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[EDM/STL] David Perron for Magnus Paajarvi + 2nd '14 | Part 2

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Old
07-13-2013, 04:33 PM
  #501
frag2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MessierII View Post
Why are people so upset? Paajarvi was a nice kid but was absolutely a disappointment in the NHL so far and you have to give to get. Perron is more skilled, better defensively, grittier and only 3 years older. He's also a bit of a pest something we've sorely lacked.
This.

While he may succeed on another team, and good for him if he does, he sure didn't look like he would here.

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07-13-2013, 08:11 PM
  #502
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Originally Posted by Somnii View Post
This is another MacTavish move that I'm going to have to adopt a wait-and-see approach towards, although I'm initially leaning towards liking it.

The Oilers are, as of this moment, a better team thanks to this trade, but I fully expect that opinions on this deal will sway in due time, especially if/when the Oilers miss out on the playoffs again this coming season, and Paajarvi continues to improve.

Perron is quite the talent, but he can be an incredibly frustrating player to watch at times; I do believe that he's going to be a favourite whipping boy around here in short order. Hopefully, I'm proven wrong.
The only way to evaluate a trade is by these criteria (i present it in a fair/chronological order)

a) what they have done so far; only fair if you are using recent data that can help you get an average, based upon what you have seen, not on potential and/or hypothetical situations

- (ex. so and so hit 8 posts; hes way better, or -- he played with anemic players (while this is second last one is fun to draw in arguments for certain players - if so and so was so good what did they lack to not automatically be put to play with better players)

- or using brief examples where a player played a style he doesn't consistently play

In this first evaluation make sure to include injuries that could change future stats.

b) What type of system or function/role that player played for x team; defensive, pp, pk, ect.

c) in the last evaluation you can include who the player played with - how good were they, why was that player/line put in that role, did player have character issues, conditioning issues, mental toughness/weakness , physical toughness/weaknesses, ect.

Evaluation for Magnus Paajarvi

A) Weaknesses: Magnus has shown in his first and three seasons he can score, he needs to play with better players who see the game at a high level, has to work on his shot, apply more toughness, be less of a perimeter player, work on 1 on 1 play.

Strengths
undeniable speed, and applied with strength could be a real asset. Also if used more his size can be used along the boards with great effectiveness, Defensive awareness has been touted about him; while its good its not yet an elite level it will get there, what makes it effective is just body positioning

B) has been used more as a checker, because he does have good defensive instincts. He has scored goals but he hasn't been able to do it without elite or lesser players.

C) Magnus has played with some real scrubs like Belanger, and unmotivated Hemsky; briefly. What you will get is a player who triess hard, and gives everything he can. Excellent character, and with a demotion a year ago there was a overwhelming amount of praise for maturity; in comparison to fellow teammate Omark who was vocal about his demotion. Physical/Mental toughness are see evidently. Conditioning isn't a problem, and he could add even more weight to his frame.

That's my evaluation - as for Perron if someone from St. Louis board would like to do an evaluation of him, I would be very thankful (i could only base it on a handful games last year, and the playoffs)


Last edited by BlowbyBlow: 07-13-2013 at 08:18 PM.
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07-13-2013, 08:30 PM
  #503
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I wouldn't be surprised if Perron put up 60+ points next year and Pajaarvi ended up playing 4th line minutes or in the AHL.

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07-13-2013, 08:30 PM
  #504
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but PRV has also played with skilled players too.

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07-13-2013, 08:35 PM
  #505
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Perron is just a feisty *****. I don't mean it in a bad way, that's just how he is on the ice. He doesn't give a **** about the other team's goalies, and will go the extra mile just to piss you off. He's not as good at being a pest like Marchand or Shaw, but he'll definitely get under your skin. You guys will like him, trust me, but he's also the type of player that can be scapegoated easily. I've always caught plenty of Oilers games since I live in Alberta, but now I have even more incentive to watch them. Can't wait to see what Perron can do with more offensively-oriented teammates.

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07-13-2013, 08:40 PM
  #506
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BOLD MacT Trade View Post
I wouldn't be surprised if Perron put up 60+ points next year and Pajaarvi ended up playing 4th line minutes or in the AHL.
If he's going to play in the AHL they need to send him down right at the start of the year, he's only a few games away from being eligible for waivers. I doubt the GM is going to play a player in the AHL that he just traded Perron for.. fans want to see something tangible. I doubt MPS plays another game in the AHL.

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Originally Posted by GoofSlashFoig View Post
Perron is just a feisty *****. I don't mean it in a bad way, that's just how he is on the ice. He doesn't give a **** about the other team's goalies, and will go the extra mile just to piss you off. He's not as good at being a pest like Marchand or Shaw, but he'll definitely get under your skin. You guys will like him, trust me, but he's also the type of player that can be scapegoated easily. I've always caught plenty of Oilers games since I live in Alberta, but now I have even more incentive to watch them. Can't wait to see what Perron can do with more offensively-oriented teammates.
This is one of the things I'm most excited about when it comes to Perron. He rattles people, it's great.

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07-13-2013, 09:57 PM
  #507
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Originally Posted by Psycho Dad View Post
I'm looking forward to the GDTs next season. No more abundance of pump-him-up "good play by Paajarvi" posts every night. Now all we need is for Gagner to accept a reasonable contract, maintain his scoring clip from last season, and we can eliminate the beat-him-down "Snowpants" posts as well.
okay you have never liked Prv!

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Originally Posted by Psycho Dad View Post
Too many infractions Also uncalled for.

I'm happy saying we traded a 3LW with possible 2LW upside, for a 2LW. It really doesn't need to be any more complicated than that.
Perron has 6 seasons under the belt and average 0.47 ppg he slided back last season from a potentional brakeout season the year before big time.

I would say that is a bit Gagner warning about this guy when i checked up his career, started young in nhl, but hasnt got the break out yet.

Prv coming from his best season in every stat column, is 3 year younger with 1 full season and 2 halfes and was not used to small rinks before in his youth, hes alot bigger and starts to using his big body, when perron seems to be more of a playmaking puckhog guy.

So the fit for the oilers is very ?, when we have a weak 2c.
You also forgot a 2 round pick, who can be pretty low and 3.8 million against not more then 2 million for prv.

We got the best player for the moment but maybee not the best fit, if perron continues with his 0.5 ppg average its not a good trade.

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07-13-2013, 10:05 PM
  #508
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Has Paajarvi shown in any league to have enough scoring for a top 6 role? In the AHL he only put up 0.63ppg. I don't think he will be a top 6 winger, but a really good 3rd liner/PK guy.

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07-14-2013, 02:27 AM
  #509
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Perron is in town . Tweeted asking where the best sushi place is.

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07-14-2013, 03:26 AM
  #510
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Originally Posted by McClelland View Post
okay you have never liked Prv!



Perron has 6 seasons under the belt and average 0.47 ppg he slided back last season from a potentional brakeout season the year before big time.

I would say that is a bit Gagner warning about this guy when i checked up his career, started young in nhl, but hasnt got the break out yet.

Prv coming from his best season in every stat column, is 3 year younger with 1 full season and 2 halfes and was not used to small rinks before in his youth, hes alot bigger and starts to using his big body, when perron seems to be more of a playmaking puckhog guy.

So the fit for the oilers is very ?, when we have a weak 2c.
You also forgot a 2 round pick, who can be pretty low and 3.8 million against not more then 2 million for prv.

We got the best player for the moment but maybee not the best fit, if perron continues with his 0.5 ppg average its not a good trade.
I'll bet you PRV scores less than his rookie year next year.

A LOT of his goals this year were straight up flukes that can't be replicated. He needs skilled guys banking pucks off of him to get on the score sheet.

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07-14-2013, 05:29 AM
  #511
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I like this trade. Perron is already what Paajarvi can become one day. Still 25 years old, signed for 3 more years at a good rate. If MacT can somehow turn Gagner, hemsky and one of Marincin/Musil into a bigger stronger 2C and a quality 3d line winger, this team will be well on its way.

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07-14-2013, 08:17 AM
  #512
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I think Perron will become a fan favorite and score 25 to 30 goals. I don't remember him getting much PK time and Hitchcock juggled lines for various reasons so I wouldn't say Perron had regular line mates. DP got a lot of PP time. One thing Perron didn't have in St Louis was a play maker at center. Backes is a converted RW and Berglund had less than 10 assists. (hard to believe) Perron has become a bit of a scape goat for the Blues getting eliminated in the first round which is not deserved. Most Blues fans will be rooting for him.

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07-14-2013, 08:43 AM
  #513
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thinlizzy View Post
Perron is in town . Tweeted asking where the best sushi place is.
No he's in his hometown. Only curious where the good sushi spots at for his upcoming season.

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07-14-2013, 10:26 AM
  #514
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Seems like a good dude, already tweeting back at the fans.

I like that.

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07-14-2013, 12:28 PM
  #515
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MPS did the huge misstake of leaving SEL 1 year too early, he should have stayed another year with Lander in Timrå. If he did that, this trade would never had happend.

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07-14-2013, 12:38 PM
  #516
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Give PRV 2 more seasons and he'll be a solid two way 40 point LW for the Blues. I have no issue giving PRV up for Perron because we can't wait for him to get to his potential, we need to start winning.

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07-14-2013, 01:07 PM
  #517
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Originally Posted by Everlasting View Post
MPS did the huge misstake of leaving SEL 1 year too early, he should have stayed another year with Lander in Timrå. If he did that, this trade would never had happend.
He's still improving, which is why I think so many Oiler fans are disappointed to see him go. I expect MPS to have a good, long career in the NHL as a player who plays a well-rounded game and can contribute in all situations.

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07-14-2013, 01:23 PM
  #518
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Originally Posted by B A T M A N View Post
I'll bet you PRV scores less than his rookie year next year.

A LOT of his goals this year were straight up flukes that can't be replicated. He needs skilled guys banking pucks off of him to get on the score sheet.
Doubt that! If lined with Berglund as a C, he can think more offensive and not be scared to get in the doghouse because of lack of defence.
He has seemed scared so many games to continue the offensive plays and focused more of homework and dont take risks.

I agree though that Prv never will be a great scorer, but 15+25 is good enough for a checking liner with 2 line upside.

But my post wasnt about that, it was a questionmark if perron is a good fit for us(because we need a power-winger with Gags as 2 C). and if we overpayed with that 2 rounder + perrons contract. For 3.8 he would put up 60 p seasons and doesnt suffer from Gags flaws.

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07-14-2013, 01:31 PM
  #519
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If MPS couldn't break out playing with Gagner and Hemsky I have my doubts that Bergland is going to be the one to turn that ship around. I think MPS will be a routine 3rd liner scoring in the mid 30's and that's not a bad thing at all.

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07-14-2013, 01:32 PM
  #520
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I enjoyed tracking Magnus' improvements.

This trade won't end up as a HUGE regret for us...but...its not a huge step forward either.

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07-14-2013, 01:40 PM
  #521
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I enjoyed tracking Magnus' improvements.

This trade won't end up as a HUGE regret for us...but...its not a huge step forward either.
I like Perron but I'm if the goal was to add more size and grit to the top 6 than he's only a marginal improvement there. Add to that the Oilers traded one of, if not their best bargaining chip to get Perron and you see why I have mixed emotions about this deal. Yes, they did get the better player in return, and in that context they won the deal, but in terms of the big picture I'm not sure it was the best course of action available.

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07-14-2013, 01:45 PM
  #522
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
If MPS couldn't break out playing with Gagner and Hemsky I have my doubts that Bergland is going to be the one to turn that ship around. I think MPS will be a routine 3rd liner scoring in the mid 30's and that's not a bad thing at all.
Because with Gags and Hemsky he needed to focus on defence! Berglund can win draws, great defensive and have offensive skills, prv can let loose his offensive game more with him.

Berglund also has a better ppg average then Perron in Nhl!

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07-14-2013, 01:49 PM
  #523
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Because with Gags and Hemsky he needed to focus on defence! Berglund can win draws, great defensive and have offensive skills, prv can let loose his offensive game more with him.

Berglund also has a better ppg average then Perron in Nhl!
MPS doesn't really have an offensive game though. I guess we'll see, but if he's going to be counted on to be the one to provide offense on his line, prepare to be disappointed. Good secondary type player, MPS did most of his scoring with Omark and Gagner and most of those were tap ins.

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07-14-2013, 01:55 PM
  #524
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MPS doesn't really have an offensive game though. I guess we'll see, but if he's going to be counted on to be the one to provide offense on his line, prepare to be disappointed. Good secondary type player, MPS did most of his scoring with Omark and Gagner and most of those were tap ins.
Exactly.
Paajarvi is not a finisher....never has been. Thats not his MO.

If Paajarvi can play with courage on a consistent basis (which is still a question mark) he can be a solid 3rd line NHL player. He is not there yet so these posters suggesting that he is a 2nd line player are way off the mark.

Just because the Oilers tried him in the top 6 doesn't mean he is a legit top 6 option.


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07-14-2013, 01:59 PM
  #525
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I like Perron but I'm if the goal was to add more size and grit to the top 6 than he's only a marginal improvement there. Add to that the Oilers traded one of, if not their best bargaining chip to get Perron and you see why I have mixed emotions about this deal. Yes, they did get the better player in return, and in that context they won the deal, but in terms of the big picture I'm not sure it was the best course of action available.
Getting a player like Perron for MPS is good asset management... he's a clear upgrade at this stage. MPS was going to be in a top 6 LW role and it's hard to see how Perron wouldn't be better in that spot for the Oilers than Magnus.

I do see your point though... arguably a better trade "may" have been to use Magnus as part of a package to acquire a top 4 dman or a bigger C which would possibly allow Gagner to be dealt for another asset... maybe to then fill the hole on LW that would be left by trading Magnus.

Those are all theoreticals to some extent though... I don't doubt that MacT WAS on the line to every GM trying to make deals to fill other obvious holes... he even said that he'd basically made more calls to GM's that was probably even advisable.

I have no reason to believe that if there was indeed a better deal on the table for Magnus that would allow them to upgrade elsewhere... he would have done that deal... but this was a solid opportunity that the Blues offered. The Blues had to move a salary and body for cap reasons and MacT was there to take advantage of it. Solid trade and maybe all those calls and lines of communication he opened earlier did pay off.

My bet is there is more than a few GM's who would have loved Perron on their team and are seeing this trade as a clear win for MacT.

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