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Do teams have a legitimate claim on their predecessors' championships/records?

View Poll Results: Can teams claim predecessor teams' records/championships as their own?
Yes 15 20.55%
No 58 79.45%
Voters: 73. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-13-2013, 12:56 PM
  #1
FuriousSenator
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Do teams have a legitimate claim on their predecessors' championships/records?

An interesting on-going discussion in the Sens forum concerns whether the current Senators (1992 - present) have a claim on the Stanley Cup championships/banners of the ORIGINAL senators (turn of the century till the 1930s) as part of their history and team record book.

Just wanted to throw this to the main board as to whether you think modern incarnations of older franchises (or even two different franchises in the same city) can have a claim on the championships/records/stats of their predecessor teams.

In other words, does a team like the modern Senators have the right to claim the old Senators' banners as part of their own? Or should this be left as a historical reminder of older teams in the city?

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Old
07-13-2013, 12:58 PM
  #2
Samzilla
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Only if the Canucks can say they won the Cup in 1915...by beating the Sens.

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Old
07-13-2013, 12:58 PM
  #3
blueowl2
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I believe Hartford and Carolina are 1

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Old
07-13-2013, 12:59 PM
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CaptainGiggles
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Only losers revel in old glory, the future is where it's at

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07-13-2013, 12:59 PM
  #5
Chip Chipperson
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No. I'm a sens STH and I find those banners in Canadian Tire Center to be a joke. There was 60 years between the two teams for gods sake. The original Senators team folded in St. Louis. The Ottawa Senators have 0 cups in my opinion.

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Old
07-13-2013, 01:05 PM
  #6
Ed Wood
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The city of Ottawa has Cups but they weren't won by the current franchise. Our expansion twins in Tampa Bay have a Cup. We don't.

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07-13-2013, 01:06 PM
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FuriousSenator
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The only time I can think it's legitimate is if a team folds or takes a few seasons off while it finds a new owner/revenue stream, but the team is still "activated". One example for me that seems okay is the Montreal Alouettes/Concordes situation.

Actually even then, I have a bit of a tough time connecting the 1986 Alouettes and the 1996 Alouettes.

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Old
07-13-2013, 01:09 PM
  #8
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Can they? Of course but it's embarrassing in my opinion.

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Old
07-13-2013, 01:13 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdTheSabresFan View Post
The only time I can think it's legitimate is if a team folds or takes a few seasons off while it finds a new owner/revenue stream, but the team is still "activated". One example for me that seems okay is the Montreal Alouettes/Concordes situation.

Actually even then, I have a bit of a tough time connecting the 1986 Alouettes and the 1996 Alouettes.
I believe that the NHL actually bought the Eagles franchise and never folded them. Ottawa also, reportedly, got a certificate of reinstatement from the league.

Also, on basically the same idea, Phoenix fans aren't cheering for the same team that played in Winnipeg. The fans and the city are a much bigger part of the team then the piece of paper that say the new owners "bought" the history to that team

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Old
07-13-2013, 01:14 PM
  #10
Shinsuke Nakamura
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If they simply relocated, yes.

If a team folded and a new team was formed with the same name years later, absolutely not.

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Old
07-13-2013, 01:22 PM
  #11
Habs88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seth Rollins View Post
If they simply relocated, yes.

If a team folded and a new team was formed with the same name years later, absolutely not.
Exactly if they hadn't called themselves the senators there would be no relation whatsoever to that team. The answer is no

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Old
07-13-2013, 03:14 PM
  #12
LEAFS FAN 4 EVER
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Even though the current version of the Winnipeg Jets still has the records from the Atlanta Thrashers like Ilya Kovalchuk being the franchise leader in goals and points, you don't see a 2007 Southeast Division Championship banner at the MTS Centre.

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Old
07-13-2013, 07:17 PM
  #13
Dolph Ziggler
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Relocated teams can claim history and cups in my opinion.

However the new Winnipeg Jets cannot claim the history of the old Winnipeg Jets. That belongs to Phoenix.

Just my $.02

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07-13-2013, 07:19 PM
  #14
SouthJerseyRanger
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No. Acknowledge the history, but if they are really flying banners at Scotiabank Center... c'mon...

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Old
07-13-2013, 11:40 PM
  #15
Senacus Maximus
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No.

The banners in the arena should be seen as no more than a recognition of the success of the original franchise.

Coming from a Sens fan, the Ottawa Senators have 0 cups.

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Old
07-14-2013, 12:37 AM
  #16
TaLoN
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The only way history is retained is within franchise. A team that moves, takes it's history with it. A team that folds loses it.

Today's Senators have nothing to do with the 1930's Senators. That history is not theirs.

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Old
07-14-2013, 01:31 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Wood View Post
The city of Ottawa has Cups but they weren't won by the current franchise. Our expansion twins in Tampa Bay have a Cup. We don't.
This.

I have zero problem with teams honoring past NHL, or even non-NHL, franchises that played in their market. If the Sens want to keep having banners up for the original Senators Stanley Cup victories or if the Jets decide they want to have the old Jets retired numbers still retired as a way to honor the hockey history of their market, I have no problems with that.

If they try to claim it as their own though, as if it's the same franchise with just a prolonged break, then that I find laughable. The current Senators have 0 Cups and the current Jets do not have a connection with Bobby Hull.

That being said, I think that relocated teams should just let go of their past from an "honoring in the arena" perspective. Fans in the new market don't give two ****s about what happened in their old markets, so if the Whalers had won a Stanley Cup, for instance, I actually would have a problem with the Hurricanes having a championship banner up in Raleigh.

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07-14-2013, 01:33 AM
  #18
ottawa
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Ottawa really has no cups, those banners need to be removed asap imo

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Old
07-14-2013, 02:01 AM
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Russia does not get the medals of USSR, even though they were mostly Russians.

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07-14-2013, 07:32 AM
  #20
DaveG
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There should be absolutely no issue with a team doing something to honor the franchises or cities hockey past. But there shouldn't be championship or retired number banners feigning association with the current franchise. It's like the Carolina Hurricanes are doing, there's absolutely zero issue with honoring #9 and not allowing anyone else to wear it, but the moment they put up a Howe #9 banner and a 1987 Adams Division Champions banner every single fanbase in the league has the absolute right to say "********, you guys aren't that team anymore".

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Old
07-14-2013, 09:09 AM
  #21
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I wouldn't do that but if they want to do that I will only state my case and then accept whatever they want to do.

I know that I will always look at those two teams as completely different organizations even though they had the same name.

The team was moved to St Louis and then folded, this team really has no connection to that team other than using the same name.

Do the Winnipeg Jets of today have the right to claim any of the old Jets records or does the Phoenix Coyotes have that right? I say Phoenix does.

It all comes down to what they want to do and I am not going to make a big deal about it either way.

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07-14-2013, 10:51 AM
  #22
HarveySpecter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ottawa View Post
Ottawa really has no cups, those banners need to be removed asap imo
No they don't; there is no problem in recognizing the history Ottawa had in the past. It's a part of our city. I have no problem saying the franchise has 0 cups but that's no reason to forget that the city captured some of the earliest championships recorded.

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Old
07-14-2013, 11:02 AM
  #23
Trafalgar Law
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Oops voted assuming you meant a relocated franchise like Hartford-Carolina. In this scenario, no.

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Old
07-14-2013, 01:13 PM
  #24
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Franchise? No way. City? For sure.

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Old
07-14-2013, 01:27 PM
  #25
ck26
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Who cares? That said, a history belongs to the fans and the city, not the corporate entity.

Bobby Hull is a Winnipeg Jet, not a Phoenix Coyote.
Atlanta Flames history belongs to the fans of Atlanta, not Calgary.
I respect some of the great years in Minneapolis, but I don't want the North Stars Campbell Cup banners / retired numbers in Dallas ... the Wild can have them.

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