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Mats Zuccarello Re-signs (1 year, $1.15M)

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07-12-2013, 04:36 PM
  #176
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Originally Posted by NickyFotiu View Post
Kershaw I respect your posts but you are wasting your time. The guy you are speaking with argued against Zooks all the time last season Before and After we signed him. Every time his arguments fell short based on Zooks play he moved the football and changed his argument. If Zooks scored 75 points playing 14 minutes a game on a 1.5 mill contract he still would not want him in my opinion. His argument might change but it would still be against Zooks.

Its a shame in my opinion. I do root for underdogs. I have a lot of respect for Zooks. Playing against some monsters in the NHL at his size. Never backing down from anyone. Being willing to take less money as a Ranger than playing elsewhere. Coming to a foriegn land to play at a young age and having to prove himself over and over again. Being as humble as can be in interviews. He is a great guy who seems to be well liked by his teammates. I admire the guy.
Yup, there it is right there. If Zuccarello was 4 or 5 inches taller, maybe you'd recognize him as the fringe player that he is.

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07-12-2013, 04:40 PM
  #177
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I think we should be able to agree this team has a lack of top 6 options, and therefore should be willing to give a "fringe" top 6 player a chance on a very low salary deal.

But, the Norwegian media is annoying. Evidently that is more important.

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07-12-2013, 04:47 PM
  #178
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Lol this debate is just getting more idiotic by the hour.
I understand people are divided, but man, the hostility here is incredible.

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07-12-2013, 04:50 PM
  #179
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I think we should be able to agree this team has a lack of top 6 options, and therefore should be willing to give a "fringe" top 6 player a chance on a very low salary deal.

But, the Norwegian media is annoying. Evidently that is more important.
You know what? I agree with you.

Im simply responding to the hyperbole about how Zuccarello changed the entire dynamic of the team when he came back, or how hes this offensive juggernaut that simply doesnt put up big numbers because guys dont finish his chances. Theres an insinuation here that Zuccarello should be some sort of priority.

Rangers management has made it pretty clear that hes very far down the list of priorities.

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07-12-2013, 04:51 PM
  #180
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Lol this debate is just getting more idiotic by the hour.
I understand people are divided, but man, the hostility here is incredible.
Are Norwegians familiar with the phrase "the truth hurts?"

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07-12-2013, 04:55 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Are Norwegians familiar with the phrase "the truth hurts?"
Truth is relative my friend.
Perhaps not in your universe, but it is.

Btw, you bringing my nationality into this shows your bias more than mine. Have a great weekend American (by your smartness i guess you are american, right? Generalizing enough for ya, son?)


Last edited by Hellion: 07-12-2013 at 05:23 PM.
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07-12-2013, 05:06 PM
  #182
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Yup, there it is right there. If Zuccarello was 4 or 5 inches taller, maybe you'd recognize him as the fringe player that he is.
Depends on how we look at the definition of a fringe player. He is not a star player. He also is not a scrub. He is a guy who has shown time and time again that he is able to score .5ppg in the NHL.

I would have no problem saying he was a fringe player based on some definitions (roster spot, salary, experience) but your animosity seem to have little to do with his production as a player. I do not see you bashing all the guys who score less points than Zooks does. Your posts for a year make it seem like you are determined to bash him regardless of how he produces.

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07-12-2013, 05:16 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by NickyFotiu View Post
Depends on how we look at the definition of a fringe player. He is not a star player. He also is not a scrub. He is a guy who has shown time and time again that he is able to score .5ppg in the NHL.

I would have no problem saying he was a fringe player based on some definitions (roster spot, salary, experience) but your animosity seem to have little to do with his production as a player. I do not see you bashing all the guys who score less points than Zooks does. Your posts for a year make it seem like you are determined to bash him regardless of how he produces.
I don't think you can say that a player who hasn't played a full season's worth of games on his career has shown anything time and time again. Good or bad.

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07-12-2013, 05:17 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by NickyFotiu View Post
Depends on how we look at the definition of a fringe player. He is not a star player. He also is not a scrub. He is a guy who has shown time and time again that he is able to score .5ppg in the NHL.

I would have no problem saying he was a fringe player based on some definitions (roster spot, salary, experience) but your animosity seem to have little to do with his production as a player. I do not see you bashing all the guys who score less points than Zooks does. Your posts for a year make it seem like you are determined to bash him regardless of how he produces.
At this pont there is no other word for this guy than a troll.
Guy is probably 5.8 and never made it in high scool because a "midget" stole his spot on the team. Guy has to check into real life. What a tool, bias and blindness to facts are incredible

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07-12-2013, 05:19 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I don't think you can say that a player who hasn't played a full season's worth of games on his career has shown anything time and time again. Good or bad.
But you obviously can, mr half empty. Just call me mr. Half full

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07-12-2013, 05:25 PM
  #186
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But you obviously can, mr half empty. Just call me mr. Half full
Gee, I thought my comment was pretty neutral. He was better last year than he was in his first stint. But I still need to see more.

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07-12-2013, 05:36 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Gee, I thought my comment was pretty neutral. He was better last year than he was in his first stint. But I still need to see more.
Let the ****er play a full season and we can all agree after that, yes?
I just find it interesting that people hold it agians him that he never played a 82 games season. He never had a chance to do so. He has showed nothing but commitment to NYR, he is still trying to sign, and is saying that the 2m dollar pay that Rangerboy/brooks is BS. Give the kid a break, he is has never done anything to show that he does not want to be a part of this team. Guy already let millions of dollars go because he wants to be a Ranger. I dont see what else he has to do. Besides the fact he came in and helped this team into the POs, and was the seconsd best pointman in the POs... Man, this team is not good enough to tell guys like Zucc their not needed.

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07-12-2013, 06:06 PM
  #188
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I wish. Imagine the cap we would free up by waiving Richards?
I think that's it right there. If they bought out Richards I doubt anyone bats an eye at Zuke for 1.7M.

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07-12-2013, 06:27 PM
  #189
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I dont even think calling Zuccarello a fringe NHL'er is a knock. Its incredible hes made it this far considering his size.

I just think its becoming clear that the Rangers seem to think Benoit Pouliot can give the team that same type of production in a bigger body.

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07-12-2013, 06:31 PM
  #190
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You guys blaming a guy giving up millions for this team and thinking a couple of hundred k's will change his commitment... NYR is his dream, he said it, lived it, showed it. What more do you want

What have you given up for this team?

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07-12-2013, 06:35 PM
  #191
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What have you given up for this team?
My sanity?

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07-12-2013, 06:39 PM
  #192
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My sanity?
+ a lot of money

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07-12-2013, 06:43 PM
  #193
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+ a lot of money
Several mill? No.
Its late here in the 3rd world, brb.

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07-12-2013, 07:13 PM
  #194
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it's a business, but you don't let go off your better players to make room for scrubs like Falk and Pouliot. If it indeed is down to the $$$$.

if indeed Sather decides not to re-sign zuccarello, his offseason is a failure considering he picked inferior players over him and decided to retain Richards' albatross contract. Big F.
Kershaw, I'm not going to get into another pissing match in yet another thread. I am not knocking Zucc. I think he adds value, I really do. But I think some of the statements being made here are getting a little out of hand in relation to how much Zucc impacts this team.

To the defense of BRB (I know BRB is getting into a heated argument here but I don't think he meant to get this in depth) and SBOB, is that we don't think Zucc is a bad hockey player. I think the consensus from the devil's advocate camp is that Zucc is still a fringe top 6 player, regardless of any of the x factors being he did not get a real chance, had to battle injuries, had to adjust to the NHL game; whatever. And management in a cap world is trying to squeeze the best deal out of Zucc and his agent. For a fringe top 6 player, I am perfectly ok with this. Zucc filed for arbitration. There has been mutual interest. This is the way some negotiations go. It was the same with Dubinsky and Staal. We ended up getting Staal on a great contract and Dubinsky on a not so great contract.

You make it seem like the rangers don't want him. You're better players list right now does not consists of Zucc. Like I said before his sample size is too small to put him in that category no matter what Sabremetric you want to use for puck possession. Great puck possession does not always lead to offensive production. There are other factors too. This is not just Sather running these negotiations. Gorton is involved too. Gorton has done very well thus far imo. You have to trust them with this. McDonagh was a bigger priority. Stepan IS a bigger priority. Maybe the rangers are more focused on Stepan. Who knows. But this whole discussion is getting blown out of proportion. I think Zucc impacts the offense but I don't think he changes the complete dynamic of it. I just don't see it. I don't see the production yet, or at least not enough of it to just fork over the money he wants.

Kershaw, you're getting the same devil's advocate that you gave in the Kreider discussion. You wanted to explain why Kreider should be viewed in certain ways, well people here are doing the same with Zucc in this debate, especially with contract negotiations going on. I figured you of all people would be understanding of criticism of a player since you had a lot to hand out to Kreider.

And the rangers retaind Richards because there was nothing better in free agency, or at least nothing that wouldn't be just as bad of a contract even if it wasn't for the same cap hit. They are banking on the cap going up next offseason, while still probably buying out richards during a better free agency class (though I will admit I haven't looked yet). It just made sense to give BR another chance imo.

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07-12-2013, 07:22 PM
  #195
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Kershaw, I'm not going to get into another pissing match in yet another thread. I am not knocking Zucc. I think he adds value, I really do. But I think some of the statements being made here are getting a little out of hand in relation to how much Zucc impacts this team.

To the defense of BRB (I know BRB is getting into a heated argument here but I don't think he meant to get this in depth) and SBOB, is that we don't think Zucc is a bad hockey player. I think the consensus from the devil's advocate camp is that Zucc is still a fringe top 6 player, regardless of any of the x factors being he did not get a real chance, had to battle injuries, had to adjust to the NHL game; whatever. And management in a cap world is trying to squeeze the best deal out of Zucc and his agent. For a fringe top 6 player, I am perfectly ok with this. Zucc filed for arbitration. There has been mutual interest. This is the way some negotiations go. It was the same with Dubinsky and Staal. We ended up getting Staal on a great contract and Dubinsky on a not so great contract.

You make it seem like the rangers don't want him. You're better players list right now does not consists of Zucc. Like I said before his sample size is too small to put him in that category no matter what Sabremetric you want to use for puck possession. Great puck possession does not always lead to offensive production. There are other factors too. This is not just Sather running these negotiations. Gorton is involved too. Gorton has done very well thus far imo. You have to trust them with this. McDonagh was a bigger priority. Stepan IS a bigger priority. Maybe the rangers are more focused on Stepan. Who knows. But this whole discussion is getting blown out of proportion. I think Zucc impacts the offense but I don't think he changes the complete dynamic of it. I just don't see it. I don't see the production yet, or at least not enough of it to just fork over the money he wants.

Kershaw, you're getting the same devil's advocate that you gave in the Kreider discussion. You wanted to explain why Kreider should be viewed in certain ways, well people here are doing the same with Zucc in this debate, especially with contract negotiations going on. I figured you of all people would be understanding of criticism of a player since you had a lot to hand out to Kreider.

And the rangers retaind Richards because there was nothing better in free agency, or at least nothing that wouldn't be just as bad of a contract even if it wasn't for the same cap hit. They are banking on the cap going up next offseason, while still probably buying out richards during a better free agency class (though I will admit I haven't looked yet). It just made sense to give BR another chance imo.
Sure McDonagh, Hagelin and Stepan could be higher priorities, I am complete A-OK with that. But all I'm saying is that if the departure of Zuccarello is because of Pouliot and Falk, AKA cap reasons (both 2.25m combined), then I'll be ticked off since they gave away a player who was vital to the team's turnaround last season.

It does not make sense to give Richards another chance considering largely in part of his on-ice play last year. He played like a senior, he was scratched in two important playoff games and overall had a disastrous season. He was also injured by Kaleta early on in the seaso. If he suffers an injury, the Rangers are stuck with his contract for the next 5 years. Richards if his game continues to drop off like a cliff like it has the past few seasons, will be right up there as one of the worst albatross contracts in the league. By no means should Sather specifically get a free pass for this because time in, time out he's proven he can't assemble a roster that leads to overpayment like the Richards contract. They don't need Richards at all, what was the acquisition of Brassard for? IMO that spelled the departure of him and many others thought so too. It just makes little sense financially to keep him around for the quality of player he is.

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07-12-2013, 07:25 PM
  #196
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For the record, I have no reason to be affiliated with Zuccarello since I have no Scandinavian heritage in my bloodlines. I would just like to see the best possible product on the ice and the Rangers if true, may be botching a decision by letting go off one of their better forwards in Zuccarello. It just makes zero sense to let go of him.

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07-12-2013, 07:25 PM
  #197
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Sure McDonagh, Hagelin and Stepan could be higher priorities, I am complete A-OK with that. But all I'm saying is that if the departure of Zuccarello is because of Pouliot and Falk, AKA cap reasons (both 2.25m combined), then I'll be ticked off since they gave away a player who was vital to the team's turnaround last season.

It does not make sense to give Richards another chance considering largely in part of his on-ice play last year. He played like a senior, he was scratched in two important playoff games and overall had a disastrous season. He was also injured by Kaleta early on in the seaso. If he suffers an injury, the Rangers are stuck with his contract for the next 5 years. Richards if his game continues to drop off like a cliff like it has the past few seasons, will be right up there as one of the worst albatross contracts in the league. By no means should Sather specifically get a free pass for this because time in, time out he's proven he can't assemble a roster that leads to overpayment like the Richards contract. They don't need Richards at all, what was the acquisition of Brassard for? IMO that spelled the departure of him and many others thought so too. It just makes little sense financially to keep him around for the quality of player he is.
I still think you overreacting way too much. I can promise you if Zucc isn't back it won't be because of Faulk and Pouliot for one. If the rangers needed to make room they have salaries I'm sure they would move. As of this moment they haven't made moves because there has not been a reason to.

And Richards is coming back no matter what you think about his game so let's see how it plays out.

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07-12-2013, 07:37 PM
  #198
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Yup, there it is right there. If Zuccarello was 4 or 5 inches taller, maybe you'd recognize him as the fringe player that he is.
He would probably be a lot less debatably effective is that were the case...

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07-12-2013, 07:44 PM
  #199
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Yup, there it is right there. If Zuccarello was 4 or 5 inches taller, maybe you'd recognize him as the fringe player that he is.
That's your opinion, bro, it isn't fact, stop presenting it as such. That's been the problem with these boards the past year or so, everyone acts like they're right 100% of the time and hardly can ever get into a civil debate because of the attitude, it's so off putting.

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07-12-2013, 07:53 PM
  #200
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Yup, there it is right there. If Zuccarello was 4 or 5 inches taller, maybe you'd recognize him as the fringe player that he is.
4-5 inches in a big difference . I would love a chara on the back end. Size matters , so yeah unfortunately you take these things into consideration when you put a team on the ice to win the Stanley cup. This isn't a open ice local hockey team. Not everyone gets to play

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