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Old
07-07-2013, 11:21 PM
  #1
The Zetterberg Era
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What is the Punishment?

The CBA is a pretty meaty document and I haven't had the time to sit down and read the thing, also doesn't make for the most fun reading. But something is becoming pretty clear when looking at capgeek. Some of these teams us included are going to be hard pressed to actually meet the cap. With the inability to bury players and the distinct possibility that those that are pushed onto waivers might go unclaimed, what is the leagues actual plan for punishing teams that are over the cap?

We hold the ability to LTIR Sammy and Bert maybe but what happens if they fight it? This is becoming pretty concerning when you look at it. We need to get the RFA's under contract. Then waive some guys, but if they go unclaimed we will be hard pressed to be cap compliant depending on those RFA deals.

Guess it will matter more when we see what Smith, Nyquist and Andersson come in at, but curious if anyone knows the response or can point towards the appropriate punishment

Quote:
Nevertheless, in order to ensure that Clubs may have sufficient
time and flexibility to plan their rosters during the off-season, the
Upper Limit shall be temporarily raised by ten (10) percent to
permit Clubs additional flexibility with their Averaged Club
Salaries during the period from July 1 until and including the last
day of Training Camp. On the day following the last day of
Training Camp, the Upper Limit shall again be lowered to the level
as calculated in Section 50.5(b), and all Clubs must once again be
in compliance with the Upper Limit from the day following the last
day of Training Camp until and including June 30
On page 281

http://cdn.agilitycms.com/nhlpacom/P...A_2013_CBA.pdf

But they don't tell you where I can find it, what they are going to do if you cannot accomplish it because in the new CBA world you of course cannot bury money. What is their plan, you cannot dress certain players like the Devils did years back? I just don't understand the out here and I know that is the point of a hard cap, but what exactly are they going to do to one of these teams if they are over the number? Take it out of the next year, dock a first round pick, fine them with something a guy like Ilitch might laugh at?

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07-07-2013, 11:32 PM
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DatsyukToZetterberg
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IIRC you can bury 900k of any contract in the AHL so that gives us at least another 2.5M in cap space to work with.

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07-07-2013, 11:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DatsyukToZetterberg View Post
IIRC you can bury 900k of any contract in the AHL so that gives us at least another 2.5M in cap space to work with.
Which should get it done pending the RFA guys, I am just curious what they do. I think they would match both Nyquist and Smith getting an offer, doubt people would offer more than 3.2 and expose a first round pick. But we could match both staying in the 10% threshold. However then what?

I have thought all along if pushed they just LTIR Sammy and Bert, should clear the space, but this could get interesting.

For instance cover 500K of Tootoo instead of hitting the full 900k protected then full million of damage if he isn't claimed off waivers might be something we seriously have to look at. Just have gotten more concerned, especially since we have indications Sammy isn't going to play ball with how he fought the compliance issue.

Waiving Sammy if he goes unclaimed leaves 2.1 million still on the cap.

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07-07-2013, 11:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era View Post
Which should get it done pending the RFA guys, I am just curious what they do. I think they would match both Nyquist and Smith getting an offer, doubt people would offer more than 3.2 and expose a first round pick. But we could match both staying in the 10% threshold. However then what?

I have thought all along if pushed they just LTIR Sammy and Bert, should clear the space, but this could get interesting.

For instance cover 500K of Tootoo instead of hitting the full 900k protected then full million of damage if he isn't claimed off waivers might be something we seriously have to look at. Just have gotten more concerned, especially since we have indications Sammy isn't going to play ball with how he fought the compliance issue.

Waiving Sammy if he goes unclaimed leaves 2.1 million still on the cap.
Oh I hear you. We will have close to 0 wiggle room this year but I think we can find a tacker for Tootoo, either for free or a conditional pick. Hopefully the Wings find a way to **** over Sammy, some how some way.

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07-08-2013, 12:10 AM
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I thought if you waived a player and he goes unclaimed and you send him to the minors, in order to not have the cap hit effect you, you must release him and pay him his full contract to void the cap hit?

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07-08-2013, 12:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Konnan511 View Post
I thought if you waived a player and he goes unclaimed and you send him to the minors, in order to not have the cap hit effect you, you must release him and pay him his full contract to void the cap hit?
They got rid of that system. You could use compliance buyouts but we are through that window and it doesn't open up again until next summer.

Still not entirely clear on the 900K thing, but most people seem to assume you get that regardless, not how I initially took the reporting of it on the CBA. But every dollar over that counts on your cap.

So for instance if that is the case Eaves still counts for 300K even if he clears waivers. Emmerton costs us nothing, Lashoff nothing. You don't clear much space sending them either. That is a big part of the problem.

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07-08-2013, 12:37 AM
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Anyone know what the penalty is? I'm actually curious too.

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07-08-2013, 12:41 AM
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DeKeyser would be a panic mode option. ELC and waiver exempt, $1.35M savings.

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07-08-2013, 12:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe89 View Post
DeKeyser would be a panic mode option. ELC and waiver exempt, $1.35M savings.
Wonder how long we'd be able to roll with 6 dmen.

I'd have to assume that the punishment would either be a) loss of draft pick, I think it's be a 2nd or 3rd, or b) cap penalty the following season. I don't believe there are any punishments that take away 1st(s) accept for offer sheets or league determined things.

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07-08-2013, 01:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe89 View Post
DeKeyser would be a panic mode option. ELC and waiver exempt, $1.35M savings.
$850,000 of his hit is bonus though

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07-08-2013, 01:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricky0034 View Post
$850,000 of his hit is bonus though
Still his cap hit doesn't count because he is on a two-way. Don't like this deal but they are right that it hides the salary. The positive being DeKeyser still gets 850K, part of why his contract was structured that way if you wanted to get him.

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07-08-2013, 01:59 AM
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Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era View Post
Still his cap hit doesn't count because he is on a two-way. Don't like this deal but they are right that it hides the salary. The positive being DeKeyser still gets 850K, part of why his contract was structured that way if you wanted to get him.
what I meant was the 850k doesn't matter anyways because you can go over the cap with bonuses

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07-09-2013, 12:11 AM
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Anyone else wish that the cap was just 5M more? I think it would be reasonable.

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07-09-2013, 12:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricky0034 View Post
$850,000 of his hit is bonus though
Only $425k of his hit is bonus. 925k+425k for both seasons.

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07-09-2013, 12:35 AM
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The redwings need to get rid of Samullssen, Bertuzzi's contract is over next season. Ericsson's contract is to high and its up next year.

-That right there is a bit over 7 million dollars.

-If they plan on re-signing Ericsson and Bertuzzi. They will have to sign for low contracts.

-In my opinion Ericsson doesn't deserve over 1.5 million. If he doesn't accept the wings offer they will let him go. They have better young players in the system.

-Now for Bertuzzi, If he plans on retiring thats a different story. But if he wants to stay he will have to sign a very low contract.

-Daniel Alfie. Contract is over next season as well.

-So next year they will have a lot of money. But they have to re-sign the right players for the right amount.

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07-09-2013, 12:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe89 View Post
Only $425k of his hit is bonus. 925k+425k for both seasons.
capgeek says 850 though?


Last edited by Bench: 07-09-2013 at 02:58 AM. Reason: Use your words.
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07-09-2013, 12:38 AM
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Your hatred of Ericsson makes absolutely no sense, might have three years ago but not anymore. He is getting a raise, I hope they keep it within some reasonable constraints but probably in the 3.75 to 4.25 range. He is starting to become one of the better stay at home D-man, easily our best. He is likely to make the Swedish Olympic roster and he and Kronwall were a solid top pairing. Did a number on both Toews and Getzlaf in the playoffs.

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07-09-2013, 12:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricky0034 View Post
capgeek says 850 though?
His total bonuses are 850k, they just happen to be stacked for this season only. But like total salary, total bonuses also spread out to an average hit.

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07-09-2013, 01:09 AM
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Originally Posted by ricky0034 View Post
capgeek says 850 though?
Jonathan Ericsson, Could be on the top 20 worst defensemen in the NHL. Yes he has gotten a bit better with puck handling, and coverage in front of the net. But his skating ability is terrible. I have never seen an NHL players ankles bend and falls more then Ericsson. When he skates backwards he falls... And that leaves a 2 on 1. If he wants another contract that high, he will have to work on his skating a lot more.


Last edited by Bench: 07-09-2013 at 02:59 AM.
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07-09-2013, 01:37 AM
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Originally Posted by GrindNMuck View Post
Jonathan Ericsson, Could be on the top 20 worst defensemen in the NHL. Yes he has gotten a bit better with puck handling, and coverage in front of the net. But his skating ability is terrible. I have never seen an NHL players ankles bend and falls more then Ericsson. When he skates backwards he falls... And that leaves a 2 on 1. If he wants another contract that high, he will have to work on his skating a lot more.
Completely disagree, I can name 20 worse D-man in our division last year. Considering that is out of 30 or 40 guys depending on whether you want to include callups, that is easy enough to refute.


Last edited by Bench: 07-09-2013 at 03:00 AM.
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07-09-2013, 03:07 AM
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Ericsson logged top 2 minutes on one of the strongest defenses, statistically, in the league. That stingy play continued into the playoffs.

Howard had a fantastic year, but Ericsson was a big role in our stingy defense. Kronwall also picked up his defensive play significantly as the season progressed, particularly when anchored to Ericsson. That's the sign of a good defensive D in my book.

Ericsson, by my estimation, is in the same ballpark as guys like Willie Mitchell. Who happens to make $3.5 million, so that's your guide.

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07-09-2013, 03:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Bench View Post
Ericsson logged top 2 minutes on one of the strongest defenses, statistically, in the league. That stingy play continued into the playoffs.

Howard had a fantastic year, but Ericsson was a big role in our stingy defense. Kronwall also picked up his defensive play significantly as the season progressed, particularly when anchored to Ericsson. That's the sign of a good defensive D in my book.

Ericsson, by my estimation, is in the same ballpark as guys like Willie Mitchell. Who happens to make $3.5 million, so that's your guide.
really important to the PK too

led the team in SH TOI/G in both the regular season and the Playoffs

he even tied for the team lead among defensemen with Kronwall with his 13 even strength points in the regular season and was 2nd only to Smith with his 3 in the Playoffs

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07-09-2013, 03:35 AM
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Right on. Needless to say, I'm really happy Ericsson found his groove. I was such a fan when he entered the league, then it got kind of rocky, but he seems to have found his game nicely. It wasn't even an up and down year for him, he seemed really steady throughout, which is pretty typical of defensive defenders.

Does Ericsson's career end up looking like Mattias Norstrom?

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07-12-2013, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era View Post
Your hatred of Ericsson makes absolutely no sense, might have three years ago but not anymore. He is getting a raise, I hope they keep it within some reasonable constraints but probably in the 3.75 to 4.25 range. He is starting to become one of the better stay at home D-man, easily our best. He is likely to make the Swedish Olympic roster and he and Kronwall were a solid top pairing. Did a number on both Toews and Getzlaf in the playoffs.
This. All of it. Ericsson is *not* a piece of this roster I'm worried about or have any interest in moving. It's not like the organization didn't have to wait a LONG time for him to finishing baking; now you want to move him right after his 2nd good season?

Sometimes I have trouble understanding the hate on Smith, sometimes I think people only remember Kyle Quincey's mistakes but if you're still hating on Ericsson all I can say is "I'm sorry you spent the last two seasons someplace without a television".

TZE is right.

Edit: He was incredible vs Chicago too.

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07-12-2013, 08:28 PM
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Ericsson is worth 4 million a season. He isn't a dominant player, but he makes other players better and is a great fit with Kronwall. On most teams he's a #2-4 and their lead PKer.

A couple years ago he was #6, but has improved vastly. He's under payed right now, as he is easily ahead of Quincey, who is payed more.

*As for the penalty, I don't think there is one, it's more like the NFL, which is a hard cap, you simply can't go over it; the league will simply veto any move that puts a team over the cap, unless that team has a LTIR exception. A soft cap, like in the NBA, means it is possible to go over the cap, but going over it puts the team in the luxury tax (see Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_salary_cap#Luxury_tax).


Last edited by Wolverine Wings: 07-12-2013 at 08:35 PM. Reason: *on topic
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