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[EDM/STL] David Perron for Magnus Paajarvi + 2nd '14 | Part 2

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Old
07-12-2013, 06:12 PM
  #451
OiledUp
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Originally Posted by dustrock View Post
@LaGu - I think what Replacement is saying is that often young players on their way to the NHL light up their junior leagues.

Obviously that might not happen in Sweden as much as it does in Canada, but Replacement is saying "Look PRV didn't score 20 goals in any of the junior leagues where the competition should have been less fierce and his talents more obvious".

The thinking here is that the gap between the star players and regular players narrows as you advance in each league.

So he is saying, look, Perron has scored 20 goals in the NHL, which should be the toughest league in the world. PRV couldn't do that playing against inferior players at 15 years old.
Thing is MPS didn't really play against guys his own age. When he was 15 he mainly played against 20 year olds, when he was 14 against 18 year olds. The few times he played against his own age he scored at a GPG pace. Him constantly playing against older players probably was bad for his natural scoring touch but the reason he got to play with the old boys was in mainly because of him scoring at a great pace against his peers.

Clearly Perron has proved to be the better scorer at the NHL level so juniors doesn't really matter but when Magnus broke out in Sweden he was seen as an offense first guy with so so defense so to claim he didn't have offense as a junior is just not true.

Magnus main problem offensively imo is confidence, he used to be creative with the puck and almost try to be a bit too fancy at times before, now he tend to play overly simple. And also his lack of natural finish, which probably can be blamed in part on him constantly moving upwards agewise, he would probably have benefitted from staying one more year in Sweden to become close to a PPG player in the SEL. He also really needs to work on his shot. I still think he can find that offensive touch, he'll most likely never be a big producer but a good/great two way fwd who puts up solid numbers is worth a lot imo.

But hey, water under the bridge, we have the better player right now in Perron. My concern with him is how well another puck hog fits the team. Too many guys in our top 6 wants the puck on their stick as it is. Hopefully he can adapt.

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07-12-2013, 06:15 PM
  #452
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Originally Posted by Verdadero View Post
MSP is exactly the type of player that the Oilers should have been looking to add
Oh HELL no. He's just a smurf in a larger bodysuit. We had way too many of him. He was traded because he was the most expendable smurf.

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07-12-2013, 07:09 PM
  #453
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Originally Posted by Verdadero View Post
MSP is a big, fast, young, skilled 2 way forward who had the potential to significantly out-perform his next contract. We have almost zero of those guys and team's go nowhere without them.

Top 6 was skilled and too small and now is more skilled and smaller - WTF? - they will get killed in their new division by big teams like LAK, SJS who will simply pound that top 6 into ineffectiveness just like the last 10 games of the 2013 season. They will do fine until it get serious then fold like a wet paper bag.

Bottom 6 is arguably worse than last year. Added Gordon which is good but he's an overpay and the rest is junk, hope and dreams. No out-performers at all.

So short-term it's a wash but longterm MSP is exactly the type of player that the Oilers should have been looking to add - not deal for another smaller, skill player.
Dude we traded one player for another, you analyzing it based on how it affects our top six in relation to our bottom six is absolutely bonkers.

We trade a good young player for a better young player.

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07-12-2013, 09:30 PM
  #454
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Originally Posted by aleshemsky83 View Post
Dude we traded one player for another, you analyzing it based on how it affects our top six in relation to our bottom six is absolutely bonkers.

We trade a good young player for a better young player.
We have zero potential contracts that can be considered potential out-performs - well maybe Yak but that's a stretch given his dollars as a #1. Our top 6 is skilled and smaller and our bottom six is junk to be kind with the exception of Gordon who is overpaid. Feel free to be happy but we'll talk again in March when teams with size/skill through the lineup eat the Oilers for breakfast. Playing the Oilers is easy as you just hit them and take away their ice. Perron does nothing to change this and the bottom six is a disaster. People are going to feel really happy about Gordon when he goes a month without scoring playing with guys like Brown, Smyth, Jones etc etc

Oilers top 6 = skill with no size
Oiler bottom 6 = no skill

Not a recipe for success but hey it's blue sky, skittles and unicorns season so enjoy.

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07-12-2013, 09:43 PM
  #455
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sure mps had the hustle but he didnt have the killer instinct that the rest of the guys up there have in oiltown.. great trade for perron, now lets hope st.l doesnt draft the next brett hull with our pick!

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07-12-2013, 09:50 PM
  #456
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Originally Posted by Verdadero View Post
We have zero potential contracts that can be considered potential out-performs - well maybe Yak but that's a stretch given his dollars as a #1. Our top 6 is skilled and smaller and our bottom six is junk to be kind with the exception of Gordon who is overpaid. Feel free to be happy but we'll talk again in March when teams with size/skill through the lineup eat the Oilers for breakfast. Playing the Oilers is easy as you just hit them and take away their ice. Perron does nothing to change this and the bottom six is a disaster. People are going to feel really happy about Gordon when he goes a month without scoring playing with guys like Brown, Smyth, Jones etc etc

Oilers top 6 = skill with no size
Oiler bottom 6 = no skill

Not a recipe for success but hey it's blue sky, skittles and unicorns season so enjoy.
Pajaarvi was played regularly with Gagner and Yakupov, the trade has such a minuscule effect on the bottom six its not worth even mentioning, Pajaarvi would have played in the top six this year anyways since his only competition was Smyth. The bottom six talk is insanely irrelevant in terms of this trade, the trade was done to add a scoring left wing and that's what it accomplished, we did not get softer of lose depth in the bottom six because Pajaarvi wasn't a bottom six player or hard to play against.

The bottom line is our 3rd and 4th line still suck, but we're still better


Last edited by aleshemsky83: 07-12-2013 at 09:55 PM.
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07-12-2013, 10:27 PM
  #457
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We have zero potential contracts that can be considered potential out-performs - well maybe Yak but that's a stretch given his dollars as a #1.
After five years of watching Katz cheap out, you can bet I'm not too concerned about whether or not he can get talent on a bargain. As long as we aren't bumping up against the cap, and its going to be rising, who cares? Besides, if the Oilers want some "value" deals, the best way to do that is to maybe make some decent draft picks besides your no-brainer first overalls.

Quote:
Our top 6 is skilled and smaller and our bottom six is junk to be kind with the exception of Gordon who is overpaid.
You make a decent point but overstate the situation somewhat imo. I think its a bit of a stretch to call all the players who have a chance to draw into the bottom six this coming season "junk".

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Feel free to be happy but we'll talk again in March when teams with size/skill through the lineup eat the Oilers for breakfast.
You mean teams with "junk" like Colin Fraser, Tom Sestito, Chris Higgins, David Jones and Tim Jackman in their bottom six? I'll ask again ... did you expect MacT to fill all his roster holes in three months? Decent bottom six guys can be picked up as needed during the course of the season.

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Playing the Oilers is easy as you just hit them and take away their ice..
No argument on that. Up to coach Eakins to develop a gameplan that utilizes the strengths of the roster. Are you suggesting he will be unable to do that?

Quote:
Perron does nothing to change this.
Perron scores more, hits more and plays a better all round game than MPS. He helps. I'm sorry that you don't want to recognize this.

Quote:
and the bottom six is a disaster. People are going to feel really happy about Gordon when he goes a month without scoring playing with guys like Brown, Smyth, Jones etc etc.
Again with the "disaster" ..... Why not wait to see if maybe a guy like Jones can find some chemistry with Gordon? How many goals do you think MPS would get next year on the Oilers if he was relegated to bottom six duties? The answer is not many.

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Not a recipe for success but hey it's blue sky, skittles and unicorns season so enjoy.
So sorry that you feel this way after two weeks on the board.

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07-12-2013, 10:46 PM
  #458
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Originally Posted by Verdadero View Post
Oilers top 6 = skill with no size
Oiler bottom 6 = no skill

Not a recipe for success but hey it's blue sky, skittles and unicorns season so enjoy.
It's not a recipe for success if we're trying to play Kings/Blues style hockey, but that's not the style we're incorporating. Detroit has had few problems the past 5 years despite icing a smaller top 6. What they do have working in their favour is their smaller stars (Z, Dats) play with a consistent grit/compete level, a consistency we haven't seen as much of from our guys. Could part of that be the learning curve a 19-22 year old might face in learning to be a pro? Of course. Does it appear we have the right coach to get this consistency out of them? I think so. In this trade, did we acquire a player who has shown a greater level of grit/compete/consistency for one who did not? Without question.

Maybe this isn't the season to break out the skittles and unicorns, but I don't know why your forecast is storm clouds, AIDS and dead babies.

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07-12-2013, 11:03 PM
  #459
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Honestly taking a further look at the Blues roster, MPS is at best the 9th best forward on that team and that's not even including Rattie and Jaskin who both look like young studs.

Has to be another move coming in St. Louis or magpie is in trouble.

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07-12-2013, 11:16 PM
  #460
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Perron scores more, hits more and plays a better all round game than MPS. He helps. I'm sorry that you don't want to recognize this.

===============

Perron doesn't hit. Perron is a dangler, not a hitter

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07-12-2013, 11:24 PM
  #461
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Originally Posted by Mike Liut View Post
Perron scores more, hits more and plays a better all round game than MPS. He helps. I'm sorry that you don't want to recognize this.

===============

Perron doesn't hit. Perron is a dangler, not a hitter
Hits more. Meaning he registered double the hits.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OilerFan4Life View Post
Honestly taking a further look at the Blues roster, MPS is at best the 9th best forward on that team and that's not even including Rattie and Jaskin who both look like young studs.

Has to be another move coming in St. Louis or magpie is in trouble.
I dont think so, blues have had 9 really good forwards for a number of years

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07-12-2013, 11:51 PM
  #462
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Originally Posted by Mike Liut View Post
Perron scores more, hits more and plays a better all round game than MPS. He helps. I'm sorry that you don't want to recognize this.

===============

Perron doesn't hit. Perron is a dangler, not a hitter
48 hits compared to like 5 by Paajarvi, which were most probably accidental shoulder brushes as he was turning, followed by an apology.

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07-13-2013, 12:03 AM
  #463
Joey Moss
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It really sounds like Perron is a lot like Burrows with more skill.

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07-13-2013, 12:12 AM
  #464
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This trade is a very good one for the Oilers. I laugh at those like Terry Jones who think it isn't merely because Perron isn't the powerforward that everyone was hoping we would land. A trade doesn't have to be a home run to be a great move, and by all accounts, Perron is better than Paajarvi in just about everything except skating and age. The move also has huge potential to blossom into a home run. Our top-6 is now constructed such that we have two playmaking centers flanked on both sides by absolute snipers. It's the perfect storm for both the playmakers and the snipers to make their hay, and assuming that the team's skill is enough to make up for physical imbalances, it could be one of the best top-6es in the league.

That being said, it would be nice to find a way to add some size to the lineup. Until that happens though, I'm more than happy to upgrade it in other ways.

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07-13-2013, 12:17 AM
  #465
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Would love to see Perron end up with more points than any Blues player next year , would be a nice troll job.

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07-13-2013, 12:40 AM
  #466
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It really sounds like Perron is a lot like Burrows with more skill.
We have to remember that Burrows is already the 25-30G 60P forward that we hope Perron can become. Even playing with the Sedins, you don't put up that kind of numbers without a considerable amount of skill.

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07-13-2013, 01:38 AM
  #467
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Originally Posted by B A T M A N View Post
48 hits compared to like 5 by Paajarvi, which were most probably accidental shoulder brushes as he was turning, followed by an apology.
That made me laugh. Thanks

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07-13-2013, 08:19 AM
  #468
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We have to remember that Burrows is already the 25-30G 60P forward that we hope Perron can become. Even playing with the Sedins, you don't put up that kind of numbers without a considerable amount of skill.
Depends. Will Perron be playing with RNH and Hall/Ebs?

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07-13-2013, 08:32 AM
  #469
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Depends. Will Perron be playing with RNH and Hall/Ebs?
I think it will be Nuge and Ebs. Hall and Yak worked good together last year, Ebs and Nuge have good chemistry together as well. Plus Perron going to the net will create space for those two. Good complimentary styles IMO.

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07-13-2013, 08:42 AM
  #470
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Originally Posted by Joey Moss View Post
It really sounds like Perron is a lot like Burrows with more skill.
Ah so I'm not the only one that sees the Burrows comparison. Although I don't know if Perron is a lot more skilled, his hands are better for sure but overall I don't expect him to be much more productive offensively than Burrows.

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07-13-2013, 09:52 AM
  #471
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I think it will be Nuge and Ebs. Hall and Yak worked good together last year, Ebs and Nuge have good chemistry together as well. Plus Perron going to the net will create space for those two. Good complimentary styles IMO.
Add to that those combinations utilize the two best puck possession drivers in Hall and RNH.

As long as Perron gels, and there is no reason to think we won't, our top 6 is pretty much set. (And yes, I firmly believe there is a spot for Gagner in that top 6)

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07-13-2013, 09:56 AM
  #472
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We have zero potential contracts that can be considered potential out-performs - well maybe Yak but that's a stretch given his dollars as a #1. Our top 6 is skilled and smaller and our bottom six is junk to be kind with the exception of Gordon who is overpaid. Feel free to be happy but we'll talk again in March when teams with size/skill through the lineup eat the Oilers for breakfast. Playing the Oilers is easy as you just hit them and take away their ice. Perron does nothing to change this and the bottom six is a disaster. People are going to feel really happy about Gordon when he goes a month without scoring playing with guys like Brown, Smyth, Jones etc etc

Oilers top 6 = skill with no size
Oiler bottom 6 = no skill

Not a recipe for success but hey it's blue sky, skittles and unicorns season so enjoy.
Yep, blue sky, skittles and unicorns...


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07-13-2013, 11:23 AM
  #473
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Originally Posted by B A T M A N View Post
48 hits compared to like 5 by Paajarvi, which were most probably accidental shoulder brushes as he was turning, followed by an apology.
Why throw the player under the bus? I thought he was engaging a lot more this season than he did in the past. He's going to take a while to get comfortable but I definitely saw strides this season.

Paajarvi had the exact same amount of hits as Hall in three less games FYI. Where are all the people bashing Hall? Oh right, he's still an Oiler. Pathetic.

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07-13-2013, 11:25 AM
  #474
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Originally Posted by B A T M A N View Post
48 hits compared to like 5 by Paajarvi, which were most probably accidental shoulder brushes as he was turning, followed by an apology.

Perron's aren't really hits either. Nothing like Backes, Oshie, Steen or Sobotka. Perron has great skill, but he's not physical at all. Andy McDonald was the only softer Blues players. Perron needs to play with bigger, stronger guys to create space for him. You guys aren't going to fair well against big, physical, strong forchecking teams. But, Perron will amaze you with his hands and skill. He's a great kid too with a great attitude.


Last edited by Mike Liut: 07-13-2013 at 11:58 AM.
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07-13-2013, 11:34 AM
  #475
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Originally Posted by SephF View Post
Why throw the player under the bus? I thought he was engaging a lot more this season than he did in the past. He's going to take a while to get comfortable but I definitely saw strides this season.

Paajarvi had the exact same amount of hits as Hall in three less games FYI. Where are all the people bashing Hall? Oh right, he's still an Oiler. Pathetic.
Posters are simply disproving the asinine assertion that Paajarvj is a big-bodied power forward that the Oilers need more of. No one is all-of-a-sudden throwing him under the bus. Relax.


Last edited by Psycho Dad: 07-13-2013 at 11:48 AM.
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