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Mats Zuccarello Re-signs (1 year, $1.15M)

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Old
07-12-2013, 09:00 PM
  #201
Sticky Fingers
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Gee, I thought my comment was pretty neutral. He was better last year than he was in his first stint. But I still need to see more.
We all want to. But not all wanna give him the opportunity !

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07-12-2013, 09:03 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by Sticky Fingers View Post
We all want to. But not all wanna give him the opportunity !
Well he will be a ranger next season because we cannot walk away from a ruling under 3.5 M

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07-12-2013, 09:57 PM
  #203
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Originally Posted by Sticky Fingers View Post
We all want to. But not all wanna give him the opportunity !
I don't think that's the case at all. I think some are reacting to some posters extrapolating Zuccarellos career stats over 82 and having concerns about his size and ability to hold up over the wear and tear of an 82 game season. Because he's be a .5 PPG player on his career doesn't mean he can sustain that pace over 82 games. To me it's "show me". And I don't think that's unfair. Or, more simplistically,being a hater or mr half empty. Painful as it may be for his vocal supporters here to accept, he is still unproven over a full season. I have concerns. But I'd rather be proven wrong than say "I told you so."

Show me and give me results. Don't give me hyperbole.

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07-12-2013, 10:08 PM
  #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I don't think that's the case at all. I think some are reacting to some posters extrapolating Zuccarellos career stats over 82 and having concerns about his size and ability to hold up over the wear and tear of an 82 game season. Because he's be a .5 PPG player on his career doesn't mean he can sustain that pace over 82 games. To me it's "show me". And I don't think that's unfair. Or, more simplistically,being a hater or mr half empty. Painful as it may be for his vocal supporters here to accept, he is still unproven over a full season. I have concerns. But I'd rather be proven wrong than say "I told you so."

Show me and give me results. Don't give me hyperbole.
My arguement is that hes shown enough to get that chance. Hes worth 1.5 for next season.

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07-12-2013, 10:13 PM
  #205
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My arguement is that hes shown enough to get that chance. Hes worth 1.5 for next season.
That's never been my argument. I do have issues with people who want to say the he's a lock for 40-50 points based on passed results. And the lowering of the bar saying that the PP looked better. A better PP shows by scoring goals.

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07-12-2013, 10:24 PM
  #206
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4-5 inches in a big difference . I would love a chara on the back end. Size matters , so yeah unfortunately you take these things into consideration when you put a team on the ice to win the Stanley cup. This isn't a open ice local hockey team. Not everyone gets to play
Funny, I think the issue is theres too much debate about things that really shouldnt be debatable. Things that we should move on from and have more important conversations like roster construction and where, if anywhere, Zuccarello fits.

Zuccarello being a fringe top 6 forward at the NHL level to this point is debatable? Really? I thought I was being kind.

Edit: I meant to quote our esteemed moderator who, once he lives a few more years, will probably be able to look at this situation a bit more objectively.


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Old
07-12-2013, 10:25 PM
  #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
That's never been my argument. I do have issues with people who want to say the he's a lock for 40-50 points based on passed results. And the lowering of the bar saying that the PP looked better. A better PP shows by scoring goals.
Hes no lock, but the improvement he showed last year warrants him a contract.

Not to mention if he makes 1.5 hes easily tradeable so this whole debate about signing him is utterly absurd to me.

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07-12-2013, 10:29 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by Sticky Fingers View Post
We all want to. But not all wanna give him the opportunity !
Mats Zuccarello is an unproven player. I don't want to give him anything. He's gotta earn it.

That being said, he's at least earned a contract. Zuccarello not being signed right now is simply a matter of him being the less important of 2 players needing to be signed with limited cap space. He's going to get a deal. The Rangers just want to make sure they have the payroll. Notice that Mashinter isn't signed yet either.

If he had agreed to a contract last week, it would be Falk in this position.

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07-12-2013, 10:39 PM
  #209
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Mats Zuccarello is an unproven player. I don't want to give him anything. He's gotta earn it.

That being said, he's at least earned a contract. Zuccarello not being signed right now is simply a matter of him being the less important of 2 players needing to be signed with limited cap space. He's going to get a deal. The Rangers just want to make sure they have the payroll. Notice that Mashinter isn't signed yet either.

If he had agreed to a contract last week, it would be Falk in this position.
I absolutely agree that, in a vacuum, Zuccarello deserves a deal worth about 1.75M per. Unfortunately, Sather's roster management makes that prospect much murkier.

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07-13-2013, 12:03 AM
  #210
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The NHL isn't the only professional league in North America with a salary cap. The NFL and NBA do just fine with a salary cap.
I don't think mentioning the NBA with a cap is really fair since their cap rules are pathetic. They have a soft cap, which allows big-market teams to go over the cap as long as they have the money to pay the 'penalty'

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07-13-2013, 12:47 AM
  #211
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Mats Zuccarello is an unproven player. I don't want to give him anything. He's gotta earn it.
He is no less proven than Hagelin who has not played an entire NHL season yet either but we just gave him 2 years.

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07-13-2013, 03:31 AM
  #212
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I just think its becoming clear that the Rangers seem to think Benoit Pouliot can give the team that same type of production in a bigger body.

I don't think that the fact that the Rangers having a set value for Zucc, and Zucc asking too much (since 2 mill really is too much), thus enabling the ol' number switcharoo we know in modern times as contract negotiations, in any way shape or form indicate that Benoit Pouliot is a bigger priority to this team.

Or are we assuming that Falk is a more important piece than Stephan now ?

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07-13-2013, 03:34 AM
  #213
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Things that we should move on from and have more important conversations like roster construction and where, if anywhere, Zuccarello fits.
A bit of a sidestep but I'd really like to have a debate about why Chris Kreider is a lock for 1st line minutes, seeing as he has done absolutely nothing to warrant the confidence other than being big and young. In a entirely different thread, of course

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07-13-2013, 04:08 AM
  #214
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Originally Posted by NYR2007 View Post
Well he will be a ranger next season because we cannot walk away from a ruling under 3.5 M
I thought it was only with team initiated arbitration that you can't walk away from a ruling

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07-13-2013, 04:14 AM
  #215
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
He is no less proven than Hagelin who has not played an entire NHL season yet either but we just gave him 2 years.
Hagelin played in 64 games his rookie season after being called up and all 48 games last season in the strike shortened season.Zuc hasn't done either yet in any single season.

In parts of 3 seasons,Zuc has played a total of 67 games

I don't see how anyone can honestly claim Zuc is worth more than Hagelin at this point

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07-13-2013, 05:30 AM
  #216
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Originally Posted by mrmovies779 View Post
Hagelin played in 64 games his rookie season after being called up and all 48 games last season in the strike shortened season.Zuc hasn't done either yet in any single season.

In parts of 3 seasons,Zuc has played a total of 67 games

I don't see how anyone can honestly claim Zuc is worth more than Hagelin at this point

I dont expect him to get more than Hagelin. But its a fair comparison. Alot of people in here think that Hagelins 2,25 mill 3 year contract is a steal but they dont think Zucc is worth more than 1.3 mill. Hagelin is a fast scater and a great forechecker. But remember what Torts said "he s*cked in PP". Remember Hagelin went 37 straight games in NHL without an assist or goal ?

Saether managed to get Zucc for a contract of 700.000 US$ annual short time this spring. If Saether likes Zucc that much its time he pays him decent salary (1.6-1.7 mill). Zucc said himself that he is not worth 2 mill US yet and that is far away from his demands.

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07-13-2013, 05:41 AM
  #217
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Originally Posted by KenGuru View Post
I dont expect him to get more than Hagelin. But its a fair comparison. Alot of people in here think that Hagelins 2,25 mill 3 year contract is a steal but they dont think Zucc is worth more than 1.3 mill. Hagelin is a fast scater and a great forechecker. But remember what Torts said "he s*cked in PP". Remember Hagelin went 37 straight games in NHL without an assist or goal ?

Saether managed to get Zucc for a contract of 700.000 US$ annual short time this spring. If Saether likes Zucc that much its time he pays him decent salary (1.6-1.7 mill). Zucc said himself that he is not worth 2 mill US yet and that is far away from his demands.
It was without a goal, not assists. Torts is the last person I would listen to when it comes to our abysmal PP.

Honestly Hagelin IS a better player and deserves more money.

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07-13-2013, 06:06 AM
  #218
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It was without a goal, not assists. Torts is the last person I would listen to when it comes to our abysmal PP.

Honestly Hagelin IS a better player and deserves more money.
There's no debate on who the better player is or, who contributed more. I think people feel 2,25 m/y is a bit steep for this guy. I like Hagelin because he adds the speed we lost when Gaborik got injured and later on left, but he is needs to be more consistent.

Hagelin and Zucc both have a little over 0,5 ppg so on that front both are equally important. Zucc's quality however is something we desperately need on the pp. Hagelin is a better player on ES, when he can fully utilize his speed.

I want both re-signed and I would say Hagelin would be worth 1,8 or 2 (at most). Zucc would be 1,3 or 1,5

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07-13-2013, 06:27 AM
  #219
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Originally Posted by Pass art by Brassard View Post
There's no debate on who the better player is or, who contributed more. I think people feel 2,25 m/y is a bit steep for this guy. I like Hagelin because he adds the speed we lost when Gaborik got injured and later on left, but he is needs to be more consistent.

Hagelin and Zucc both have a little over 0,5 ppg so on that front both are equally important. Zucc's quality however is something we desperately need on the pp. Hagelin is a better player on ES, when he can fully utilize his speed.

I want both re-signed and I would say Hagelin would be worth 1,8 or 2 (at most). Zucc would be 1,3 or 1,5
Zuccarello needs to produce more on the PP if he wants to get paid.
1 PPP in 15 regular season games and 3 PPP in 12 playoff games.

For the record, I also want Zucc resigned. I just find it ridiculous people are comparing him to Hagelin.

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07-13-2013, 07:00 AM
  #220
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3 PP points in 12 playoff games is quite impressive for a third liner. Zucc earns a chance after being misused by Torts 3 years in a row

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07-13-2013, 07:20 AM
  #221
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Originally Posted by Pass art by Brassard View Post
I don't think mentioning the NBA with a cap is really fair since their cap rules are pathetic. They have a soft cap, which allows big-market teams to go over the cap as long as they have the money to pay the 'penalty'
It's still a harder cap than that KHL has.

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07-13-2013, 07:25 AM
  #222
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It's still a harder cap than that KHL has.
Really? Both are soft caps, resulting in big market teams being able to assemble a squad full of star players.

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07-13-2013, 08:06 AM
  #223
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He is no less proven than Hagelin who has not played an entire NHL season yet either but we just gave him 2 years.
He's WAY less proven than Hagelin. Zuccarello has had 3 short stints in the NHL. Hagelin has nearly played as many games in his rookie season as Zuccarello has in his whole career. The issue with Zuccarello is that we have no idea if he's effective for more than a short stretch.

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07-13-2013, 08:10 AM
  #224
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Hes no lock, but the improvement he showed last year warrants him a contract.

Not to mention if he makes 1.5 hes easily tradeable so this whole debate about signing him is utterly absurd to me.
2 yr bridge show me contract at about 3.5 sounds right. Hagelin has a larger body of work and is more of a known quality for 500 k more. Makes sense all around.

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Old
07-13-2013, 08:14 AM
  #225
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Originally Posted by Pass art by Brassard View Post
3 PP points in 12 playoff games is quite impressive for a third liner. Zucc earns a chance after being misused by Torts 3 years in a row
What does it matter which line he plays on during ES when he is on the first PP unit? All I'm saying is for a guy whose strength and biggest bargaining chip in these negotiations is PP he is not very good at producing on it

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