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Phoenix XCVII: Forget it, Jake. It's Glendale.

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Old
07-13-2013, 12:05 PM
  #651
seasontixholder
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Now its put up or shut up time. The Yote fans will have to pay NHL ticket prices, pay for parking, and pay full concessions for this team to make any money. I'm betting they can't and in 5 years the out clause kicks in but maybe I will be surprised. The Yote fans have no more excuses except for the one that the arena is in the wrong place.

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07-13-2013, 12:19 PM
  #652
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Originally Posted by seasontixholder View Post
Now its put up or shut up time. The Yote fans will have to pay NHL ticket prices, pay for parking, and pay full concessions for this team to make any money. I'm betting they can't and in 5 years the out clause kicks in but maybe I will be surprised. The Yote fans have no more excuses except for the one that the arena is in the wrong place.
Don't see either the fan support increasing enough nor the community/business sponsorship in buying suites.

However, based on the 'salesman' job LeBlanc did on Councilmember Chavira, that story is yet to unfold...

But it won't take the full five years to involve this...


Last edited by Llama19: 07-13-2013 at 12:22 PM. Reason: Grammar
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07-13-2013, 12:28 PM
  #653
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Don't see either the fan support increasing enough nor the community/business sponsorship in buying suites.
Could be a rally amongst the fans, increase in Seasons Ticket Sales, but ya, on the corporate side of the ledger, some serious work to do there and it wont happen overnight. Take several years in fact, years these guys just dont have. Then theres the whole issue of Global Spectrum. Their going to have to hit the ground running full speed and never letting up if that buildings going to at least break even, and that right there as well, 24-36mnth's to re-build from the league & AEG's negligence in letting it drift dead in the water for 4.5yrs. Moyes & AEG previously no great shakes in that department either, despite the facility receiving rave reviews.

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07-13-2013, 12:39 PM
  #654
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Originally Posted by seasontixholder View Post
Now its put up or shut up time. The Yote fans will have to pay NHL ticket prices, pay for parking, and pay full concessions for this team to make any money. I'm betting they can't and in 5 years the out clause kicks in but maybe I will be surprised. The Yote fans have no more excuses except for the one that the arena is in the wrong place.
Most importantly, people like you will waste the next half decade of your life stewing over this... have fun at that while we're at the games in person . In fact, you should come on down and sit on your hands while your team gets pasted like so many northerners have done the last few years. For which we are grateful.

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07-13-2013, 12:51 PM
  #655
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Could be a rally amongst the fans, increase in Seasons Ticket Sales, but ya, on the corporate side of the ledger, some serious work to do there and it wont happen overnight. Take several years in fact, years these guys just dont have. Then theres the whole issue of Global Spectrum. Their going to have to hit the ground running full speed and never letting up if that buildings going to at least break even, and that right there as well, 24-36mnth's to re-build from the league & AEG's negligence in letting it drift dead in the water for 4.5yrs. Moyes & AEG previously no great shakes in that department either, despite the facility receiving rave reviews.
Correct, from the article, No Kings-sized help for the Phoenix Coyotes*

To quote:

"Lack of sponsorships. suite sales and season ticket holders (including some business buyers) is a major competitive disadvantage for the Coyotes and is contributed to the teamís poor bottom-line."

Source: http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/b....html?page=all

* Applied to previous 'deals' and I agree, it will take far longer than the '5 year' window that RSE/IA has...

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07-13-2013, 01:09 PM
  #656
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Could be a rally amongst the fans, increase in Seasons Ticket Sales, but ya, on the corporate side of the ledger, some serious work to do there and it wont happen overnight. Take several years in fact, years these guys just dont have.
I do believe STH numbers will increase, but only to the extent that they get back those that were STHs before and had walked away because of frustration. New owner, some stability now, those fans who were always fans will be back. New STHs? That's to be seen.

But you are right about the corporate support. And its not just a question of will the corporations support the Coyotes, but in these economic times, can these businesses afford to add anyone to the support ledger? IE: If you are the Killion ABC Company and are already supporting baseball, football, basketball, etc. are you going to give support to the Coyotes when they come knocking? You may want to, but can you? It's not going to be an easy road to toe for the Coyotes. For the last 4 years the Coyotes have been out of sight out of mind for the corporate world.

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07-13-2013, 01:22 PM
  #657
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Correct... "Lack of sponsorships. suite sales and season ticket holders (including some business buyers) is a major competitive disadvantage for the Coyotes and is contributed to the team’s poor bottom-line."
And ya, cbcwpg as well, its an over-crowded market, highly competitive for a smallish pool of money, hockey ranking well down the chain in having to go head-head with Colangelo's downtown empire, the Cards, D-Backs & Cactus League, the PGA & a number of other sports/events. Your just not going to get full-pop, full-price for suites & sponsorships right out of the box like this, the brand, sport badly damaged. Going to take longer than a half a decade to gain the corporate sectors confidence, graduating prices from rock-bottom to within the ranges of elsewhere around the league. I think the greatest gains as I mentioned will be on the consumer side, Seasons Ticket Sales. Could see that trending upwards fairly quickly however if it doesnt & Global Spectrum doesnt roll up their sleeves & get at it, then Houston, we have a serious serious problem here. If this abomination of a deal does manage to get itself consummated, well, Im afraid the Death Watch is far from over. Unlike a Nashville or Pittsburgh, highly sceptical of this crews motives let alone abilities to turn it around. Now, I dont want them to fail, but honestly, look at what were dealing with here? The facts, the terms & structure of the thing, just everything, does not instil one with any confidence and the corporate sector, their not stupid. Not about to just take these guys on face value understanding that theyve got little to no money of their own in the deal, heavily leveraged. With so many other options why bother? "Call me in 3yrs or so, when youve proven you know what your doing, I'll consider it" a response they'll be hearing a lot of Im afraid.

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07-13-2013, 01:28 PM
  #658
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Most everyone is so certain that the deal is a go and so that begs the question.....

How are season tickets going? ....Y/Y comparison....

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07-13-2013, 01:29 PM
  #659
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Who's blaming who kihekah? Say what? Just turn in any direction.

Well that certainly clears that up. I think you are reading MUCH MORE into the situation than is really there. MOD

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Originally Posted by seasontixholder View Post
Now its put up or shut up time. The Yote fans will have to pay NHL ticket prices, pay for parking, and pay full concessions for this team to make any money. I'm betting they can't and in 5 years the out clause kicks in but maybe I will be surprised. The Yote fans have no more excuses except for the one that the arena is in the wrong place.
Really can't argue with that logic and have never supported the excuses. It will be interested to see if this "fan base" can rise to the occasion. I suspect that the majority of posters on the Coyote boards are not sth's, instead watching from the television, or (worse yet) computer. Either it looks like I may be enjoying at least five more years of live NHL action.

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07-13-2013, 01:36 PM
  #660
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You know, back a couple of years back when McKenzie stated in his blog in regards to how much the owners operated (and got accused by some of being on his "high horse")if stuff like this is the norm, and to me it just adds fuel to what we discussed during the lockout: there really is a heirarchy of ownership
And I can't fathom how awkward it must have been for Chevy, and probably most everyone in the meeting, hearing those "words of wisdom" from Jacobs. I'm guessing that he's either loved by the governor's or hated; I doubt there's an in between...

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07-13-2013, 01:41 PM
  #661
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Originally Posted by enarwpg View Post
And I can't fathom how awkward it must have been for Chevy, and probably most everyone in the meeting, hearing those "words of wisdom" from Jacobs. I'm guessing that he's either loved by the governor's or hated; I doubt there's an in between...
I wonder how many owners in the past have sold their franchise-not because of any financial issue necessarily-but rather taken aback possibly by such a culture.

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07-13-2013, 01:46 PM
  #662
enarwpg
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You sir, are the most 'dapper' of them all.

The petition gathers, for the referendum, are working behind the scenes, laying low as to not to draw the attention of their 'opposition.'

Would these be more of the 'mole' variety?
If you drew that picture, it's pretty darn good in it's unfinished state

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07-13-2013, 01:55 PM
  #663
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Most everyone is so certain that the deal is a go and so that begs the question.....

How are season tickets going? ....Y/Y comparison....
Can't really find actual 'season ticket' info (no one quoted has ever revealed these numbers), but based on this article from last year, attendance and other sales (i.e., suites) not so much...

Source: http://thehockeywriters.com/6-potent...oenix-coyotes/


Last edited by Llama19: 07-13-2013 at 01:56 PM. Reason: Added other sales
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07-13-2013, 01:56 PM
  #664
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Originally Posted by seasontixholder View Post
Now its put up or shut up time. The Yote fans will have to pay NHL ticket prices, pay for parking, and pay full concessions for this team to make any money. I'm betting they can't and in 5 years the out clause kicks in but maybe I will be surprised. The Yote fans have no more excuses except for the one that the arena is in the wrong place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kihekah19 View Post
Really can't argue with that logic and have never supported the excuses. It will be interested to see if this "fan base" can rise to the occasion. I suspect that the majority of posters on the Coyote boards are not sth's, instead watching from the television, or (worse yet) computer. Either it looks like I may be enjoying at least five more years of live NHL action.

You should argue with that logic because it's an incomplete picture. While fan support and interest drives some of the other revenue streams, no modern pro sports league can survive off the gate alone. The most successful garner only 40-45% of HRR from the gate receipts and in-arena revenue. If you accept one metric that you need a minimum of $70-80 MM to run an NHL operation, and accept $1-1.5 MM per game as a very good result... you can just barely get to the minimum off gate receipts.

The shared tenancy model helps arena operators certainly (referring to an interview posted in the Seattle thread), who would accept just the ability to cover team operating costs, but a successful franchise in its own right could really push things towards a very desirable investment.


That said, calling out Phoenix fans on HF is beyond absurd. Hard core fans aren't the problem. It's a lack of a greater fan base, and yes, casual fans. Every sport needs them too.

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07-13-2013, 01:57 PM
  #665
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Fugu,

You're killing me.

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07-13-2013, 01:59 PM
  #666
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Fugu,

You're killing me.

Nah, if I wanted to kill you, you wouldn't be able to post about it.

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07-13-2013, 02:02 PM
  #667
kihekah19
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You should argue with that logic because it's an incomplete picture. While fan support and interest drives some of the other revenue streams, no modern pro sports league can survive off the gate alone. The most successful garner only 40-45% of HRR from the gate receipts and in-arena revenue. If you accept one metric that you need a minimum of $70-80 MM to run an NHL operation, and accept $1-1.5 MM per game as a very good result... you can just barely get to the minimum off gate receipts.

The shared tenancy model helps arena operators certainly (referring to an interview posted in the Seattle thread), who would accept just the ability to cover team operating costs, but a successful franchise in its own right could really push things towards a very desirable investment.


That said, calling out Phoenix fans on HF is beyond absurd. Hard core fans aren't the problem. It's a lack of a greater fan base, and yes, casual fans. Every sport needs them too.
I think we can all agree that the gate here could use some help! If not, hey I'm great with that - more room for me, I can hear the skate blades cutting into the ice, pucks & sticks, the boys communicating etc.!

Hard core fans HF boards or not that don't go to the games are a problem here in the valley. I've railed for years that there are plenty of fans and people here that the game has been good to - they just need to show!

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07-13-2013, 02:03 PM
  #668
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Nah, if I wanted to kill you, you wouldn't be able to post about it.
Referring to your modifications.

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07-13-2013, 02:06 PM
  #669
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Referring to your modifications.

I know. Layers of meaning all around.

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07-13-2013, 02:18 PM
  #670
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Think of this. RSE loses $50 million. Pull the plug and sell the team for over $200 million to another city. Sure they lose money for a few years but in the end they'll make much more. They key is to watch this group on how they conduct business, advertising, pricing, etc.

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07-13-2013, 02:22 PM
  #671
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Correct, from the article, No Kings-sized help for the Phoenix Coyotes*

To quote:

"Lack of sponsorships. suite sales and season ticket holders (including some business buyers) is a major competitive disadvantage for the Coyotes and is contributed to the teamís poor bottom-line."

Source: http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/b....html?page=all

* Applied to previous 'deals' and I agree, it will take far longer than the '5 year' window that RSE/IA has...
It could be a tricky balance for RSE, brought about by the uncertainty inherent in their demand for a 5-year "out clause". Unless they build substantial momentum and have good on-ice success very early on (i.e. within the first 2-3 years), questions about the long-term longevity of the team might well creep in and keep potential STH and corporate groups sitting on their wallets. Of course, this was avoidable if the RSE group didn't structure the deal in such a way to look like it is poised for relocation from the beginning, and hadn't insisted on a five-year out clause tied directly to levels of operating losses that would surprise no-one.

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07-13-2013, 02:43 PM
  #672
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It could be a tricky balance for RSE, brought about by the uncertainty inherent in their demand for a 5-year "out clause". Unless they build substantial momentum and have good on-ice success very early on (i.e. within the first 2-3 years), questions about the long-term longevity of the team might well creep in and keep potential STH and corporate groups sitting on their wallets. Of course, this was avoidable if the RSE group didn't structure the deal in such a way to look like it is poised for relocation from the beginning, and hadn't insisted on a five-year out clause tied directly to levels of operating losses that would surprise no-one.
You are giving RSE/IE 2-3 years?

I'm not given them more than two, with the third year starting the long-ride into the sunset.

RSE/IE is not actually 'buying,' they are 'leasing' with a five-year 'out' (as is popular in Arizona, 'flipping this franchise') clause safely in their back pocket...

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07-13-2013, 02:53 PM
  #673
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You are giving RSE/IE 2-3 years?

I'm not given them more than two, with the third year starting the long-ride into the sunset.

RSE/IE is not actually 'buying,' they are 'leasing' with a five-year 'out' (as is popular in Arizona, 'flipping this franchise') clause safely in their back pocket...
Yup. When the COG tried to get their own "out clause" to protect themselves, I was quite surprised that they didn't seem to contemplate revising the deal to push the "out clause" option for the Coyotes to 7 or 8 years. I think that a longer "locked in" period would provide incentives for RSE to aggressively try to make the team work. Instead of reducing their own risk, perhaps they should have pushed a bit more "shared risk" in the performance of the Coyotes financially back to RSE. I would have liked to see how LeBlanc and co. would have handled the PR if they were forced to reject any deferral of the "locked in" time period. I was actually hoping that Weiers or Hugh would have asked LeBlanc to increase the "locked in" period during the council meeting.

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07-13-2013, 04:00 PM
  #674
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I was actually hoping that Weiers or Hugh would have asked LeBlanc to increase the "locked in" period during the council meeting.
I was "hoping" the COG stuck to their guns in insisting on a lot more than just that, forcing this idiocy to crater while calling out the NHL on its bluff that they even had anywhere suitable to go and if they did have? Good riddance.

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07-13-2013, 05:04 PM
  #675
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Originally Posted by Llama19 View Post
You are giving RSE/IE 2-3 years?

I'm not given them more than two, with the third year starting the long-ride into the sunset.

RSE/IE is not actually 'buying,' they are 'leasing' with a five-yiear 'out' (as is popular in Arizona, 'flipping this franchise') clause safely in their back pocket...
Would there be anything stopping RSE from relocating the Coyotes in 5 years? There's an out clause for the lease, but would that force them to sell the franchise?

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