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The Detroit Red Wings Have Me Excited Again!

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Old
07-11-2013, 11:38 AM
  #51
Johnz96
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The grass is always grenner on the other side.
I think the Wings will be even better next year but not because of the free agent signings. Brunner was more productive than Alfredsson (I think Iginla would have been a much better choice that would suit the Wings needs much more) last year with a lot less ice-time and Brunner is improving while Alfredsson is declining and it is debatable whether Weiss is an improvement over Filppula (I think Fil will score more in T.B than Weiss does here). Time will tell.
But I think everybody on the D has potential to improve over last year and they were good last year.
Last year was Kronner's first as the #1 guy and he seemed nervous and hesitant especially at the beginning of the season last year.
Ericsson's first year as a top pair d-man last year and he shoud get better from the experience.
Smith and Dekeyser (having him all year will help) were rookies last year and should be better next year.
Kindl finally got an opportunity to be a regular and should benefit from the experience.
Quincey was still getting used to a new team and I think he might be better as well next year.
All the injuries and flux and D last year created a lot of instability, I think they will all know each other better and be a much more cohesive unit.
Tatar and Nyquist should be better as well although they will be struggling to get ice-time with top units and PP which might stall or stunt their development.
Moving out some of the redundant over abundance of forwards on the team should also be a benefit. Addition by subtraction.

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07-11-2013, 12:06 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era View Post
Guess I am confused how the Swedish national coaches find Franzen and Zetterberg play well together but in 8 plus years Babcock hasn't figured that out or stuck with it when it is going well and he accidentally comes across it.

You can gripe about personnel, but Babcock has certain stubborn tendencies not that most coaches don't, but it's fair to get unnerved by some of them.
I think we were spoiled by Bowman. He would throw everything out there, and is one of the few coaches I've seen able to consistently catch the other team off guard and put them on their heels.

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07-11-2013, 01:59 PM
  #53
Amyklas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnz96 View Post
The grass is always grenner on the other side.
I think the Wings will be even better next year but not because of the free agent signings. Brunner was more productive than Alfredsson (I think Iginla would have been a much better choice that would suit the Wings needs much more) last year with a lot less ice-time and Brunner is improving while Alfredsson is declining and it is debatable whether Weiss is an improvement over Filppula (I think Fil will score more in T.B than Weiss does here). Time will tell.
But I think everybody on the D has potential to improve over last year and they were good last year.
Last year was Kronner's first as the #1 guy and he seemed nervous and hesitant especially at the beginning of the season last year.
Ericsson's first year as a top pair d-man last year and he shoud get better from the experience.
Smith and Dekeyser (having him all year will help) were rookies last year and should be better next year.
Kindl finally got an opportunity to be a regular and should benefit from the experience.
Quincey was still getting used to a new team and I think he might be better as well next year.
All the injuries and flux and D last year created a lot of instability, I think they will all know each other better and be a much more cohesive unit.
Tatar and Nyquist should be better as well although they will be struggling to get ice-time with top units and PP which might stall or stunt their development.
Moving out some of the redundant over abundance of forwards on the team should also be a benefit. Addition by subtraction.
"Choice" implies the Red Wings were on Iggy's list of teams. It appears, by all accounts, they were not. There was no "choice" between the two.

How is it even a debate that Weiss is an upgrade over Flip? Seriously, how? Weiss played 1C and scored against top competition with worse support. Flip couldn't even handle 2C (which is what he'll play in TB), and couldn't score on lesser competition with better support.

Brunner had a top-6 spot and all the ice time he needed...he lost it when he disappeared for half a season.

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07-11-2013, 02:20 PM
  #54
Johnz96
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Originally Posted by Amyklas View Post
"Choice" implies the Red Wings were on Iggy's list of teams. It appears, by all accounts, they were not. There was no "choice" between the two.

How is it even a debate that Weiss is an upgrade over Flip? Seriously, how? Weiss played 1C and scored against top competition with worse support. Flip couldn't even handle 2C (which is what he'll play in TB), and couldn't score on lesser competition with better support.

Brunner had a top-6 spot and all the ice time he needed...he lost it when he disappeared for half a season.
Funny how Brunner and Abdelkader did so much better against greater competition than they did against 'lesser competition'

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07-11-2013, 02:30 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnz96 View Post
Funny how Brunner and Abdelkader did so much better against greater competition than they did against 'lesser competition'
It's actually not. Brunner didn't adapt. And put anyone with Datsyuk and see if they won't improve offensively. What do either of those have to do with Flip and Weiss?

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07-11-2013, 02:36 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amyklas View Post
It's actually not. Brunner didn't adapt. And put anyone with Datsyuk and see if they won't improve offensively. What do either of those have to do with Flip and Weiss?
Players always produce more playing on top lines against tougher competition than they do playing on bottom lines against weaker competition.

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07-11-2013, 02:39 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amyklas View Post
"Choice" implies the Red Wings were on Iggy's list of teams. It appears, by all accounts, they were not. There was no "choice" between the two.

How is it even a debate that Weiss is an upgrade over Flip? Seriously, how? Weiss played 1C and scored against top competition with worse support. Flip couldn't even handle 2C (which is what he'll play in TB), and couldn't score on lesser competition with better support.

Brunner had a top-6 spot and all the ice time he needed...he lost it when he disappeared for half a season.
He lost his top-6 spot for half a season, so he couldn't have lost his spot for dissapearing for half a season. And he played mostly with Zetterbergin the first half, not Datsyuk.
Abby couldn't even muster half a point a game playing with Datsyuk. Much better than what he did before being moved up to his line though.

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07-11-2013, 03:00 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnz96 View Post
Players always produce more playing on top lines against tougher competition than they do playing on bottom lines against weaker competition.
So you're saying, that because Flip couldn't score on the 2nd line and Weiss could score on the 1st line, they are still arguably the same talent level? Weiss was brought in precisely because Flip is not good enough to carry a second line. I'm baffled that people still try to argue this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnz96 View Post
He lost his top-6 spot for half a season, so he couldn't have lost his spot for dissapearing for half a season. And he played mostly with Zetterbergin the first half, not Datsyuk.
Abby couldn't even muster half a point a game playing with Datsyuk. Much better than what he did before being moved up to his line though.
Wait, so he lost his spot for half a season...but it couldn't be from the struggles he suffered? Wow

The "play with Datsyuk" comment was in regards to Abby, not Brunner.

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07-11-2013, 03:16 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Amyklas View Post
So you're saying, that because Flip couldn't score on the 2nd line and Weiss could score on the 1st line, they are still arguably the same talent level? Weiss was brought in precisely because Flip is not good enough to carry a second line. I'm baffled that people still try to argue this.



Wait, so he lost his spot for half a season...but it couldn't be from the struggles he suffered? Wow

The "play with Datsyuk" comment was in regards to Abby, not Brunner.
You said he lost his spot because he struggled for a half a season but he amassed most of his points in the first half of the season and played on the bottom 6 for the last half of the season. So in actually he struggled for a few games and lost his spot and continued to struggle for the half of the season in the bottom 6.

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07-12-2013, 11:39 AM
  #60
LastWordArmy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kronwalled55 View Post
Helm, Andersson, Morrow, and Miller? Maybe Abdelkader if Morrow doesn't PK.
Morrow looked so slow on the Pens.

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07-12-2013, 12:21 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by LastWordArmy View Post
Morrow looked so slow on the Pens.
in the playoffs he had a split kneecap

Morrow vs Aflredsson
Goals 12 vs 10
Assists 13 vs 26
Points 25 vs 26
ES GOALS 10 vs 7
ES POINTS 20 vs 14

Hits 85 vs 28
Giveaways 15 vs 36
Takeaways 11 vs 37
PIM 37 vs 33
Shots 55 vs 101
TOI 654 vs 909
ES TOI 548 vs 694
Points Per 60 2.29 vs 1.71
Points Per 60 ES 2.19 vs 1.21
Goals Per 60 1.10 vs .66
Goals per 60 ES 1.09 vs .60
Ages 34 vs 40

On the surface, Morrow's stats look comparable to Alfredsson's.
Factoring icetime, Morrow, particularly at even strength, is almost TWICE as productive as 5.5M Alfredsson.

What a bogus signing this was.

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07-12-2013, 12:30 PM
  #62
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I'm glad we found our Quincey/Ericsson/Dekeyser up front in Alfredsson. I'm really looking forward to hearing how bad he is and how bad the signing was and how it's other variables and not him when he does have stretches of success. Should be fun.

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Old
07-12-2013, 12:32 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
in the playoffs he had a split kneecap

Morrow vs Aflredsson
Goals 12 vs 10
Assists 13 vs 26
Points 25 vs 26
ES GOALS 10 vs 7
ES POINTS 20 vs 14

Hits 85 vs 28
Giveaways 15 vs 36
Takeaways 11 vs 37
PIM 37 vs 33
Shots 55 vs 101
TOI 654 vs 909
ES TOI 548 vs 694
Points Per 60 2.29 vs 1.71
Points Per 60 ES 2.19 vs 1.21
Goals Per 60 1.10 vs .66
Goals per 60 ES 1.09 vs .60
Ages 34 vs 40

On the surface, Morrow's stats look comparable to Alfredsson's.
Factoring icetime, Morrow, particularly at even strength, is almost TWICE as productive as 5.5M Alfredsson.

What a bogus signing this was.
I know ES is more important but there's nothing wrong with producing on the PP, which is where Alfie has been better. Same with Weiss. So just comparing ES stats without any context is pretty weak.

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07-12-2013, 12:37 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by The Nose View Post
I know ES is more important but there's nothing wrong with producing on the PP, which is where Alfie has been better. Same with Weiss. So just comparing ES stats without any context is pretty weak.
There is nothing wrong at all with producing on the PP.

Nobody says there is.

But you've got to be on the PP to benefit statistically from it.

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07-12-2013, 12:38 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
There is nothing wrong at all with producing on the PP.

Nobody says there is.

But you've got to be on the PP to benefit statistically from it.
ADD-- just trying to compare apples to apples where possible

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07-12-2013, 03:26 PM
  #66
LastWordArmy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
in the playoffs he had a split kneecap

Morrow vs Aflredsson
Goals 12 vs 10
Assists 13 vs 26
Points 25 vs 26
ES GOALS 10 vs 7
ES POINTS 20 vs 14

Hits 85 vs 28
Giveaways 15 vs 36
Takeaways 11 vs 37
PIM 37 vs 33
Shots 55 vs 101
TOI 654 vs 909
ES TOI 548 vs 694
Points Per 60 2.29 vs 1.71
Points Per 60 ES 2.19 vs 1.21
Goals Per 60 1.10 vs .66
Goals per 60 ES 1.09 vs .60
Ages 34 vs 40

On the surface, Morrow's stats look comparable to Alfredsson's.
Factoring icetime, Morrow, particularly at even strength, is almost TWICE as productive as 5.5M Alfredsson.

What a bogus signing this was.

I guess this is fair... but than again...

15 GP for penguins and 14 points
29 GP for Dallas and only 11 points.

Alfie played on a team that had two of its best players missing for most of the season and Morrow got traded to a team that had Iginla on a 3rd line.

You know?

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