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Old
07-13-2013, 03:54 PM
  #251
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Originally Posted by Thrice View Post
Lombardi with his paranoia of industrial espionage has targeted any fan that looks like they are shooting video. If anyone sees you filming, a redcoat or staff will ask you to stop.

I'm really curious to see if this anti-video stance continues through the big camp.
Wait....seriously......?

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07-13-2013, 03:57 PM
  #252
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the anti video stance tells me that they are worried about or have previously caught Scouts from other teams video taping drills in the players

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07-13-2013, 03:58 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by cnshockey View Post
Wait....seriously......?
Yeah. No filming allowed. Still photography is okay.

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07-13-2013, 04:42 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by The Dingo View Post
the anti video stance tells me that they are worried about or have previously caught Scouts from other teams video taping drills in the players
If you look around this board you'll see video from most every other camp. Hell there's already already a highlight reel of Jonathan Drouins first camp experience.

Seems a bit overboard on the Kings part. Every one of the kids that attends camp will have in-game video shot of them as soon as their respective season starts.

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07-13-2013, 04:47 PM
  #255
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Not allowing filming at camps is kind of a common practice. I know we haven't done it but it was one of those had to happen sooner or later. As for the scout thing being a part of it I can tell you that it would be very surprising if it were true.

Scouts pretty much have Carte Blanche during these sort of camps. Now agents on the other hand it can get pretty sticky having them around prospect camps.

Teams throw out a bunch of reasons for why they don't want their prospect sessions filmed but to me it is always just sort of nuts to do so. If anything these are the sort of things that you want to allow your fans to be able to film and have full access to so that they can continue to be interested in the teams conntinued success.

No biggie.

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07-13-2013, 04:55 PM
  #256
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Tampa clearly doesn't care. So much video of Drouin making the rest of their prospects look absolutely stupid. But I guess I'm okay with it. Means our secret weapon (Kevin Gravel) stays a secret.

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07-13-2013, 05:03 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by cnshockey View Post
Tampa clearly doesn't care. So much video of Drouin making the rest of their prospects look absolutely stupid. But I guess I'm okay with it. Means our secret weapon (Kevin Gravel) stays a secret.
Exactly.

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07-13-2013, 05:07 PM
  #258
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Lombardi was personally going up to a lot of people that he thought was filming camp. I guess his drills are specially formulated and he didn't want others to see.

That and there was something with the fighting guy that they seemed to not want anyone to know about.

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07-13-2013, 08:08 PM
  #259
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I filmed TC back at the Iceoplex and then TC and RC in El Segundo in the early '00s. I forget what year it was, but I showed up to film the training camp scrimmage like usual and the red coats made me stop and that was that. This was when AM was still coaching so the no video thing has been around...maybe it's new for it at development camp though.

I think I've been to one camp since then. Used to be great to go and have only 10 fans there watching. It's great for hockey in LA that they have to hand out tickets for the training camp scrimmages now and whatnot, but it is just not worth the drive at this point. It's so irrational, but I was so pissed when they made me stop filming...it was like..."I would drive to Iceoplex in North Hills from Fountain Valley to watch training camp with 5 people and now I can't even get a seat because the place is full of 6 year olds who have no idea what's going on!!" But hey...I'm not going anywhere as far as Kings fandom goes so it's good for the organization to have so much interest now.

I did get some good footage though from one of the rookie camps with Brennan, Flinn and Parros. Flinn TKOd some guy and I got what I believe to be Parros's first legit fight of his career against Brennan as Parros was fresh out of Princeton and hadn't played in the A yet: Kip handled him easily. I never would of believed that Parros would be the one to go on and have a long career as a HW after that fight.

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07-13-2013, 08:27 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
Yes.

Well Frolov with a mean streak and a drive the net attitude. That and I think Max his the potential to become a better than average dangler but it isn't his strongest attribute.


That said Max definitely plays with more fire than Frolov ever really did.
As much as I like Kitsyn, Frolov had more offensive talent in his right foot than Kitsyn does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cnshockey View Post
Tampa clearly doesn't care. So much video of Drouin making the rest of their prospects look absolutely stupid. But I guess I'm okay with it. Means our secret weapon (Kevin Gravel) stays a secret.
Not to defend Tampa here, because I think this whole non-taping thing is dumb too, but Tampa has a legit reason for marketing purposes to tout the 3rd overall pick as some sort of offensive wizard, especially in the wake of parting ways with Lecavalier, the greatest Lightning of all time. It benefits them a lot to showcase Drouin to the fanbase, considering there's a real good chance he'll make the team out of camp.

We don't have that sort of player at rookie camp, and the closest player we do have is Toffoli, who has already played before the home fans anyways.

But, as I said, I don't agree with the non-taping rule anyways.

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07-13-2013, 10:18 PM
  #261
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Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
As much as I like Kitsyn, Frolov had more offensive talent in his right foot than Kitsyn does.



Not to defend Tampa here, because I think this whole non-taping thing is dumb too, but Tampa has a legit reason for marketing purposes to tout the 3rd overall pick as some sort of offensive wizard, especially in the wake of parting ways with Lecavalier, the greatest Lightning of all time. It benefits them a lot to showcase Drouin to the fanbase, considering there's a real good chance he'll make the team out of camp.

We don't have that sort of player at rookie camp, and the closest player we do have is Toffoli, who has already played before the home fans anyways.

But, as I said, I don't agree with the non-taping rule anyways.


I completely disagree and hope that we see Max get a chance to prove you wrong on this one. Frolov had more skill in the corners and softer hands but then his shortcoming was a lack of focus at times and the fact that he was a streaky scorer at every level including the NHL.

Kitsyn is more of a constant hard driving performer.

I suppose a comparison based on MK making it which he still has to do but assuming he does would be a fresher Mule Franzen. Frolov was more of a skill type and that alone where Max is more of a hard nosed (for a russian) grinding sniper who likes the front of the net almost to a fault.

So I wouldn't say that Frolov had more offensive talent than Kitsyn, different absolutely but more not at all.

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07-13-2013, 10:28 PM
  #262
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
I completely disagree and hope that we see Max get a chance to prove you wrong on this one. Frolov had more skill in the corners and softer hands but then his shortcoming was a lack of focus at times and the fact that he was a streaky scorer at every level including the NHL.

Kitsyn is more of a constant hard driving performer.

I suppose a comparison based on MK making it which he still has to do but assuming he does would be a fresher Mule Franzen. Frolov was more of a skill type and that alone where Max is more of a hard nosed (for a russian) grinding sniper who likes the front of the net almost to a fault.

So I wouldn't say that Frolov had more offensive talent than Kitsyn, different absolutely but more not at all.
The bolded is exactly what I mean, minus the use of the word 'sniper'.

Kitsyn is a poor man's Franzen IMO. He'll be good for 15 G, 30 points a season and be willing to play in the traffic and screen goalies. Holmstrom might be a better example of Kitsyn in the offensive zone.

I'd be glad to be proven wrong on this one, I just don't believe I am. Kitsyn is still a guy I've been routing for since day one, but he does not (IMO) hold the same level of skill Frolov had.

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07-13-2013, 10:32 PM
  #263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
The bolded is exactly what I mean, minus the use of the word 'sniper'.

Kitsyn is a poor man's Franzen IMO. He'll be good for 15 G, 30 points a season and be willing to play in the traffic and screen goalies. Holmstrom might be a better example of Kitsyn in the offensive zone.

I'd be glad to be proven wrong on this one, I just don't believe I am. Kitsyn is still a guy I've been routing for since day one, but he does not (IMO) hold the same level of skill Frolov had.
Fair enough. I think you will pleasantly surprised by Max's O development. I see him as a 20/20 guy who might give a little more in his two way play and willingness to hit.

Time will tell. Max does have sniper skills. It isn't his forte but his hands have gotten better and better and he can dangle a bit now. He still has to make the team but if or when he does I won't be surprised to see him anchor our 2nd line LW for 5 years without a problem.

Here's to hoping anyways.

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07-13-2013, 10:36 PM
  #264
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I hope so as well.

That said, if 20/20 is what is anchoring our wing, that's not really that good. One point every second game isn't something to write home about for a scoring line winger and really just reinforces my point that Kitsyn doesn't have Frolov level skill. I mean how many times did Frolov top 20/20 in LA, and did so during some very lean years when he was (arguably) the best Kings forward after Kopitar.

If he's on the 2nd line for 5 years, he'll (likely) play with either Kopitar or Richards (most likely Richards and Carter actually). 20/20 should be a minimum for someone on that line. It's why we're doing ongoing auditions for that role still, because 20/20 (and less) won't cut it.

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07-13-2013, 10:48 PM
  #265
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Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
I hope so as well.

That said, if 20/20 is what is anchoring our wing, that's not really that good. One point every second game isn't something to write home about for a scoring line winger and really just reinforces my point that Kitsyn doesn't have Frolov level skill. I mean how many times did Frolov top 20/20 in LA, and did so during some very lean years when he was (arguably) the best Kings forward after Kopitar.

If he's on the 2nd line for 5 years, he'll (likely) play with either Kopitar or Richards (most likely Richards and Carter actually). 20/20 should be a minimum for someone on that line. It's why we're doing ongoing auditions for that role still, because 20/20 (and less) won't cut it.
I think if you put MK on the same team with the same system that Frolov played on that you would see similar results for Max and watch Frolov be moved off the team before the end of the first season. Frolov was a solid player but nowhere near the type of two way player that he would need to be make our team today.

It is just too different of a time and too different of a team to get a truly exacting comparison but I would say that under todays circumstances a 20/20 second line LW would be very good for us. Look at what we have done with significantly less than that up to this point.

I am not perfectly sold on Max making the team just yet. I believe he will but I want to see his camp this year (not prospect playtime) before I am sold on where he is at 100% but I do believe that I am just as right about MK as I have been about others. If he makes the team and can play on our top 6 while popping in 20g it would give us a ton of balance and also make room for other upgrades.

I am thinking at this point that Max and Frattin can bounce back and forth from the 2nd to the 3rd line LW as needed for balance but think that both of them will or would score about the same amount of points at the end of it all.

Frattin is our penciled in 2nd line LW for next season and I think that we will all be satisfied with him scoring in the 40 point area for his first season with us. I would be equally happy with Max doing the same.

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07-14-2013, 01:10 AM
  #266
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If we can get 40 points out of anyone on that 2nd line lw it would be an improvement.

I watched a clip with bernstein and co discussing the Bernier trade. It was brought up that we should have picked up a top 6 LW for bernier (which perhaps Frattin could be) One chap mentioned that perhaps we didn't need a top 6 LW, we made it to the conference finals this year without penner putting up great numbers. They were suggesting that very few teams have 6 top 6 talents (due to the cap I suppose) many just had 4 top talents and a couple of powerforward/ grinder types.

I wonder if that is why we couldn't hang with Chicago. Too much pressure on Kopi, Carter, Brown, Williams and Richards. Not enough scoring support

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07-14-2013, 02:05 AM
  #267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thrice View Post
Lombardi with his paranoia of industrial espionage has targeted any fan that looks like they are shooting video. If anyone sees you filming, a redcoat or staff will ask you to stop.

I'm really curious to see if this anti-video stance continues through the big camp.
That's approaching NFL level of paranoia among coaches and management. We're also starting to see some of the assistants behind the benches with headsets on, covering their mouths as if they don't want to have their lips read as to what they're saying.

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07-14-2013, 06:16 AM
  #268
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
That's approaching NFL level of paranoia among coaches and management. We're also starting to see some of the assistants behind the benches with headsets on, covering their mouths as if they don't want to have their lips read as to what they're saying.
LOL True Story

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3018338

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07-14-2013, 11:43 AM
  #269
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can anyone post what Manchesters lineup looks like with all the new guys Forbort, Shore, Kitsyn, etc thanx.

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07-14-2013, 03:42 PM
  #270
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Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
I'd be glad to be proven wrong on this one, I just don't believe I am. Kitsyn is still a guy I've been routing for since day one, but he does not (IMO) hold the same level of skill Frolov had.
Routing or rooting?
If MK will put forth an effort better than Froloaf, and play the way the coaches want him to play, he doesn't need this "skill" Froloaf allegedly had.

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07-14-2013, 06:36 PM
  #271
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Routing or rooting?
If MK will put forth an effort better than Froloaf, and play the way the coaches want him to play, he doesn't need this "skill" Froloaf allegedly had.
Rooting. Thanks grammar police.

And if it was all about effort, then Colin Fraser or Kyle Clifford would be on that line already.

Btw, if you think a player can be nearly a point per game and score 30+ twice in a season without skill, then I think we can safely be done this conversation. There's no 'allegedly' about it.


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07-14-2013, 06:45 PM
  #272
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Not to defend Tampa here, because I think this whole non-taping thing is dumb too, but Tampa has a legit reason for marketing purposes to tout the 3rd overall pick as some sort of offensive wizard, especially in the wake of parting ways with Lecavalier, the greatest Lightning of all time. It benefits them a lot to showcase Drouin to the fanbase, considering there's a real good chance he'll make the team out of camp.

We don't have that sort of player at rookie camp, and the closest player we do have is Toffoli, who has already played before the home fans anyways.

But, as I said, I don't agree with the non-taping rule anyways.
I GET what you're saying...but I highly doubt Drouin is the reason they're allowing people to tape. I just think they don't care. And I don't get why Dean does honestly. It's not like there isn't footage that essentially every team could get on players. And **** - people posted all the drills we did on here. Just seems to me Dean's paranoid a bit whereas Tampa doesn't care.

Also, since his name was brought up, I wouldn't be surprised to see Drouin become the best offensive player out of this draft. The kid is just amazing to watch. I've said for a long time there was a big four, while a lot were still saying it was just the big two of MacKinnon and Jones. The top four players in this draft will all be FANTASTIC players.

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07-14-2013, 07:35 PM
  #273
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Originally Posted by cnshockey View Post
I GET what you're saying...but I highly doubt Drouin is the reason they're allowing people to tape. I just think they don't care. And I don't get why Dean does honestly. It's not like there isn't footage that essentially every team could get on players. And **** - people posted all the drills we did on here. Just seems to me Dean's paranoid a bit whereas Tampa doesn't care.

Also, since his name was brought up, I wouldn't be surprised to see Drouin become the best offensive player out of this draft. The kid is just amazing to watch. I've said for a long time there was a big four, while a lot were still saying it was just the big two of MacKinnon and Jones. The top four players in this draft will all be FANTASTIC players.
I agree, just saying there is an added benefit for Tampa, but the entire non-taping thing is dumb and counterproductive.

As for the draft, Drioun could very well be the best offensively (I still think the best offensive will be MacKinnon) but I think the best player overall will be Jones. How he fell to 4th I don't get.

And Barkov I'm not nearly as high on as others are. I see a cross between Holik and Jokinen (and not in their peak years either) as his peak which, while good, isn't 2nd overall good.

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07-14-2013, 08:47 PM
  #274
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Drouin is an amazing hockey player. But he brings the reputation of being a prima dona to the NHL with him and that comes from allot of his former team mates. He will fit in well in TB.

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07-14-2013, 09:50 PM
  #275
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
I think if you put MK on the same team with the same system that Frolov played on that you would see similar results for Max and watch Frolov be moved off the team before the end of the first season. Frolov was a solid player but nowhere near the type of two way player that he would need to be make our team today.

It is just too different of a time and too different of a team to get a truly exacting comparison but I would say that under todays circumstances a 20/20 second line LW would be very good for us. Look at what we have done with significantly less than that up to this point.

I am not perfectly sold on Max making the team just yet. I believe he will but I want to see his camp this year (not prospect playtime) before I am sold on where he is at 100% but I do believe that I am just as right about MK as I have been about others. If he makes the team and can play on our top 6 while popping in 20g it would give us a ton of balance and also make room for other upgrades.

I am thinking at this point that Max and Frattin can bounce back and forth from the 2nd to the 3rd line LW as needed for balance but think that both of them will or would score about the same amount of points at the end of it all.

Frattin is our penciled in 2nd line LW for next season and I think that we will all be satisfied with him scoring in the 40 point area for his first season with us. I would be equally happy with Max doing the same.
Gotta disagree here. There's no way guys like King or Penner would have a spot on the roster over a young Frolov. Heck Frolov is still scoring very well in the KHL

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