is Boston the only team with a Norris/Vezina quality duo on that list?

I think so, but this will be the first year where thier salary will be high together.

My point is, that maybe those who want that high end scorer can't have their cake (weber and rinne) and eat it (PPg forward) too.
Well with their signing of Bergeron this morning that blows your theory. 😉

And we were willing to drop coin on Suter and Parise last summer so we could've had it all. Just saying.

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Old
07-12-2013, 01:13 PM
  #937
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
Well with their signing of Bergeron this morning that blows your theory. ��

And we were willing to drop coin on Suter and Parise last summer so we could've had it all. Just saying.
Show me a season where Bergeron was a point per game player...good luck with it too. There is no team with a PPG player, and at least 14 million tied up in a vezina/norris duo out there.


And saying we were willing and then actually dropping the coin on Suter and Parise 2 totally different things.

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Old
07-12-2013, 01:18 PM
  #938
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Quote:
Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
Is Boston the only team with a Norris/Vezina quality duo on that list?

I think so, but this will be the first year where thier salary will be high together.

My point is, that maybe those who want that high end scorer can't have their cake (weber and rinne) and eat it (PPg forward) too.
There are a lot of teams out there that have 3+ players making 6+m a year. Here is a list of said teams.

Boston (5 players)
San Jose (3 players)
Penguins (3 players)
Minnisota (4 players)
NY Rangers (3 players)
Carolina (4 players)
Washington (3 players)


The difference between these teams and the Predators? None of the above teams pays their 4th line 8m a year...

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Old
07-12-2013, 01:22 PM
  #939
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Originally Posted by Persona5 View Post
There are a lot of teams out there that have 3+ players making 6+m a year. Here is a list of said teams.

Boston (5 players)
San Jose (3 players)
Penguins (3 players)
Minnisota (4 players)
NY Rangers (3 players)
Carolina (4 players)
Washington (3 players)


The difference between these teams and the Predators? None of the above teams pays their 4th line 8m a year...
No, but some of the do scratch $5M and $6M players.

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Old
07-12-2013, 01:41 PM
  #940
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Quote:
Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
Is Boston the only team with a Norris/Vezina quality duo on that list?

I think so, but this will be the first year where thier salary will be high together.

My point is, that maybe those who want that high end scorer can't have their cake (weber and rinne) and eat it (PPg forward) too.
Chicago had two elite defenseman, not one but two!
Plus they had amazing goalie, and oh yeah...
Kane, sharp, toews, hossa, etc.
and now look, they have their cake and are eating it as you say. That is how you win cups. Balance out the scoring and defense.

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07-12-2013, 01:58 PM
  #941
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Seabrook the other elite?

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Old
07-12-2013, 02:15 PM
  #942
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maplepred View Post
Chicago had two elite defenseman, not one but two!
Plus they had amazing goalie, and oh yeah...
Kane, sharp, toews, hossa, etc.
and now look, they have their cake and are eating it as you say. That is how you win cups. Balance out the scoring and defense.
Yet there were years where the Hawks had Belfour, Chelios, Larmer, and Roenick only to get bounced in the first round.

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07-12-2013, 02:21 PM
  #943
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Originally Posted by maplepred View Post
Chicago had two elite defenseman, not one but two!
Plus they had amazing goalie, and oh yeah...
Kane, sharp, toews, hossa, etc.
and now look, they have their cake and are eating it as you say. That is how you win cups. Balance out the scoring and defense.
There are many ways to win a cup. You can be the best team in the league like Chicago, or you can sneak into the 8th seed and ride a hot goalie like LA.

There is no exact science to this. Winning it is hard - which is why it is great. Make the playoffs and let the chips fall where they may.

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Old
07-12-2013, 02:25 PM
  #944
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Originally Posted by Preddownsouth View Post
There are many ways to win a cup. You can be the best team in the league like Chicago, or you can sneak into the 8th seed and ride a hot goalie like LA.

There is no exact science to this. Winning it is hard - which is why it is great. Make the playoffs and let the chips fall where they may.

Agreed,

But I think it helps your chances big time. We have all seen our playoff struggles before and how we don't make it past second round.

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07-12-2013, 02:36 PM
  #945
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Agreed,

But I think it helps your chances big time. We have all seen our playoff struggles before and how we don't make it past second round.
Three years ago many Preds fans were saying the same about the first round.

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Old
07-12-2013, 03:00 PM
  #946
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Chicago had an 11 season streak where they did not get past the 1st round ... missing the playoffs completely 9 times. It ended in 2008.

Chicago earned three top three picks in a four year span ... didn't pick outside of the top 14 for six years ... resulting in Seabrook, Toews, and Kane. The Penguins had 5 straight picks in the top 5 ... four consecutive top 2 ... they missed the playoffs four consecutive times during that span.

Now look at how Preds fans go over the edge with one bad season.

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Old
07-12-2013, 03:49 PM
  #947
token grinder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Persona5 View Post
There are a lot of teams out there that have 3+ players making 6+m a year. Here is a list of said teams.

Boston (5 players)
San Jose (3 players)
Penguins (3 players)
Minnisota (4 players)
NY Rangers (3 players)
Carolina (4 players)
Washington (3 players)


The difference between these teams and the Predators? None of the above teams pays their 4th line 8m a year...
I was not discussing who had the most 6 million dollar players. I was wanting to know who paid for a vezina/norris duo at 14 million and still sign a PPG forward that some think grow on trees.

of those teams abover with their million dollar men, none have that duo. no one has one of each position making that kind of money.

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Old
07-12-2013, 03:57 PM
  #948
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
Chicago had an 11 season streak where they did not get past the 1st round ... missing the playoffs completely 9 times. It ended in 2008.

Chicago earned three top three picks in a four year span ... didn't pick outside of the top 14 for six years ... resulting in Seabrook, Toews, and Kane. The Penguins had 5 straight picks in the top 5 ... four consecutive top 2 ... they missed the playoffs four consecutive times during that span.

Now look at how Preds fans go over the edge with one bad season.
And that is the problem I see with some fans. With wanting to make the playoffs (like pushing for the playoffs last year with all the injuries) no matter how bad the team is gets us 15+ pick in the draft which is harder to get a franchise forward/worthwhile trade piece then it would be picking top 5. Along with pushing for the playoffs two years ago Poile traded his first pick for Paul Gaustad to try and help the playoff push. If instead of pushing every year for the playoffs we kept our picks and were able to restock our system maybe in a few years we would either be able to draft a franchise forward or have the necessary pieces to trade for one. I don't like to watch the Preds lose but you can see what the Hawks and Penguins had to go through to get to where they are. I just wish more people would understand the ups and downs of the league and not bandwagon as much, although im not sure what Shea thinks of a few bad seasons to get the team solid through draft picks.

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07-12-2013, 04:35 PM
  #949
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Trotz was just on 102.5 - didn't catch all of the interview, but he said Forsberg was standing out the most during DC. Also sounded really, 100% sold on the FAs we brought as being the exact guys we needed. I know a coach would never say otherwise, but it sounded truthful when he said they'd made a list of 6-7 guys as targets and went after them, money not being an issue even if they had to overpay to lock them up. Went on to discuss the importance of size in the game and how it's evolving from 5'8 guys to 6'4 bodies. Sounded pretty convinced that we added the pieces we need to get back to winning for the 2013 season.


Last edited by Mercalius: 07-12-2013 at 04:47 PM.
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Old
07-12-2013, 04:41 PM
  #950
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Trotz was just 102.5 - didn't catch all of the interview, but he said Forsberg was standing out the most during DC. Also sounded really, 100% sold on the FAs we brought as being the exact guys we needed. I know a coach would never say otherwise, but it sounded truthful when he said they'd made a list of 6-7 guys as targets and went after them, money not being an issue even if they had to overpay to lock them up. Went on to discuss the importance of size in the game and how it's evolving from 5'8 guys to 6'4 bodies. Sounded pretty convinced that we added the pieces we need to get back to winning for the 2013 season.
Just listened to the Filip Forsberg interview, very personable guy ... liked his canned response "It's up to management & the coaches' whether I make the team out of camp" ... like his attitude. I hope he has a good career, very likable kid.

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