HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Winnipeg Jets
Notices

Losing our young players

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-12-2013, 02:01 AM
  #301
knorthern knight
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: GTA
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,633
vCash: 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by allan5oh View Post
But the problem is Jokinen on the third line is a very bad idea.
The problem is that Jokinen on the second line is an even worse idea.

knorthern knight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2013, 06:05 AM
  #302
YWGinYYZ
Global Moderator
Glass Half Full
 
YWGinYYZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,762
vCash: 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by knorthern knight View Post
The problem is that Jokinen on the second line is an even worse idea.
Maybe we should try Jokinen in net. That could solve two problems at once!

YWGinYYZ is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2013, 06:14 AM
  #303
garret9
AKA#VitoCorrelationi
 
garret9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 9,063
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by YWGinYYZ View Post
Maybe we should try Jokinen in net. That could solve two problems at once!
Tell him the pucks are mini burger patties

garret9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2013, 06:22 AM
  #304
Sweech
COYS!
 
Sweech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Hamilton, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,739
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by knorthern knight View Post
This should be a FAQ item...
  1. Noel ran Pavelec into the ground, including playing him in both halves of almost all our back-to-backs. Pavelec's save stats have been absolutely atrocious in the 2nd half of back-to-backs.
  2. Wasted Kane's talents by constantly teaming him up with Jokinen and Miettinen; and throw in Thorburn for good measure.
The above problems were glaringly obvious by mid-season. Correct them, win 2 or 3 more games, and we would have been in the playoffs in the playoffs.
1. The funny thing about Pavelec...his first game in the back-to-back series' were just as bad. Pavs didn't exactly show wear and tear because frankly he looked bad at the start of the season too.

2. Kane wasn't exactly "paired" with Thorburn. He was just double-shifted onto Thorburn's line. Which is pretty smart to turn an offensively incapable line into something that at least one threat.

Sweech is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2013, 07:43 AM
  #305
KingBogo
Admitted Homer
 
KingBogo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 4,117
vCash: 1126
Quote:
Originally Posted by ps241 View Post
Wow this is an intense thread!! Talk about a group therapy session I feel like we should all be sitting in chairs in a big circle taking turns talking


Ok my turn.......my name is ps241 and I am a Jets addict and here is my story!

gm0ney I quite liked your post #204 usually I just get the punch line but rarely the reason behind why you feel Chevy isn't getting it done. That was a great balanced breakdown and hard to argue with.

I would like to add to the debate. I agree with Holden's premise of this core (LLWEB) have a window and if our goal is to win a championship with them then we need to take the next step now because the cup doesn't come in your first year. first off the ship hasn't sailed yet on the dream but our window is closing. Here is where I would like to challenge this assumption though (or at least debate it). maybe Kevin is smart enough to know we probably won't win a championship with this core but they will be the base for us to permanently change our culture which supports the primary goal. that goal is to build an organization "that has a team in the playoffs every year with a chance to win it" (Boston and Detroit come to mind). enduring competitiveness living in the top half of the league.

To illustrate my point I would like to use the example of mountain snowmobiling. I am not sure if anyone has had the the pleasure of doing this activity in a group but it is very different that prairie sledding. as a team when you want to tackle a high point up the slope the method is the first sledder takes a run up the steep hill and when his mashine loses momentum right before it stalls he peels off and comes back down the hill.....then the second sledder goes up the exact same track on newly packed snow and is able to go higher then the first and break new ground and flatten more snow before he peels back to the pack.....then you just keep repeating until the "team" conquers the hill and on you go as a group. To me this is the metaphor for the Jets 2.0

TNSE and Chevy purchased the 25th place team in the NHL with all its young talent already on the parent club therefore a terrible non NHL prospect pool (Yikes). I just don't think you build a championship team out of this existing core guys. I don't want to rain on everyone's parade but without a top 5 NHL Goalie (like Boston or LA had) we don't have a sniff. That being said I don't think a full blow it up rebuild is the answer for this group at this time either (that probably should have started when Kovy left but I doubt Atlanta had an appetite for that in 2010).

But we need this group to assend the mountain as high as they can get before they peel off and by that we need them to make the playoffs maybe once or twice then we can begin to transition assets like Truck pointed out in post #207. making the playoffs will start changing the culture then we can retain a few and sell off some of LLWBE's as we keep an eye to enduring competitvness.

people say what has Chevy done and gm0ney made a good point in signing contracts and horse trading he has been average at best but look at his 2nd full draft (the first one was still probably the thrashers list) and nobody can argue that he has backed his words (draft and develop). In 2011 we has 7 draft picks and 3 in the top 90.......in 2012 we had only 6 draft picks and 3 in the top 90...... In 2013 we had 10 draft picks with 5 in the top 90 and 6 in the first 104 and picked up a nice player from Chicago as well. Now will more of these kids pan out....only time will tell but there are away more prospects in the pipeline now and it's not short term sexy but it is needed to take the 2nd and 3rd sleds higher up the mountain and maybe reach the peak!

short term We may need to add some pieces still and get our RFA's done but it is July 11th and some teams will still need to dump assets to make the cap so lets see how this unfolds.

At the end of the day Chevy is a very young NHL GM (20 years the junior of Dudley) and there will be some growing pains but he has been a part of "6" championship teams in 3 league with 3 different organizations and he was the primary architect of 4 of those championship groups. he has found a way to win at every level as an executive and he was going to be an NHL GM for someone and I am still glad it's us. the million dollar question is can his skills transition to this level "the big leagues" and my bet is yes. anyone can win a championship with the right team but to do it over and over with different players tells me he has the X factor that understands the team chemistry it takes to win championships. The problem is he was given a suboptimal starters kit and placed in a league where it's tough to make quick changes.

he has made mistakes but they all do.......TNSE will be patient and give him at least 5 more seasons IMHO so I am going to relax (ok that's a lie) and try to enjoy the ride.
Good post and I really like your analogy. I for one have been generally supportive of the job Chevy is doing. He seems to have a good eye for young talent and our prospect pool has moved from the bottom of the barrel to the top half of the league. We look to have a few gems ready to make the jump in the next year or so.

He is also gradually remaking the supporting cast replacing guys like Mittens, Wellwood, Antro with Seteguchi, Frolik and Halischuk. To me these are gradual and steady moves in the right direction. I also like they are all on short term contracts amping up the internal competition on the team.

My one possible beef with Chevy as he seems to be a real grinder negotiating with his RFA's. However as of today, it seems to be very professional with no damaged relationships. Consequently I expect the big 3 RFA's to be signed to fair contracts prior to their arbitration hearings.

IMO this is the exact blueprint True North told us they would be following when they moved the team to Winnipeg. If anything Chevy has cemented himself as the long term GM. He will be given the opportunity to let this play out. Once we become a perennial contender then we will start seeing more splash and dash. No use to do it now without a solid foundation.

Noel on the other hand does need to get the best out of the group he has been given and keep moving the team forward. His leash will be much shorter as I'm not convinced he is Chevy's long term coach.

KingBogo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2013, 07:52 AM
  #306
BigTuna49
RIP KevFist
 
BigTuna49's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: ATL
Country: Egypt
Posts: 22,921
vCash: 1165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweech View Post
1. The funny thing about Pavelec...his first game in the back-to-back series' were just as bad. Pavs didn't exactly show wear and tear because frankly he looked bad at the start of the season too.

2. Kane wasn't exactly "paired" with Thorburn. He was just double-shifted onto Thorburn's line. Which is pretty smart to turn an offensively incapable line into something that at least one threat.
1) This is simply not true and I'm sure Garret has te numbers somewhere. I know Pavs SV% in the 2nd I back-2-backs was like .870%.

2) While double shifting him on a line that can't produce isn't a bad idea, that doesn't excuse putting him with Joker and Mittens for so long.

BigTuna49 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2013, 08:14 AM
  #307
truck
HFB Partner
 
truck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,280
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweech View Post
1. The funny thing about Pavelec...his first game in the back-to-back series' were just as bad. Pavs didn't exactly show wear and tear because frankly he looked bad at the start of the season too.

2. Kane wasn't exactly "paired" with Thorburn. He was just double-shifted onto Thorburn's line. Which is pretty smart to turn an offensively incapable line into something that at least one threat.
Sadly, Wright and Thorburn were legitimately fed shifts on the 2nd line over players like Wellwood, Antropov and Burmistrov.

It had nothing to do with double shifting Kane.

truck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2013, 08:21 AM
  #308
ajmidd12
Know-It-All
 
ajmidd12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Hungover
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,548
vCash: 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingBogo View Post
Good post and I really like your analogy. I for one have been generally supportive of the job Chevy is doing. He seems to have a good eye for young talent and our prospect pool has moved from the bottom of the barrel to the top half of the league. We look to have a few gems ready to make the jump in the next year or so.

He is also gradually remaking the supporting cast replacing guys like Mittens, Wellwood, Antro with Seteguchi, Frolik and Halischuk. To me these are gradual and steady moves in the right direction. I also like they are all on short term contracts amping up the internal competition on the team.

My one possible beef with Chevy as he seems to be a real grinder negotiating with his RFA's. However as of today, it seems to be very professional with no damaged relationships. Consequently I expect the big 3 RFA's to be signed to fair contracts prior to their arbitration hearings.

IMO this is the exact blueprint True North told us they would be following when they moved the team to Winnipeg. If anything Chevy has cemented himself as the long term GM. He will be given the opportunity to let this play out. Once we become a perennial contender then we will start seeing more splash and dash. No use to do it now without a solid foundation.

Noel on the other hand does need to get the best out of the group he has been given and keep moving the team forward. His leash will be much shorter as I'm not convinced he is Chevy's long term coach.
I concur and further elaborate.

Noel has been given the "make it happen, or you're out" ultimatum contract extension. Chevy and Mark will be watching Noel's coaching style like hawks this season, if they see good progression, he will return. If not, they will replace him.

Chevy has his phone glued to his ear all day everyday since the season ended, he has been working on the UFAs he planned on qualifying (and did), releasing the UFAs who weren't going to be back, and talking with the RFAs who we need to re-sign. Meanwhile he has to keep his eyes and ears open to potential shopping, as a GM I can imagine it being like an auction when players are being shopped, you only get a certain amount of time to respond with interest and the player is gone somewhere else. Gotta be quick.

It's a fine juggling act, and frankly, I think Chevy is doing it well.

With that said, I still want Antropov to re-sign, I like the guy his PK has grown on me.

ajmidd12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2013, 08:35 AM
  #309
Howard Chuck
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Howard Chuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,339
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by YWGinYYZ View Post
Very well said ps, and thought provoking. Much better than any sarcastic snarkiness I'd probably toss out there trying to explain why I'm being patient with the management team.
I love the word 'snarkiness'. That's all.

Howard Chuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2013, 09:40 AM
  #310
pcanuck
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 606
vCash: 500
Mark Chipman is a businessman and is not involved in hockey ops. Thank goodness for that. That being said, I've met him several times and he is very strategic (likely because he's good at what he does). Although, I will also say, I'm not a fan of his.

I imagine, like his other businesses, he developed a 5 and 10 year strategic plan. As in all business, you don't expect to see a profit for the first three years. You just want to create a culture without damaging the future. Chevy has done that as the GM. Noel may be a different story.

Chevy will easily keep his job for the 5 years - no risky trades and his draft selections late in the rounds have saved him. This is allowing him to get rid of some of the AHL garbage he needed to pick up to stock the farm in Y1 (ie Gregoire).

Noel is however, under the gun. As a result of not getting NHL ready players either through waivers and/or UFA, Noel has been hard pressed to change the culture of inconsistency and poor effort (ie 60 min). Noel is simply not a good coach and has bended to pressure from players, esp. vets (ie Buff, even Pavs). Noel will be given his walking papers before December this year. Chevy is safe.

The question will become - When do they make the playoffs (considering we are in a a tougher new division)? Eventually season ticket holders want to be rewarded. Schief and Trouba have some high expectations to meet; so this year will be defining.

1 year of losing - no one cares. Two years - the question marks and boo birds come out. And they have! Three years - people want more. By the fourth and fifth year, people will want change and usually means a rebuild/rethink (but that won't happen with TNSE and Chipman if Chevy continues to stock the farm with prospects, which isn't hard).

pcanuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2013, 10:24 AM
  #311
Grind
Stomacheache AllStar
 
Grind's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Manitoba
Posts: 3,688
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by StronGeer View Post
That would be Wright. They had two goals that game, after he famously called it in the first intermission.
actually i'm almost certain it was tangradi

EDIT: so i apparently had this quote/reply open in a window for like a day before getting around to it. I sure feel sheepish.

Grind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2013, 10:51 AM
  #312
ps241
2.6% chance
 
ps241's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 9,041
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gm0ney View Post
That's an enlightening post ps241. Thanks for reading my earlier post...I wrote it because I think reasonable people can see the same evidence and still come to different conclusions. I do enjoy my punch line snark, but I'm not just full of irrational negativity - it's rational negativity! Well, it's not thoughtless negativity, anyway.

"Becoming a perennial contender" is a pretty ambitious goal, but TNSE brought the NHL back to Winnipeg, so they evidently don't think small. The thing is, how achievable is that goal? Detroit was terrible for years but then put together some great teams and have been a threat ever since...but some of that was luck, some of it was eerie scouting advantage in Sweden, some of it was the advantage US teams had when the Canadian dollar was low and there was no cap (Nate Silver wrote about this on his fivethirtyeight blog). Nobody's won more Cups than Montreal, but do they still have a winning culture? I think a lot of teams are trying to become perennial powerhouses, but it's not easy and a lot of stars have to align. I think one characteristic winners share is that they're always moving forward, trying to get better. Boston trades for Eriksson; Detroit signs Alfredsson. Even much maligned Philly is a destination for players because they're always trying to win now. I know they were bad last year, but who do you think is closer to a deep playoff run: Jets or Flyers?

Anyway, I agree that the book hasn't been written on Chevy yet. And he's going to get a pretty long leash from TNSE before there's serious talk of him being fired. I generally like the acquisitions he's been making this offseason. Not sure it's enough, but as you said, it's still early.
good post and yea I 100% agree that rational people can look at the same information and come up with different conclusions and its one of the things that makes this site entertaining.

Having a team that lives in the top half is an ambitious goal but I think that is where Chevy is at and I wanted to bring it up as food for thought or an alternate viewpoint to us trying to win a cup with this older core. I think it is about putting yourself in a realistic position to compete and then needing luck to have the right run on a given year. I do realize there has been a pattern that champions have followed lately but we also need to get our overall organizational depth up to speed.

I also agree that the good organizations are always trying to get better but I have to believe the bad ones are as well they just suck at it or don't have the assets to horse trade. One thing for sure is that the playing field is getting leveled more than ever short term so I think allot of this comes down to having an organizational vision and sticking to it and hoping you're right. Honestly some of it is just dumb luck as well.........if your draft picks work out you are in a good position if not you are kind of pouched.

This 2013 draft could be a game changer for us........Last year I was over the moon about Trouba but nothing else in that draft excited me. This year we drafted 4 kids (Morrissey, Petan, Comrie, and Lodge) that were all 1st round talent level on at least some lists. That is light years ahead of our other drafts on paper at least. On top of that we have a shot at some of the other players taken later to stick as well. If we have 3 or 4 out of this year’s draft make the parent club one day that would be huge. However we may crash and burn and look back at this as a lost opportunity one day and only time will tell.

Fun debate in the dog days of summer.

ps241 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2013, 10:59 AM
  #313
ps241
2.6% chance
 
ps241's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 9,041
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingBogo View Post
Good post and I really like your analogy. I for one have been generally supportive of the job Chevy is doing. He seems to have a good eye for young talent and our prospect pool has moved from the bottom of the barrel to the top half of the league. We look to have a few gems ready to make the jump in the next year or so.

He is also gradually remaking the supporting cast replacing guys like Mittens, Wellwood, Antro with Seteguchi, Frolik and Halischuk. To me these are gradual and steady moves in the right direction. I also like they are all on short term contracts amping up the internal competition on the team.

My one possible beef with Chevy as he seems to be a real grinder negotiating with his RFA's. However as of today, it seems to be very professional with no damaged relationships. Consequently I expect the big 3 RFA's to be signed to fair contracts prior to their arbitration hearings.

IMO this is the exact blueprint True North told us they would be following when they moved the team to Winnipeg. If anything Chevy has cemented himself as the long term GM. He will be given the opportunity to let this play out. Once we become a perennial contender then we will start seeing more splash and dash. No use to do it now without a solid foundation.

Noel on the other hand does need to get the best out of the group he has been given and keep moving the team forward. His leash will be much shorter as I'm not convinced he is Chevy's long term coach.
Yea it will be interesting to see how our RFA deals come together........Chevy is being patient and letting the comps build up and I really hope he doesn't chunk one of these. The problem is cash is so tight now that we can't just afford to pay the guys above market rate. We did that with Pavs and it cost us. In reality if Chevy is tough but fair he may end up shaving $1.5 to $2.0 million off the blended total AAV of the big three RFA's and that could open up room for us to sign another really solid asset.

ps241 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2013, 11:12 AM
  #314
TCsmyth
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 933
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ps241 View Post
Yea it will be interesting to see how our RFA deals come together........Chevy is being patient and letting the comps build up and I really hope he doesn't chunk one of these. The problem is cash is so tight now that we can't just afford to pay the guys above market rate. We did that with Pavs and it cost us. In reality if Chevy is tough but fair he may end up shaving $1.5 to $2.0 million off the blended total AAV of the big three RFA's and that could open up room for us to sign another really solid asset.
It will be very interesting. One of the challenges with the roster is not just the "dollars" that are associated with RFA's, but term. This many RFA/UFA situations coming up in one year is crazy tough, and they need to break that cycle.

It is very challenging for Chevy as he has to decide who he wants to "go long" on - and at what price - without having them all expire at the same time (and, of course you have to have the player agree to the dollars and term you are willing to give )

TCsmyth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2013, 11:21 AM
  #315
sully1410
Registered User
 
sully1410's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Turner Valley, Alta.
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,591
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcanuck View Post
Mark Chipman is a businessman and is not involved in hockey ops. Thank goodness for that. That being said, I've met him several times and he is very strategic (likely because he's good at what he does). Although, I will also say, I'm not a fan of his.

I imagine, like his other businesses, he developed a 5 and 10 year strategic plan. As in all business, you don't expect to see a profit for the first three years. You just want to create a culture without damaging the future. Chevy has done that as the GM. Noel may be a different story.

Chevy will easily keep his job for the 5 years - no risky trades and his draft selections late in the rounds have saved him. This is allowing him to get rid of some of the AHL garbage he needed to pick up to stock the farm in Y1 (ie Gregoire).

Noel is however, under the gun. As a result of not getting NHL ready players either through waivers and/or UFA, Noel has been hard pressed to change the culture of inconsistency and poor effort (ie 60 min). Noel is simply not a good coach and has bended to pressure from players, esp. vets (ie Buff, even Pavs). Noel will be given his walking papers before December this year. Chevy is safe.

The question will become - When do they make the playoffs (considering we are in a a tougher new division)? Eventually season ticket holders want to be rewarded. Schief and Trouba have some high expectations to meet; so this year will be defining.

1 year of losing - no one cares. Two years - the question marks and boo birds come out. And they have! Three years - people want more. By the fourth and fifth year, people will want change and usually means a rebuild/rethink (but that won't happen with TNSE and Chipman if Chevy continues to stock the farm with prospects, which isn't hard).
While I agree with the main points of you're post, I disagree on how you got there.

I don't believe for a second that Mark Chipman isn't involved in hockey operations. I think he's letting Chevy do his job and do it the way he told Chipman he would do it. Which is fine, but before you go out talkin to FA, you need to speak to the owner and more then likely Chipman is involved with the negotiations. I think Chipman goes over the draft reports and ideas for trades as well. They say that the most dangerous thing in the NHL is an owner that knows and loves hockey...that's what we have with Mark Chipman. He's committed to being a good owner and in doing so will eventually attract the big name free agents once word gets around.

Chevy doesn't get a "pass" because he's drafted well, the fact of the matter is that he was hired because he pitched a plan to our owner that knows hockey, and it was a plan that Chipman obviously agreed was the best course of action. He's not going to be fired before Chipman sees whether that plan works or not. When Chevy pitched him the plan, he probably ha a time line on how long building through the draft would take, and I would like to know if we are where we should be.

I personally believe that Chevy is expecting to make the playoffs this year, and I we don't then Noel will be sent packing and he will find someone that can get us there. I've said time and again that I don't think Noel gets enough from his players, as there is still some of them that just dot hate losing enough, and makes a lot of very vey strange decisions. I'm
not sure if he'll be gone by December or not, but if we're not on the post season in the upcoming season, he'll be gone.

What do you mean restocking the cupboards isn't hard? It's very ****ing hard. The most successful teams have had good luck in the later rounds. Chicago, Pittsburgh, nashville and Mtl all picked up a franchise Defenseman in the second round. One of he more essential pieces of he Vancouver roster wasn't even drafted, but a guy that played his way up. Van saw some good stuff and took a chance. That's just a few examples.
It's not easy to restock the cupboards when they're empty and your really making your best guess at what they'll turn into. And even if it was easy, it wouldn't matter because building through the draft was the game plan.

At the end of the day, I think Chevy knows how to build a winner, and I guess it depends on whether you have that kind of faith in the guy like I do. I guess it also depends if you want long term success or instant gratification with the idea of Chevy blowing up the team, even if it wasn't according to plan, just for the idea that at least he's doing something.

sully1410 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2013, 11:26 AM
  #316
ps241
2.6% chance
 
ps241's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 9,041
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by TCsmyth View Post
It will be very interesting. One of the challenges with the roster is not just the "dollars" that are associated with RFA's, but term. This many RFA/UFA situations coming up in one year is crazy tough, and they need to break that cycle.

It is very challenging for Chevy as he has to decide who he wants to "go long" on - and at what price - without having them all expire at the same time (and, of course you have to have the player agree to the dollars and term you are willing to give )
look no further than Nashville having Weber and Suter's deal expire the same year. They had no choice really but I think it made life very tough for the Preds. David Poile is very experienced but that one seemed to just about do the guy in

ps241 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2013, 11:31 AM
  #317
djc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 20
vCash: 500
I thought it was Anthony Peluso who 'fed' Jokinen in the Ranger game.

I should introduce myself. I registered here when the team came to Winnipeg. I have "read" this board constantly but never logged on. If I had questions, someone here would eventually ask them or answer them.

BTW, I "learned" hockey watching the WHA then NHL Jets from the stands. When the Jets 1.0 joined the NHL, I believe the WHL teams could only protect a very limited number of players from the roster and the rights to any player that had been drafted or played for a NHL team reverted to back to said team. The WHA teams were gutted ... it was painful to watch. Trust me when I say "older" Jets fans have experienced rebuilds!

djc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2013, 11:39 AM
  #318
Gm0ney
Registered User
 
Gm0ney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,255
vCash: 1300
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingBogo View Post
Good post and I really like your analogy. I for one have been generally supportive of the job Chevy is doing. He seems to have a good eye for young talent and our prospect pool has moved from the bottom of the barrel to the top half of the league. We look to have a few gems ready to make the jump in the next year or so.

He is also gradually remaking the supporting cast replacing guys like Mittens, Wellwood, Antro with Seteguchi, Frolik and Halischuk. To me these are gradual and steady moves in the right direction. I also like they are all on short term contracts amping up the internal competition on the team.

My one possible beef with Chevy as he seems to be a real grinder negotiating with his RFA's. However as of today, it seems to be very professional with no damaged relationships. Consequently I expect the big 3 RFA's to be signed to fair contracts prior to their arbitration hearings.

IMO this is the exact blueprint True North told us they would be following when they moved the team to Winnipeg. If anything Chevy has cemented himself as the long term GM. He will be given the opportunity to let this play out. Once we become a perennial contender then we will start seeing more splash and dash. No use to do it now without a solid foundation.

Noel on the other hand does need to get the best out of the group he has been given and keep moving the team forward. His leash will be much shorter as I'm not convinced he is Chevy's long term coach.
Agreed about Chevy's grinding negotiating style (except with Pavelec!).

I'm not a fan of Noel's personnel decisions, but I think he's actually got the team playing a tighter style of hockey than when they first got here. The system/strategy part of his coaching seems fine. It's the player usage, and to some extent the ability to motivate the team - he seemed as lost as the players during that losing streak that started when we dropped those big games to Washington. All those areas are an important part of coaching, though - so even if he gets a decent grade in "Strategy" I think he's failing "Personnel Decisions" and isn't great in "Motivation".

Gm0ney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2013, 09:40 PM
  #319
boanst
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 140
vCash: 590
Wow, this is certainly a fun read. I have to wonder if an outsider that were completely unfamiliar with the Jets or their record were to keep up with all of this, what would they think the Jets record actually was, ignoring the posts that actually referred to the position in the standings.

I don't share the dreary position that many do here about the talent level of this team, but I do agree with the notion that its makeup/chemistry is a bit off. I found it interesting that from scoring production point of view how Year 1 and 2 were so different, despite the similar result. Year 1 we lacked a top line level of production while having it sprinkled throughout the roster, and last year we were pretty much a legit first line and a Kane and thats about it. That has to change; it isn't unique to us, but it has to change. I've learned so much about puck luck from Garrett that I'm writing off the Jokinen/Poni signings as bad puck luck and hoping that Frolik/Gooch results in some good puck luck this year. Either way, when LLW don't score, we can't win.

Claude Noel. I was done with the dude by about game 10 last year. I saw the writing on the wall that he won't be the guy to take the Jets to the promised land. The use of Jokinen and the 2nd line RW spot sealed it for me. The Burmi situation didn't help either, but I happened to look more at the fact that he was probably our best forward after the big 4, and not as good on Burmi but rather bad for our depth. Noel will hang himself this year if he doesn't shape up, and I just hope Chipman will let Chevy axe his guy.

Cheveldayoff. This one's a bit tougher to call. Sorry to the guys who like having an active GM, but he isn't it. Winnipeg may be a tough sell for the big name UFA's, but other GM's have shown that trades are out there. Chevy won't go faster than his glacial pace. That might not be a bad thing per se, but many of his best assets have entered their prime. I'm not a fan of the big contracts he has signed so far besides Kane's. Pavs and Enstrom's deals are what is hamstringing the cap management right now. Soon enough, we will be close to the cap with a team that will look pretty close to last year's, after an offseason where 2/3's (half maybe) of his inhereted contracts have expired. If we can't make the playoffs as a cap team, then someone's getting ******* fired.

Reading Holden's thoughts about blowing it all up initially scared me, but he's right. Its foolish to keep doing the same thing and expect different results. That doesn't mean the entire core needs to go, but it could be reshaped. Figuring out which guys to move is the tricky part. Well sign me up for the deal that moves Buff and Pavelec. I still think Buff's got value, and I'll live through backup goaltenders for awhile to push Pavs off this team. It just frustrates me to talk to people to work with and friends and family who think Pavs is our savior. Any reasonable Jet talk I have ends when that comes up.

boanst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2013, 09:17 AM
  #320
JusticeBeaver
@gar****al
 
JusticeBeaver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Charlottetown
Country: Canada
Posts: 456
vCash: 500
Habs fan coming in peace
I also had season tickets to ice caps when I lived in St. John's, so lets start there!

Got to admit, it got me more in depth with your organization and while I saw and read blips of hope, uhm, how to put this. From management, coaching, drafting, and team make up, the outlook is very....foggy.

I think its great that you guys have got your team back. It's a long time coming and I'm sure that I don't have to tell any of you that. For me it feels as if there's too much of a lingering feel from the Thrashers. Now would be the time to create your own identity, before committing large amounts of salary to players.

Forget about Burmistrov, an issue beaten to death over the years is no longer a worry. Scheifele looks good to step in and play a sheltered role to not hamper his development, but outside of that (I dont know much about Trouba) I think its time to strip down, acquire picks/prospects, and ride it out until prospects are ready to graduate. I think it's a great way to do things, take a small step backwards now to rid yourself of mediocrity in order to build a contender down the road.

Telegin looked decent before he got injuried, the wheels on this kid was amazing, blowing past D with ease, such a natural skater, but still raw and is a project for sure. Loved Redmonds game. Postma, good skillset, too soft, constantly avoided contact that resulted in 2 on 1s. O'Dell is a go to guy, can count many times when he looked so frustrated with the way a game is was going and took it upon himself to take the puck to the net, great hands.

So long story short, sign and trade bogo to habs pls

JusticeBeaver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2013, 09:49 AM
  #321
ps241
2.6% chance
 
ps241's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 9,041
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by JusticeBeaver View Post
Habs fan coming in peace
I also had season tickets to ice caps when I lived in St. John's, so lets start there!

Got to admit, it got me more in depth with your organization and while I saw and read blips of hope, uhm, how to put this. From management, coaching, drafting, and team make up, the outlook is very....foggy.

I think its great that you guys have got your team back. It's a long time coming and I'm sure that I don't have to tell any of you that. For me it feels as if there's too much of a lingering feel from the Thrashers. Now would be the time to create your own identity, before committing large amounts of salary to players.

Forget about Burmistrov, an issue beaten to death over the years is no longer a worry. Scheifele looks good to step in and play a sheltered role to not hamper his development, but outside of that (I dont know much about Trouba) I think its time to strip down, acquire picks/prospects, and ride it out until prospects are ready to graduate. I think it's a great way to do things, take a small step backwards now to rid yourself of mediocrity in order to build a contender down the road.

Telegin looked decent before he got injuried, the wheels on this kid was amazing, blowing past D with ease, such a natural skater, but still raw and is a project for sure. Loved Redmonds game. Postma, good skillset, too soft, constantly avoided contact that resulted in 2 on 1s. O'Dell is a go to guy, can count many times when he looked so frustrated with the way a game is was going and took it upon himself to take the puck to the net, great hands.

So long story short, sign and trade bogo to habs pls
Interesting post and thanks for dropping by........good feedback on the St John's contingent. Will be interested to see how our new crop does on the rock this year....that is the first wave of TNSE type players (Lowry, Lipon, Kichton, possibly Scheif and Trouba)

ps241 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2013, 12:17 PM
  #322
Repoman
Registered User
 
Repoman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Winnipeg, MB
Country: Canada
Posts: 666
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by JusticeBeaver View Post
I think its great that you guys have got your team back. It's a long time coming and I'm sure that I don't have to tell any of you that. For me it feels as if there's too much of a lingering feel from the Thrashers. Now would be the time to create your own identity, before committing large amounts of salary to players.

Forget about Burmistrov, an issue beaten to death over the years is no longer a worry. Scheifele looks good to step in and play a sheltered role to not hamper his development, but outside of that (I dont know much about Trouba) I think its time to strip down, acquire picks/prospects, and ride it out until prospects are ready to graduate. I think it's a great way to do things, take a small step backwards now to rid yourself of mediocrity in order to build a contender down the road.
I think most of us agree with you to an extent. Unfortunately this is not an expansion team and as such there is pressure to get to the playoffs asap. I really think True North is doing a good job. They are starting to cut some of that "Thrashers feel" and i think you will see even more in the coming year and next off-season.

I remain patient and if we don't make the playoffs again this year I won't be that upset as long as the team on the ice is improving and growing. As a season ticket holder I do expect results sooner rather than later. This will be a very big year for the Jets. No more potential excuses (team moved, no training camp, crazy travel etc.).

Repoman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2013, 06:29 AM
  #323
JetBlue420
Rookie User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 41
vCash: 500
pretty sure, TNSE said they have a 5 year plan.. this is year 3.

Guess we will see, they should improve but by how much is anyones guess.

JetBlue420 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2013, 11:53 AM
  #324
garret9
AKA#VitoCorrelationi
 
garret9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 9,063
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by JetBlue420 View Post
pretty sure, TNSE said they have a 5 year plan.. this is year 3.

Guess we will see, they should improve but by how much is anyones guess.
I thought TNSE never actually said that (I've even asked a few media types around too), but it came up as people speculating towards Chevy's contract length.

garret9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:26 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.