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Habs trade Philippe Lefebvre and a 7th to Florida for George Parros

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Old
07-12-2013, 02:57 AM
  #751
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
My opinion is as irrelevant as yours since we are doing nothing more than posting on a message board.

Hockey still allows fighting. Your stance is at odds with reality.

Do yourself a favor. Research clinically major depression. When you do, you will maybe understand that clinical depression shortens a lot of people's lives, regardless of what their occupation is and regardless of whether they have ever had a fight in their entire life.
Here here Being an enforcer wasn't the sole cause for Boogaard, Rypien and Belak's deaths they were clinically depressed.

Fighting has always been a part of hockey and I love it. No other sport allows this, one of the main reasons why hockey is unique. If fighting wasn't allowed there would be alot more stick swinging dirty plays which are far more dangerous than a little tussle.

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07-12-2013, 06:59 AM
  #752
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Don't be naive. Shots to the head = brain damage.
You're the one being naive if you think there's only one reason for their problems.

Explain to me why guys like Don Cherry, Mike Milbury, Brendan Shanahan, and Paul Holmgren are fine and successful despite being pugilists for even longer than the players you mentioned. These guys took at least two to three times more shots to the head, shouldn't they all be incapable of of coherent thoughts and processes by your logic?

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07-12-2013, 09:37 AM
  #753
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SouthernHab = an american = USA = country with people who love violence = sports with violence = hockey = hockey fights
And I'm Canadian, along with many others, and I love it to. What's the next excuse?

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07-12-2013, 09:40 AM
  #754
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And I'm Canadian, along with many others, and I love it to. What's the next excuse?
There's no excuse. I love fighting.

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07-12-2013, 09:43 AM
  #755
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Don't be naive. Shots to the head = brain damage.
Don't be naive. Sun = cancer

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07-12-2013, 09:52 AM
  #756
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Parros could be really valuable to the team. Our new superhero.

Capologist by day, pugilist by night.

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07-12-2013, 10:08 AM
  #757
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Originally Posted by groovejuice View Post
Don't be naive. Shots to the head = brain damage.
Since there are a lot more concussions due to bodychecks than there are resulting from fights, should hitting be banned from hockey?

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07-12-2013, 10:15 AM
  #758
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
Since there are a lot more concussions due to bodychecks than there are resulting from fights, should hitting be banned from hockey?
Exactly my point.

Plus: Hockey is a fast-paced sport with guys full of testosterone who literally will hit themselves to get free pucks. Incidents WILL happen. Rivalries WILL take place. And with these rivalries, frictions will occur.

I'd rather watch those frictions materialize in two guys fighting on equal ground, rather than a guy taking the knee out, low-bridging, headshot, or once again, my favorite, throwing pucks at an opponent.

Way safer to just settle the score on equal ground and fight.

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07-12-2013, 12:26 PM
  #759
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and not everyone with brain damage kills themselves, I know people who have been addicted to drugs and who have killed themselves neither has played a single game of hockey, unfortunately for you, your views are overly simplistic
Never in any of my posts on this topic did I write in absolutes. Repeated head trauma is a contributing factor to severe brain injuries which are the de facto cause of a plethora of physical and mental problems. This is indisputable.

Those who attempt to suggest that my opinions in any way extend to abolition of body checking are resorting to the most disingenuous of replies. I love a good clean hit as much as anyone here. Just not the ones that target the head.

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07-12-2013, 12:33 PM
  #760
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You are such a drama queen. Concussions will certainly happen in contact sports. The idea is to minimize them. Fighting is not integral to hockey. It is a peripheral adjunct to hockey.
And fighting is going no where. It's a HUGE part of hockey and always will be.

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07-12-2013, 12:49 PM
  #761
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Originally Posted by groovejuice View Post
Those who attempt to suggest that my opinions in any way extend to abolition of body checking are resorting to the most disingenuous of replies. I love a good clean hit as much as anyone here. Just not the ones that target the head.
Hold on here... let's clarify something:
  1. YOU are wanting to get rid of fighting because it's a risk for concussions, therefore leading to possible suicides (YOU named the enforcers, not us)
  2. WE are saying that there are more concussions in hockey due to bodychecks than there are due to fights. WE are suggesting that if YOUR intentions are truthful, perhaps you should be targeting hitting instead?

Basically, your argument is moot, really, due to the fact that you're barking at the wrong tree. If concussions and mental illnesses are the issues, target the major factor(s).

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07-12-2013, 12:57 PM
  #762
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Originally Posted by groovejuice View Post
I understand where you're going but free will doesn't really apply when you are getting directives from your employer.

Is there anyone on this board who thinks that the new penalties regarding checking and head shots are wrong?

They are in place to reduce the ever-growing issue of head injuries and concussions. So we should rightly ban blows to the head by checks but not punches?

Sports and their rulebook evolve over time. Hockey is the same. If fighting can't be made safer it needs to go.
And that's really my point, if the owners make fighting illegal then these debates will have no meaning. (Not just ours but also those of experts)

No, I don't believe anyone on this board is a fan of headshots but fights are a whole different animal. These are (generally) two willing combatants that know the risk but are willing to put their health aside for a time to help their respective team. If there is any way to make it safe (perhaps mandatory mouth guards or something of the sort) then so be it but these are grown men who have looked at the risk and judged that the reward outweighs the risk.

As for evolution of the rulebook, the complete eradication of an aspect of a sport is not necessarily evolution, especially when it has played a fairly large role in the past with the particular sport.

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07-12-2013, 01:01 PM
  #763
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Originally Posted by Saintpatrick View Post
Here here Being an enforcer wasn't the sole cause for Boogaard, Rypien and Belak's deaths they were clinically depressed.

Fighting has always been a part of hockey and I love it. No other sport allows this, one of the main reasons why hockey is unique. If fighting wasn't allowed there would be alot more stick swinging dirty plays which are far more dangerous than a little tussle.


Repeated concussions cause "clinical depression". It affects the brain in many different ways. This is widely known. It seems pretty obvious that the blows to the head caused symptoms that forced them to take ever increasing amount of drugs to overcome and the mix was deadly for their health.

Can't wait for the day staged fights disappear from the league. Nothing is more boring and stupid than that. Lecavalier VS Iginla in the stanley cup finals ? Lindros VS J.Thornton ? Sure, don't take that away from us. But Parros against S.Thornton... boring.

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Old
07-12-2013, 01:19 PM
  #764
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Gino Odjick desn't agree with Laraque: “I love the Mr. Parros addition. George is a winner who stands up for his teammates and he can play.”

Full article...

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07-12-2013, 01:29 PM
  #765
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post


1) Repeated concussions cause "clinical depression". It affects the brain in many different ways. 2) This is widely known. 3) It seems pretty obvious that the blows to the head caused symptoms that forced them to take ever increasing amount of drugs to overcome and the mix was deadly for their health.
1) They CAN cause "clinical depression" but they are only one factor that CAN cause "clinical depression". When will people learn that "correlation does not equal causation"? Just because two things are linked together does not mean they cause each other. Head hits aren't the only thing that can affect the brain in a negative fashion.

2) Unless you miss typed something in the first part, no it doesn't seem that widely known.

3) That is a gigantic leap in logic (or in this case lack of) concerning their personal lives. In the case of Belak and Rypien who officially committed suicide, in Canada almost 3500 people a year commit suicide and most of them are not repeatedly hit in the head. Does that mean that they are not allowed to be "clinically depressed"? Not to mention that both of them had suffered from depression before their hockey careers. In the case of Boogaard, he became a painkiller addict just like thousands of other people in NA, most of which have never been repeatedly hit in the head. A predisposition to addiction is within a person far before they make the conscious decision to become a fighter and get hit in the head.

It may have played a part in the final outcome but there is nothing "Obvious" with the leaps you are attempting to make.

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07-12-2013, 01:32 PM
  #766
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
Gino Odjick desn't agree with Laraque: “I love the Mr. Parros addition. George is a winner who stands up for his teammates and he can play.”

Full article...
Now Gino is a past Habs pugilist I can respect. He wasn't one to ask questions.

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Old
07-12-2013, 01:43 PM
  #767
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Originally Posted by PsychoticHab View Post
1) They CAN cause "clinical depression" but they are only one factor that CAN cause "clinical depression". When will people learn that "correlation does not equal causation"? Just because two things are linked together does not mean they cause each other. Head hits aren't the only thing that can affect the brain in a negative fashion.
Yay another 15 year old who just took a debate class and feels like he's smarter than everyone else.



Quote:
2) Unless you miss typed something in the first part, no it doesn't seem that widely known.
I know it and I have not made a special effort to learn anything about it. It's been said quite a few times. Anyone who has read 1-2 articles about this would know it. That falls into the widely known category. But meh who cares.

Quote:
3) That is a gigantic leap in logic (or in this case lack of) concerning their personal lives. In the case of Belak and Rypien who officially committed suicide, in Canada almost 3500 people a year commit suicide and most of them are not repeatedly hit in the head. Does that mean that they are not allowed to be "clinically depressed"? Not to mention that both of them had suffered from depression before their hockey careers. In the case of Boogaard, he became a painkiller addict just like thousands of other people in NA, most of which have never been repeatedly hit in the head. A predisposition to addiction is within a person far before they make the conscious decision to become a fighter and get hit in the head.

It may have played a part in the final outcome but there is nothing "Obvious" with the leaps you are attempting to make
No it's not a gigantic leap of logic. Team doctors prescribe more pain meds than they should to these enforcers. It's been reported. And no I won't make the effort to educate you on the matter, do your own research.

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Old
07-12-2013, 01:52 PM
  #768
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Now Gino is a past Habs pugilist I can respect. He wasn't one to ask questions.
One of my favorite youtube videos ever:


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07-12-2013, 02:22 PM
  #769
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Here here Being an enforcer wasn't the sole cause for Boogaard, Rypien and Belak's deaths they were clinically depressed.

Fighting has always been a part of hockey and I love it. No other sport allows this, one of the main reasons why hockey is unique. If fighting wasn't allowed there would be alot more stick swinging dirty plays which are far more dangerous than a little tussle.
sigh...once again, please provide evidence that elimination of fighting results in more stick swinging. You will be hard-pressed to find any correlation between the 2. You may love fighting because you don't have to do it.

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07-12-2013, 02:24 PM
  #770
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One of my favorite youtube videos ever:

hilarious and entertaining? yes. But respect? not so much

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07-12-2013, 02:32 PM
  #771
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Yay another 15 year old who just took a debate class and feels like he's smarter than everyone else.



I know it and I have not made a special effort to learn anything about it. It's been said quite a few times. Anyone who has read 1-2 articles about this would know it. That falls into the widely known category. But meh who cares.


No it's not a gigantic leap of logic. Team doctors prescribe more pain meds than they should to these enforcers. It's been reported. And no I won't make the effort to educate you on the matter, do your own research.
I'm not sure what world you live in but in this one, there are virtually no absolutes and this is even more true in the medical world. What affects someone one way does not guarantee the same result with someone else. Also, just because something is "Said many times" doesn't necessarily make it true. Take your own advice and do the research.

"Team Doctors" are not the only doctors to over-prescribe, whether it is painkiller or something else, and the public is exposed to the same opportunity to become an addict as a pro-athlete is. Are the ratios the same? No, but the opportunity is still there for anyone who is looking for it.

As for the "Giant leap of logic", for the last time, you take two points that are related but directly link them together as cause and effect without examining any of the surrounding variables. Any knowledge of the scientific method would show this to be an erroneous way of making conclusions. You can't just look at the variable that defends your point and dismiss the rest.

Also, as for this little gem of yours: (Since it seems to matter to you)

"Yay another 15 year old who just took a debate class and feels like he's smarter than everyone else."

The point you made that against would be linked to my Bachelor's Degree in Psychology. (But whatever)

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07-12-2013, 02:39 PM
  #772
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how is hockey fighting more dangerous than proffesional hitters? No one punches as hard as a boxer or kicks as hard as Mirco on the ice, the punches are not as brutal ?
You are right about the strength of punches (and kicks) but there are other considerations.

In respectable fightsport productions the fighters wear gloves and the surface they stand on is padded; this is far less dangerous than bare-knuckle fighting on ice.

Also in fightsport productions the commission or regulatory body would not allow a fighter to fight if he has health issues eg a recent KO. Emelin, with plates in his face, would not be cleared to fight.

Imagine if a hockey fight went on for ten or even three rounds, and you'll get an idea of the relative danger. IMO the only mitigating factor to hockey fights is that they are relatively brief in duration.

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07-12-2013, 02:53 PM
  #773
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You are right about the strength of punches (and kicks) but there are other considerations.

In respectable fightsport productions the fighters wear gloves and the surface they stand on is padded; this is far less dangerous than bare-knuckle fighting on ice.

Also in fightsport productions the commission or regulatory body would not allow a fighter to fight if he has health issues eg a recent KO. Emelin, with plates in his face, would not be cleared to fight.

Imagine if a hockey fight went on for ten or even three rounds, and you'll get an idea of the relative danger. IMO the only mitigating factor to hockey fights is that they are relatively brief in duration.


I'd be really surprised if there's anything more dangerous than successive punches to an already concussed fighter. For an extended period of time.

There's a reason you can't play a sport after a concussion, in sports like boxing and MMA, they go back at it straight after the concussion. It's the worst thing for the brain. I've spent weeks in a hospital because of similar situations as this. Not good.


Now look at me.... Always arguing about things I don't even know nothing about on the internet with other bozo's that don't know nothing either. I even get angry over it... Concussions

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07-12-2013, 03:05 PM
  #774
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Originally Posted by PsychoticHab View Post
I'm not sure what world you live in but in this one, there are virtually no absolutes and this is even more true in the medical world. What affects someone one way does not guarantee the same result with someone else. Also, just because something is "Said many times" doesn't necessarily make it true. Take your own advice and do the research.

"Team Doctors" are not the only doctors to over-prescribe, whether it is painkiller or something else, and the public is exposed to the same opportunity to become an addict as a pro-athlete is. Are the ratios the same? No, but the opportunity is still there for anyone who is looking for it.

As for the "Giant leap of logic", for the last time, you take two points that are related but directly link them together as cause and effect without examining any of the surrounding variables. Any knowledge of the scientific method would show this to be an erroneous way of making conclusions. You can't just look at the variable that defends your point and dismiss the rest.

Also, as for this little gem of yours: (Since it seems to matter to you)

"Yay another 15 year old who just took a debate class and feels like he's smarter than everyone else."

The point you made that against would be linked to my Bachelor's Degree in Psychology. (But whatever)
Yes I got your point the first ten times you made it. It's not 100% sure that they are related.

I'll concede your point. But all you're doing here is hide your head in the sand. I'm not sure why you're doing it. Is it because you're a huge fan of fighting in hockey ? Or just because you decided to be 100% anal about something someone said on a hockey message board. It's not yet clear to me, but I suspect the latter.

But the person whom I quoted initially excused it by saying they were just clinically depressed. Only thing I wanted to say is that being clinically depressed can be a symptom of brain damage from concussions. It's a common one too. So the initial person I quoted said something pretty ludicrous. You can decide to be anal about my choice of words or get the bigger picture here. I did not realize I had to abide by the rules of the scientific method while posting on a message board, pardon me Mr. Bachelor's degree in psychology.

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07-12-2013, 03:09 PM
  #775
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Yes I got your point the first ten times you made it. It's not 100% sure that they are related.

I'll concede your point. But all you're doing here is hide your head in the sand. I'm not sure why you're doing it. Is it because you're a huge fan of fighting in hockey ? Or just because you decided to be 100% anal about something someone said on a hockey message board. It's not yet clear to me, but I suspect the latter.

But the person whom I quoted initially excused it by saying they were just clinically depressed. Only thing I wanted to say is that being clinically depressed can be a symptom of brain damage from concussions. It's a common one too. So the initial person I quoted said something pretty ludicrous. You can decide to be anal about my choice of words or get the bigger picture here. I did not realize I had to abide by the rules of the scientific method while posting on a message board, pardon me Mr. Bachelor's degree in psychology.
Oh, so that's why I'm always depressed

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