HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The Business of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

Ville de Québec Part X: Pousse mais pousse égal Gary! (Mod warning post #774)

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-09-2013, 01:14 AM
  #251
Killion
Global Moderator
 
Killion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Casablanca
Country: Morocco
Posts: 22,447
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathToAllButMetal View Post
Why would you believe anything that weasel has ever said about Winnipeg and Quebec?...
Why would I believe anything Bettman says? 90% of it I dont. But that 10% when I know he's being honest, dont have to divide & subtract from his statements, then I know he's being real. And Ive heard him say it enough times about Quebec to buy it. You might think Im dumb, a sucker, but I think Im right about it, believe your wrong.... On your list there, Im thinking the end-game for Phoenix will in fact be Houston. And I also think Expansion happens X's 2: Seattle, Ouebec City in 2015. The rest of em', not seeing it happen. GTA2 has already imploded, KC is a non-starter: Vegas is a nightmare: Hartfords got no chance & Clevelands way to close to Columbus; Milwaukee & hopefully Hamilton entering by 2020.

Killion is offline  
Old
07-09-2013, 01:27 AM
  #252
Ismellofhockey
Registered User
 
Ismellofhockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,585
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathToAllButMetal View Post
Gary's wish list for movement/expansion:

1. Seattle
2. Las Vegas
3. Houston
4. Kansas City
5. Milwaukee
6. Cleveland
7. Hartford
8. GTA 2
9. Quebec City
I'll humour you by pretending you have some kind of info to base this on, but I don't see why you would believe this:

Kansas City has had an NHL arena for much longer than Quebec. They still have pretty much never been in the discussion for Phoenix or Atlanta. I don't see why this would change. They are barely on the list.

Hartford has been told repeatedly that it is more than a longshot. It is too close to the Rangers and it has a tiny population.

GTA2 has 3 teams lobbying against it, including 2 who would have to waive territorial rights. Good luck.

Cleveland is the 29th largest metro area in the US with just over 2 million people, Milwaukee is 39th with just over 1.5 million. Cleveland has 3 major league sports teams.
Milwaukee has 2 and if you consider the average US city with an NHL team only has 10% of NHL fans, that would mean only 150 000 people to support an NHL team...

Seattle, Las Vegas and Houston are options, but Houston seems to have taken itself out of the game, really Quebec is at worst 3rd on the list.

Ismellofhockey is offline  
Old
07-09-2013, 02:08 AM
  #253
Killion
Global Moderator
 
Killion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Casablanca
Country: Morocco
Posts: 22,447
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ismellofhockey View Post
Seattle, Las Vegas and Houston are options, but Houston seems to have taken itself out of the game, really Quebec is at worst 3rd on the list.
The only 3 on that list that make any sense would be Seattle for obvious reasons, Houston (new investor with RSE in Phoenix with serious money from Houston - so I could see that happening through relo IF the deal happens) and of course Quebec City. Milwaukee is intriguing but only if the Bucks move to Seattle, a new arena built, Wirtz in Chicago willing. As for Southern Ontario: my picks & support lies with Hamilton, Expansion, possibly by 2017/20. Of the lot, Quebec City #1, Seattle #2 for the most immediate Expansion & or Relocation.

Killion is offline  
Old
07-09-2013, 03:42 AM
  #254
Kimota
Nation of Poutine
 
Kimota's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: La Vieille Capitale
Country: France
Posts: 21,948
vCash: 500
Maybe it's just me but I never thought the Coyotes situation was that linked to Quebec as far as the team moving and being renamed the Nordiques? It never bothered me and was never in fear of them not coming in QC and Quebec missing out on a team.

(I tend to think it's because I already have a team so I can watch what they are doing and other Nords fans are more worried and impatient about it cause they don't have a particular home as hockey fans since the Nords left?)

But here's the thing, what the Coyotes situation did however was put a torch on the butts of not only Quebec city city as a whole but the entire province including politicians, fans and so forth into going ahead by every means possibles to get a new arena. Why do you think the building of an arena is happening now? Cause politicians realised that it's possible to have a team esp. the way Atlanta moved to Winnipeg. And now the arena is being built and in my opinion this would never have happened if guys like Mayor Labeaume would not have had the "OK" from Gary Bettman in the first place. I trully believe that.

In short, I think as a whole the whole Coyotes Epic "story" was great for Quebec city and for Quebec to have a team in the near futur.

Kimota is offline  
Old
07-11-2013, 04:53 PM
  #255
The Zetterberg Era
Moderator
Nyquist Explosion!
 
The Zetterberg Era's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Ft. Myers, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 18,233
vCash: 500
Come on down New Jersey Devils. What do you get for struggling financially and then stabbing 29 other Owners in the league in the back by not taking up their fight and tolling/suspending instead of voiding the contract of Kovalchuk? Why, it is sold and relocated to Quebec City. It might not be that simple, but I can honestly see with all the problems already existing in Jersey and then this action which more than likely infuriated a substantial number of Owners the real possibility of New Jersey to QC.

The Zetterberg Era is online now  
Old
07-11-2013, 08:35 PM
  #256
No Fun Shogun
Global Moderator
34-38-61-10-13
 
No Fun Shogun's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Chicagoland, IL
Country: Fiji
Posts: 26,544
vCash: 50
The Devils aren't relocating. Their financial problems are wholly related to them building their arena at literally the worst possible time imaginable and getting sunk in the debt coming from it.

They're a new owner away from being fine. If they ever get put on the auction block, a New Jersey group will easily swoop in and pick them up.

No Fun Shogun is online now  
Old
07-11-2013, 08:59 PM
  #257
Stanley Cup
Bettman's ice bucket
 
Stanley Cup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Quebec City
Country: Martinique
Posts: 1,643
vCash: 500
Well, with Darryl Jones on board we can count 1 more vote against us if there happens to be a relocation vote at some point in the future. I didn't think of that one.

Stanley Cup is online now  
Old
07-13-2013, 12:14 PM
  #258
Undertakerqc
Registered User
 
Undertakerqc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 3,282
vCash: 500
The arena is moving forward nicely. Steel frame should start going up this automn: http://www.ville.quebec.qc.ca/webcam...tre/index.aspx

Undertakerqc is offline  
Old
07-13-2013, 01:32 PM
  #259
NHL Hartford
Registered User
 
NHL Hartford's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hartford, CT
Country: United States
Posts: 326
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ismellofhockey View Post
Hartford has been told repeatedly that it is more than a longshot. It is too close to the Rangers and it has a tiny population.
1.9 Million people within 30 min of the XL Center is to small? New York too close? NY and BOS are both over 100 miles away. 3rd richest state in the country, most disposable income, strong corporate base (Travelers, Aetna, United Technologies, Stanley Black & Decker, The Hartford, United Health, Met Life, etc, etc.) AND no professional team. Most importantly there's already an existing fanbase that you can begin to build up again.


Last edited by NHL Hartford: 07-13-2013 at 01:37 PM.
NHL Hartford is offline  
Old
07-13-2013, 03:03 PM
  #260
NHL Hartford
Registered User
 
NHL Hartford's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hartford, CT
Country: United States
Posts: 326
vCash: 500
Cleveland I don't believe would be able to support another professional team let alone an NHL team. I also don't think the NHL has any plans for 2 teams in Ohio.

Milwaukee isn't an option as long as the Bucks are there.

LV is the biggest gamble (pardon the pun) not worth the risk imo.

Qc is a lock.

Houston/KC are apathetic.

1 of Seattle/Portland is a lock.

That leaves 1 more opening and for the life of me I don't see 9 teams in Canada right or wrong.

Hartford needs an arena and I realize it's the biggest piece, but after that there's not very many obstacles left, an owner would be found, there's no pre-exisiting/future tenants to contend with (Super Sonics), or operators who wouldn't want the NHL (Houston).


Last edited by NHL Hartford: 07-13-2013 at 05:27 PM.
NHL Hartford is offline  
Old
07-13-2013, 04:48 PM
  #261
Shawa666
Registered User
 
Shawa666's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Québec, Qc, Ca
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,322
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobo8192 View Post
1.9 Million people within 30 min of the XL Center is to small? New York too close? NY and BOS are both over 100 miles away. 3rd richest state in the country, most disposable income, strong corporate base (Travelers, Aetna, United Technologies, Stanley Black & Decker, The Hartford, United Health, Met Life, etc, etc.) AND no professional team. Most importantly there's already an existing fanbase that you can begin to build up again.
My rule of thumb for market size: 1 canadian = 2 northern market american = 4 southern market american

Shawa666 is offline  
Old
07-18-2013, 04:25 PM
  #262
Phil Parent
Is Watching The D
 
Phil Parent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Sorel-Tracy, Quebec
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,365
vCash: 500
Perhaps bored with having his money lying around, PKP bought out his competition in the magazine industry today.

Indeed, Quebecor has bought out the company that makes "La Semaine".

La Semaine's creator, Claude J. Charron, now has the distinction of having sold his business to PKP twice in the last 15 years and three times in all. The man should make "Creating magazines that Quebecor will eventually buy" a part of his resume.


Last edited by Phil Parent: 07-18-2013 at 04:34 PM.
Phil Parent is offline  
Old
07-19-2013, 04:05 AM
  #263
Kimota
Nation of Poutine
 
Kimota's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: La Vieille Capitale
Country: France
Posts: 21,948
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Parent View Post
Perhaps bored with having his money lying around, PKP bought out his competition in the magazine industry today.

Indeed, Quebecor has bought out the company that makes "La Semaine".

La Semaine's creator, Claude J. Charron, now has the distinction of having sold his business to PKP twice in the last 15 years and three times in all. The man should make "Creating magazines that Quebecor will eventually buy" a part of his resume.
I predict we're gonna have more and more pages of Celine Dion for years to come.

Kimota is offline  
Old
07-19-2013, 08:33 AM
  #264
Shawa666
Registered User
 
Shawa666's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Québec, Qc, Ca
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,322
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Parent View Post
Perhaps bored with having his money lying around, PKP bought out his competition in the magazine industry today.

Indeed, Quebecor has bought out the company that makes "La Semaine".

La Semaine's creator, Claude J. Charron, now has the distinction of having sold his business to PKP twice in the last 15 years and three times in all. The man should make "Creating magazines that Quebecor will eventually buy" a part of his resume.
Don't know why the keep playing this game. It's the third time they've done it.

Charron Creates magazine, Quebecor buys it. repeat process again and again.

Shawa666 is offline  
Old
07-31-2013, 08:20 AM
  #265
Acesolid
The Illusive Bettman
 
Acesolid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Québec
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,771
vCash: 500
Hey, if the seattle thread is being resurrected, this one ought to be (and stickied) too!

So there's a rumor of the Nhl granting a 275 million $ expansion to Seattle. IF this is true, This brings us to 31 teams. So for the sake of logic and balance it's obvious the NHL will add another team!

Considering it's doubtfull the NHL will give a team within Toronto's territory, and I seriously doubt there's anyone that would pay that price in either Portland or Houston for an expansion team, I feel we'll be co-expansion partners!

What do you think?

Acesolid is offline  
Old
07-31-2013, 08:23 AM
  #266
LouisOlivier
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Ville de Québec
Country: Canada
Posts: 241
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acesolid View Post
Hey, if the seattle thread is being resurrected, this one ought to be (and stickied) too!

So there's a rumor of the Nhl granting a 275 million $ expansion to Seattle. IF this is true, This brings us to 31 teams. So for the sake of logic and balance it's obvious the NHL will add another team!

Considering it's doubtfull the NHL will give a team within Toronto's territory, and I seriously doubt there's anyone that would pay that price in either Portland or Houston for an expansion team, I feel we'll be co-expansion partners!

What do you think?
I don't really see Portland with Seattle at the same time. We have good chance of having the 32nd one, good ownership group, brand new arena, rabid hockey fan base (expension = top bottom for 5 years min).

I think even if Seattle gets an expension, Portland have some chance too, Houson, Las Vegas. Maybe the NHL is only planning for expending to 31 team..

LouisOlivier is offline  
Old
07-31-2013, 08:26 AM
  #267
Buck Aki Berg
My pockets hurt
 
Buck Aki Berg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ottawa, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,086
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LouisOlivier View Post
I think even if Seattle gets an expension, Portland have some chance too, Houson, Las Vegas. Maybe the NHL is only planning for expending to 31 team..
There were 21 teams for twelve years, so an odd number of teams isn't without precedent.

Buck Aki Berg is offline  
Old
07-31-2013, 08:28 AM
  #268
Acesolid
The Illusive Bettman
 
Acesolid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Québec
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,771
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buck Aki Berg View Post
There were 21 teams for twelve years, so an odd number of teams isn't without precedent.
I think that, considering the mess that usually is an expansion draft, wouldn't it make more sense to have a single one for two teams at once rather then two in short succession?

Acesolid is offline  
Old
07-31-2013, 09:07 AM
  #269
Mightygoose
I Am Groot
 
Mightygoose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Ajax, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,420
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buck Aki Berg View Post
There were 21 teams for twelve years, so an odd number of teams isn't without precedent.
During the 21 team era, there wasn't a great appetite for expansion back then. St. Louis nearly folded after the move the Saskatoon was voted down for example.

That changed after the Gretzky trade to LA, IMO. So I don't see an odd number lasting nearly that long if that all.

Mightygoose is offline  
Old
07-31-2013, 09:35 AM
  #270
Buck Aki Berg
My pockets hurt
 
Buck Aki Berg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ottawa, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,086
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acesolid View Post
I think that, considering the mess that usually is an expansion draft, wouldn't it make more sense to have a single one for two teams at once rather then two in short succession?
If there are plans to expand by two teams, then yes. But all talk of a second team, to this point, has been completely theoretical, speculative, and driven the notion that the league "should" have an equal number of teams in each division, when there is 26 years of evidence (1974-2000) to the contrary.

Show me evidence that the league is actively gunning for 32 teams, and we can talk about how messy two expansion drafts will be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightygoose View Post
During the 21 team era, there wasn't a great appetite for expansion back then. St. Louis nearly folded after the move the Saskatoon was voted down for example.

That changed after the Gretzky trade to LA, IMO. So I don't see an odd number lasting nearly that long if that all.
I'm not sure how a vetoed relocation proves a lack of appetite for expansion.

I'm certainly not suggesting that it'd be another 12 years before we have an even number of teams. It's important to note that having 21 teams was also a function of Minnesota and Cleveland merging a year prior to the WHA merger, so it's clear that the NHL didn't want 21 teams, but accepted it anyway. Even so, if an odd number of teams was perceived to be such an issue, it wouldn't have taken twelve years to resolve it.


Last edited by Buck Aki Berg: 07-31-2013 at 09:48 AM.
Buck Aki Berg is offline  
Old
07-31-2013, 09:41 AM
  #271
Acesolid
The Illusive Bettman
 
Acesolid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Québec
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,771
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buck Aki Berg View Post
If there are plans to expand by two teams, then yes. But all talk of a second team, to this point, has been completely theoretical, speculative, and driven the notion that the league "should" have an equal number of teams in each division, when there is 26 years of evidence (1974-2000) to the contrary.

Show me evidence that the league is actively gunning for 32 teams, and we can talk about how messy two expansion drafts will be.
Erhm... the conferences are unbalanced and will be made whole by two expansion teams.

There's also the NFL precedent of gunning for 32 teams.

However, of course, that's not evidence. But I do not see the league only expending once when there are other interrested buyers, arenas and markets ready to throw money at the NHL!

Acesolid is offline  
Old
07-31-2013, 09:51 AM
  #272
Stanley Cup
Bettman's ice bucket
 
Stanley Cup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Quebec City
Country: Martinique
Posts: 1,643
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acesolid View Post
Erhm... the conferences are unbalanced and will be made whole by two expansion teams.

There's also the NFL precedent of gunning for 32 teams.

However, of course, that's not evidence. But I do not see the league only expending once when there are other interrested buyers, arenas and markets ready to throw money at the NHL!
The Atlantic division already has 8 teams, I can't see Detroit moving.

Stanley Cup is online now  
Old
07-31-2013, 09:54 AM
  #273
Mightygoose
I Am Groot
 
Mightygoose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Ajax, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,420
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buck Aki Berg View Post
If there are plans to expand by two teams, then yes. But all talk of a second team, to this point, has been completely theoretical, speculative, and driven the notion that the league "should" have an equal number of teams in each division, when there is 26 years of evidence (1974-2000) to the contrary.

Show me evidence that the league is actively gunning for 32 teams, and we can talk about how messy two expansion drafts will be.


I'm not sure how a vetoed relocation proves a lack of appetite for expansion.

I'm certainly not suggesting that it'd be another 12 years before we have an even number of teams. It's important to note that having 21 teams was also a function of Minnesota and Cleveland merging a year prior to the WHA merger, so it's clear that the NHL didn't want 21 teams, but accepted it anyway. Even so, if an odd number of teams was perceived to be such an issue, it wouldn't have taken twelve years to resolve it.
True enough, perhaps I used the wrong term of lack of appetite. Lack of expansion options may have been more the case back then.

Hopefully, the league will end up expanding by 2 anyways when the time is right.

Mightygoose is offline  
Old
07-31-2013, 10:42 AM
  #274
Acesolid
The Illusive Bettman
 
Acesolid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Québec
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,771
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanley Cup View Post
The Atlantic division already has 8 teams, I can't see Detroit moving.
Why would Detroit have to move? Just look at the thread about realignment. There are plenty of way to arrange things after an expansion without having Detroit move west.

Acesolid is offline  
Old
07-31-2013, 12:31 PM
  #275
Buck Aki Berg
My pockets hurt
 
Buck Aki Berg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ottawa, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,086
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acesolid View Post
Erhm... the conferences are unbalanced and will be made whole by two expansion teams.
Why are you presupposing that it's an issue to the people in the boardroom that the conferences are unbalanced?

Buck Aki Berg is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:33 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.