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Should Markov complete his contract and be let go, be extended, or traded?

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Old
07-13-2013, 02:24 PM
  #76
le_sean
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Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
Hold onto the past?

January: 8 points in 6 games, three game winners.
February: 4 points in 14 games, rough month points wise.
March: 10 points in 14 games
April: 7 points in 14 games, game winner against Toronto.
May: 1 point in 5 playoff games

This is a defenceman we're talking about here. What past am I holding onto? 18 times this season including the post-season, Markov played more than 25 minutes a game. Who on the team is going to log those minutes and put up those kind of points? Not to mention how every player on the team looks up to him as a leader. And no, don't say Subban because we're talking WHO OTHER THAN SUBBAN.

Nobody. But keep the same mentality that led to Montreal thinking Yannick Weber was going to replace Mark Streit and James Wisnieuwski's production.
So he had a hot January and a good March. Let's sign him to a huge extension.

I know he's good with the puck on his stick. But in every single other scenario he is a poor player and he's not going to magically get better. I just need to watch him play, stat sheets are irrelevant. Any player can just chip a puck past him and beat him. It is extremely painful to watch. He's the cause of a lot of odd many rushes. If you can't see that, then that's not my problem.

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07-13-2013, 02:46 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
So he had a hot January and a good March. Let's sign him to a huge extension.

I know he's good with the puck on his stick. But in every single other scenario he is a poor player and he's not going to magically get better. I just need to watch him play, stat sheets are irrelevant. Any player can just chip a puck past him and beat him. It is extremely painful to watch. He's the cause of a lot of odd many rushes. If you can't see that, then that's not my problem.
Well no, not everybody can just chip a puck past him and beat him. Let's stop exaggerating. He got caught a few times at the blue line, all he has to do is play more conservative and pick his moments better. Nothing to really cry over.
Markov is a smart player, he can adapt to this easily.

He is not a poor player, not at all. He lost a step and it felt like the game was going fast for him a bit, but I'm pretty sure anybody would lose a step after being away from their jobs for so long due to injuries.

But I have a very hard time understanding how anybody can be disappointed with Markov's season. After all the problems and time off he went through, he bounces back to finish 4th in NHL D scoring, 2nd in PP pts, 1st in PP goals. His puck moving skills are still very much alive, so is his vision and hockey IQ. What he seemed to lack was mobility and speed, two things that he can actually improve.
His position was pretty decent for the most part, he still won a good share of his battles down low.

One thing I might agree with though is that I don't think he can carry a partner like he did with Komi. He needs a reliable partner. Emelin often found himself on Markov's side due to him not used to play on the right side, which created a lot of confusion.

We can't forget that this was a comeback year for Markov, and that despite his age he'll likely be better next year after some rest and more training.

In no way is he a poor player, I don't understand how anybody can come to this conclusion.


In any event, we have nobody to replace his puck moving skills, especially on the PP. We need him re-signed, having him as a top 4 would be a luxury.

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07-13-2013, 02:49 PM
  #78
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Short-term only... then again, it depends on how Beaulieu (and Tinordi to a lesser extent, especially if Tinordi manages to put his offensive act together) develop this season.

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07-13-2013, 02:52 PM
  #79
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I extend him for 2 years for 9M and that's it. If he refuses trade him at the deadline. for a blue chip prospect and a late first round pick

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07-13-2013, 02:53 PM
  #80
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Let him play out the year and be replaced by Beaulieu next year after a full year of dominating the AHL

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07-13-2013, 03:06 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Well no, not everybody can just chip a puck past him and beat him. Let's stop exaggerating. He got caught a few times at the blue line, all he has to do is play more conservative and pick his moments better. Nothing to really cry over.
Markov is a smart player, he can adapt to this easily.

He is not a poor player, not at all. He lost a step and it felt like the game was going fast for him a bit, but I'm pretty sure anybody would lose a step after being away from their jobs for so long due to injuries.

But I have a very hard time understanding how anybody can be disappointed with Markov's season. After all the problems and time off he went through, he bounces back to finish 4th in NHL D scoring, 2nd in PP pts, 1st in PP goals. His puck moving skills are still very much alive, so is his vision and hockey IQ. What he seemed to lack was mobility and speed, two things that he can actually improve.
His position was pretty decent for the most part, he still won a good share of his battles down low.

One thing I might agree with though is that I don't think he can carry a partner like he did with Komi. He needs a reliable partner. Emelin often found himself on Markov's side due to him not used to play on the right side, which created a lot of confusion.

We can't forget that this was a comeback year for Markov, and that despite his age he'll likely be better next year after some rest and more training.

In no way is he a poor player, I don't understand how anybody can come to this conclusion.


In any event, we have nobody to replace his puck moving skills, especially on the PP. We need him re-signed, having him as a top 4 would be a luxury.
It seemed to happen at least once a game. He understands he has lost two steps, so he pinches in the offensive zone to cancel breakouts before they happen, because if he's caught flat footed, it's over. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. At least he's intelligent enough to know his deficiencies and try to work around them, I'll give him that.

I also noticed that every time an opposing player dumps the puck in the Habs end, it's Emelin that has to go chase it because they both know Markov will not reach it in time. He can be good at fighting for pucks with his stick, but he'll get outmuscled in the corner and in front of the net.

He did have a good season, offensively. But I found the Habs are rather poor in their own zone, often chasing pucks and looking lost. There's a serious lack of mobility on the backend, and I think it really hurts the team. I would personally go in another direction once his contract is up.

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Old
07-13-2013, 03:26 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
It seemed to happen at least once a game. He understands he has lost two steps, so he pinches in the offensive zone to cancel breakouts before they happen, because if he's caught flat footed, it's over. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. At least he's intelligent enough to know his deficiencies and try to work around them, I'll give him that.

I also noticed that every time an opposing player dumps the puck in the Habs end, it's Emelin that has to go chase it because they both know Markov will not reach it in time. He can be good at fighting for pucks with his stick, but he'll get outmuscled in the corner and in front of the net.

He did have a good season, offensively. But I found the Habs are rather poor in their own zone, often chasing pucks and looking lost. There's a serious lack of mobility on the backend, and I think it really hurts the team. I would personally go in another direction once his contract is up.
That's not why Emelin retrieves the puck, you make it seem as if Markov is the slowest player in the NHL. He's not that slow.
The reason why Emelin is the one going after the puck is because Markov is the great puck mover. You want Markov to organize the breakout, not Emelin.
That means Emelin gets the puck, Markov opens up, once Emelin gets the puck he tosses it along the boards to Markov who can then set up a play.

There was a lack of mobility, but I think people should wait until next season before making their minds up. This was a comeback year for Markov. If he improves next year and adapts his game better, there's no reason to want to get rid of him.

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Old
07-13-2013, 03:26 PM
  #83
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I want him and expect him to be traded

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07-13-2013, 03:29 PM
  #84
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If Markov was a ball player, he would be the greatest designated hitter in the A.L .
That's how I see him now, more than outstanding on the power play, words can't describe how confidente, intelligent and imaginative he has become in this situation.
But his play in 5vs 5 situations is really lacking now. If coach Therrien would have kept his regular and pk minutes down a bit, it wouldn't matter has much, I guess coach's respect for his veterans is way up there in his priorities ( Gionta situaion ?)
So, I'm thinking, if Markov and his agent would agree to a short term deal with a pay cut ( 3 years, 4 mil/year) , use him more wisely for the remaining of his contract. And see how thing fly....if we're completly out of it by trade deadline, he would be still movable having been put in 'win-win' situations.
But if Therrien still plays him 24-28 minutes a game, we all know an injury is just lurking around the corner, specially in a 82 game season......

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07-13-2013, 03:33 PM
  #85
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keep him forever, stuff him and put him on display by the second floor future shop at the forum

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07-13-2013, 03:34 PM
  #86
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keep him forever, stuff him and put him on display by the second floor future shop at the forum
Probably the most logical and intelligent answer I have seen yet.

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07-13-2013, 04:29 PM
  #87
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Probably the most logical and intelligent answer I have seen yet.





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07-13-2013, 04:40 PM
  #88
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Markov + 1st for someone's Top 3 pick.

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07-13-2013, 04:50 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Well no, not everybody can just chip a puck past him and beat him. Let's stop exaggerating. He got caught a few times at the blue line, all he has to do is play more conservative and pick his moments better. Nothing to really cry over.
Markov is a smart player, he can adapt to this easily.

He is not a poor player, not at all. He lost a step and it felt like the game was going fast for him a bit, but I'm pretty sure anybody would lose a step after being away from their jobs for so long due to injuries.

But I have a very hard time understanding how anybody can be disappointed with Markov's season. After all the problems and time off he went through, he bounces back to finish 4th in NHL D scoring, 2nd in PP pts, 1st in PP goals. His puck moving skills are still very much alive, so is his vision and hockey IQ. What he seemed to lack was mobility and speed, two things that he can actually improve.
His position was pretty decent for the most part, he still won a good share of his battles down low.

One thing I might agree with though is that I don't think he can carry a partner like he did with Komi. He needs a reliable partner. Emelin often found himself on Markov's side due to him not used to play on the right side, which created a lot of confusion.

We can't forget that this was a comeback year for Markov, and that despite his age he'll likely be better next year after some rest and more training.

In no way is he a poor player, I don't understand how anybody can come to this conclusion.


In any event, we have nobody to replace his puck moving skills, especially on the PP. We need him re-signed, having him as a top 4 would be a luxury.
Great post Kriss, I agree with everything here. Markov/plekanecs have to be the duo that is least respected/appreciated by their respective fan bases. This team lives and dies by them. I don't believe it was coincidence that PK broke out a bit sooner for a Norris calibre season as soon as marky returns. Although we'd proably agree he was heading that direction eventually, but IMO Markov accelerated the process. I also don't believe that us finishing 2nd in the conference and winning our division with marky in the lineup was a coincidence.

Sure he's maybe lost a step, I'm not even sure he's lost it for good though, last year was basically a recovery year, an experiment almost. It was a shortened-season with a condensed schedule and Markov suffered from that and the misuse from Therrien, in the right situation Markov is still dynamite imo.

We need these guys, the days many stop asking to trade them will be the day I'm one happy camper

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Old
07-13-2013, 04:52 PM
  #90
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Markov + 1st for someone's Top 3 pick.
Markov's not worth that much, also a team picking top 3 is likely rebuilding and won't trade down for a 35 year old d-man.

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07-13-2013, 04:56 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
It seemed to happen at least once a game. He understands he has lost two steps, so he pinches in the offensive zone to cancel breakouts before they happen, because if he's caught flat footed, it's over. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. At least he's intelligent enough to know his deficiencies and try to work around them, I'll give him that.

I also noticed that every time an opposing player dumps the puck in the Habs end, it's Emelin that has to go chase it because they both know Markov will not reach it in time. He can be good at fighting for pucks with his stick, but he'll get outmuscled in the corner and in front of the net.

He did have a good season, offensively. But I found the Habs are rather poor in their own zone, often chasing pucks and looking lost. There's a serious lack of mobility on the backend, and I think it really hurts the team. I would personally go in another direction once his contract is up.
Since this applies to everyone and not just Markov it could easily be a coaching problem. It certainly looked like the entire D-corp was told to pinch at the offensive zone much more than they were under Martin/Cunnyworth. In the zone we no longer collapse in front of the net and with the condensed schedule it's no surprise that players struggled with the change as there was less practice time.

The only times Markov speed gets exposed is when he pinches and doesn't hold the puck in. Most defenceman in the league will let the forward get the puck after he chips it in the zone and then try to hit/steal the puck because if the defenceman goes in first he's going to get plastered by the forechecker it has nothing to do with the defenceman's speed or lack thereof.

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07-13-2013, 05:04 PM
  #92
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Assuming he plays well enough next season, basically same as this past season, I'd re-sign him in June for $10M/2yrs.

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07-13-2013, 05:07 PM
  #93
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I would always accept a trade that would profit the team for any player we got. I mean, you always whant to get better.

But for me it's very doubtful that another team would offer a deal where we trade Markov and still come on top.


We are talking about Markov here, who was top 3 before is injury and, even tough he missed two years, he managed to play more minutes than his norris winner partner...

This guy is gold, loves the city and never was a problem off-ice.

A veteran of this caliber is what you whant for Beaulieu and his development to . Let Markov prepare is own replacement.

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07-13-2013, 05:42 PM
  #94
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I think Markov should retire a Hab. He was amazing again this season and it's no coincidence that we have our best finish due to him playing healthy. He needs to be extended, 9M/2 years, or 10M/2 max though we have alot of players to resign in the near future.

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07-13-2013, 06:29 PM
  #95
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The primary reason we made it far in the playoffs that year was Halak's unbelievable performance in the first two rounds. Once he became more human, Habs were toasted.
No, I realize that. Which is why I said we never really improved. But nonetheless, I don't think Koivu was really a make or break the team guy for us in those last few years. That's not to say he wasn't a great guy or didn't have heart.

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07-13-2013, 06:34 PM
  #96
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For the right price I would move him. This team just isn't a contender now and we need to better manage assets.

That being, we wouldn't get a lot for him at this point.

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07-13-2013, 06:47 PM
  #97
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Well you have your options.

- Re-sign him to his final contract. The sensical thing.
- Trade him on Trade Deadline Day.
- Let him walk.

Main priority in this case is to start discussions and get a feel for what Markov is thinking. Does he still have gas left in the tank? Can he go another year or two, or three? Does he want to retire a Hab? If any of those questions receives a no, or any hesitation whatsoever, Bergevin should then look into trading him. On Trade Deadline, many teams will look to overpay, especially for a seasoned vet than can help them on the powerplay and that has a reputation for being generally good. The return would be something like a 1st round pick and a prospect. We've seen crazier trades before, so it's safe to assume that return would be reasonable. Maybe even more.

If he answers yes to all those questions, sign him up to his retirement contract, ride him out and let him leave hockey as a member of the Montreal Canadiens.
Yes he gets paid and pretty damn well, but he has been loyal to this team, loves it here and has been a bright light in many years of gloom. I know people will go on about getting rid of him to get something for the future, but I like the way you put it, see what he says and wants. Its being classy, and many teams have shown important players that class, the Habs are supposed to be one of the classiest organizations so I hope we do what you suggest.

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07-13-2013, 07:07 PM
  #98
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It is absolutely impossible to judge Markov on last year. Clearly, the guy was affected by the short compressed schedule. We have no other options but to judge what to do with him based on this present season. Not sure though how people can make a judgment, positive or negative at this point though. There might be signals that he indeed regressed just like there are other signals that we still don't have another passer like him on the team. But this season, while longer but less compressed will tell the whole story. And depending where we are at, it might go from trading him at the trade deadline to signing him for another 2 years.

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07-13-2013, 07:15 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
It seemed to happen at least once a game. He understands he has lost two steps, so he pinches in the offensive zone to cancel breakouts before they happen, because if he's caught flat footed, it's over. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. At least he's intelligent enough to know his deficiencies and try to work around them, I'll give him that.

I also noticed that every time an opposing player dumps the puck in the Habs end, it's Emelin that has to go chase it because they both know Markov will not reach it in time. He can be good at fighting for pucks with his stick, but he'll get outmuscled in the corner and in front of the net.

He did have a good season, offensively. But I found the Habs are rather poor in their own zone, often chasing pucks and looking lost. There's a serious lack of mobility on the backend, and I think it really hurts the team. I would personally go in another direction once his contract is up.
huh... what games were you watching, really...

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Old
07-13-2013, 07:31 PM
  #100
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Markov obviously lost some mobility. He isn't the Markov that completely shut down Joe Thornton in the playoffs. If we're out of the top 8, then we have to trade Markov at the deadline. If we can't make the playoffs, it means we're still rebuilding and we need all the help we can get in the form of picks and/or young players. Markov would be extremely attractive to a contender with PP problems (or any contender, really).

If we make the playoffs, then it depends on his year. I think Markov can still play at a high level given he doesn't get banged up anymore than he already is and plays slightly less at 5v5 (which would require a stronger D-depth than we currently have). A 2 year deal would be feasible.

I would rule out an extension at this point though.

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