HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Offseason Thread Part IV - Let's Make A Deal

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-14-2013, 11:32 PM
  #126
Kershaw
 
Kershaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country:
Posts: 25,519
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by CM Lundqvist View Post
He's a better skater and puck-handler already.
Skater probably, disagree about puckhandler 100%. MDZ has skills the other dmen on the team can only dream about.

Quote:
Wait, Skinner with 2 concussions isn't damaged goods but Staal is? Makes no sense considering they had the same amount of concussions, that's even if Staal had one from the most recent one. I would assume he did. Skinner has come back early and is more prone to them. He further endangers himself, just like Lindros did.

I swear you're not really a Rangers fan.
look at Staal's time missed due to significant injuries and compare them with Skinner's. Enough said.

Of course I'm a Rangers fan lol, why does this keep getting brought up?

Kershaw is offline  
Old
07-15-2013, 12:53 AM
  #127
CM Lundqvist
Best In The World
 
CM Lundqvist's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Long Island
Country: United States
Posts: 8,579
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Skater probably, disagree about puckhandler 100%. MDZ has skills the other dmen on the team can only dream about.
What in the blue hell are you talking about with "skills the other dmen on the team could only dream about"?!?!? Moore and McDonagh are both better puck handlers and skaters are arguably better passers. Moore also has a better shot.

Quote:
look at Staal's time missed due to significant injuries and compare them with Skinner's. Enough said.
Staal has had 2 DIFFERENT injuries, 1 of them being a FREAK ACCIDENT. Skinner has had 2 concussions an injury which has proven to be chronic in 99.9% of players who have had more than 1.

Quote:
Of course I'm a Rangers fan lol, why does this keep getting brought up?
Your negativity regarding out players is matched only by Machinehead, but his negativity is a different kind and he at least knows what he's talking about. A lot of things you say are so outlandish and off the wall that others question your fandom and knowledge of this team and rightfully so.

CM Lundqvist is offline  
Old
07-15-2013, 01:49 AM
  #128
Cresto
In the pantry
 
Cresto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,502
vCash: 500
is everyone okay? because a bomb was just dropped.

Sometimes I think Kershaw says some things to play the contrary game. I know nothing myself so i go around posting this and that but sometimes, Kersh's posts are too perfectly the opposite of the consensus.

Cresto is offline  
Old
07-15-2013, 01:53 AM
  #129
Cresto
In the pantry
 
Cresto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,502
vCash: 500
MDZ does have a higher potential to act as an offensive presence in the offensive zone than McDonagh or Moore. What I mean by that is, he can take on the role of being the 4th forward on the ice and abandon his defensive responsibility in favor of a chance to carry the puck down low and try and make a play whereas Moore and McD will always favor making 80-90 percent of their plays around the point give or take a few feet.

Skills wise, MDZ will do certain things that McD probably won't do (not because he can't but because it's not something McD cares to do), but in terms of skating, puck handling, and yes, passing, McD has the distinct advantage on MDZ.

Cresto is offline  
Old
07-15-2013, 02:59 AM
  #130
CM Lundqvist
Best In The World
 
CM Lundqvist's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Long Island
Country: United States
Posts: 8,579
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCrusty View Post
MDZ does have a higher potential to act as an offensive presence in the offensive zone than McDonagh or Moore. What I mean by that is, he can take on the role of being the 4th forward on the ice and abandon his defensive responsibility in favor of a chance to carry the puck down low and try and make a play whereas Moore and McD will always favor making 80-90 percent of their plays around the point give or take a few feet.

Skills wise, MDZ will do certain things that McD probably won't do (not because he can't but because it's not something McD cares to do), but in terms of skating, puck handling, and yes, passing, McD has the distinct advantage on MDZ.
That's because MDZ has the mentality of a 4th forward at times. That's not necessarily a "skill".

McDonagh is a far better skater and puck-handler, but the fact that he's so responsible defensively will never allow him to be the 4th forward that MDZ can be at times.

Shea Weber is one of the best offensive defensemen in the game and you never see him that far down low. You can be more than effective from the point. In 2012, McDonagh was 6th in ES points among defenders in only his 1st full season and yet finished less than 10 points behind Del Zotto who was in his 3rd full season. This is by NO MEANS a comparison between McDonagh and Weber, just something proving that if given MDZ's power play time, McDonagh can put up those numbers, if not better.

CM Lundqvist is offline  
Old
07-15-2013, 03:30 AM
  #131
Cresto
In the pantry
 
Cresto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,502
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CM Lundqvist View Post
That's because MDZ has the mentality of a 4th forward at times. That's not necessarily a "skill".

McDonagh is a far better skater and puck-handler, but the fact that he's so responsible defensively will never allow him to be the 4th forward that MDZ can be at times.

Shea Weber is one of the best offensive defensemen in the game and you never see him that far down low. You can be more than effective from the point. In 2012, McDonagh was 6th in ES points among defenders in only his 1st full season and yet finished less than 10 points behind Del Zotto who was in his 3rd full season. This is by NO MEANS a comparison between McDonagh and Weber, just something proving that if given MDZ's power play time, McDonagh can put up those numbers, if not better.
All valid things said, there is a distinction between the offensive skillset of McD vs. MDZ. No doubt Torts did not benefit MDZ's offense and skill set and even set it back a touch with the lack of offensive zone time, transitions and passing. As much as projections of McD offense turning up are valid, there's no doubt in my mind MDZ has a higher offensive ceiling and this season could really push MDZ along.

Cresto is offline  
Old
07-15-2013, 05:41 AM
  #132
Fitzy
All Is Well
 
Fitzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 19,917
vCash: 50
Del Zotto does not have a single offensive ability that is not matched or bettered by McDonagh. The only difference is mentality.

Fitzy is offline  
Old
07-15-2013, 06:57 AM
  #133
silverfish
Mr. Glass
 
silverfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Standing on a Train
Country: United States
Posts: 14,923
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
Del Zotto does not have a single offensive ability that is not matched or bettered by McDonagh. The only difference is mentality.
I disagree very hard with this statement. Very hard.

silverfish is offline  
Old
07-15-2013, 07:00 AM
  #134
Crease
Registered User
 
Crease's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,833
vCash: 500
MDZ's ability to shoot high and wide is unparalleled around the league.

Crease is offline  
Old
07-15-2013, 07:45 AM
  #135
Faxius
Registered User
 
Faxius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 540
vCash: 2249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crease View Post
MDZ's ability to shoot high and wide is unparalleled around the league.
Made me laugh, very hard

Faxius is offline  
Old
07-15-2013, 07:49 AM
  #136
iamitter
Thornton's Hen
 
iamitter's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 3,363
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crease View Post
MDZ's ability to shoot high and wide is unparalleled around the league.
That's cause he tries to pick corners every shot. If he shot a la Boyle style, he'd be a logo sniper with a low sh% and probably score the same amount of goals. In 11-12, he actually had one of the highest sh % of dmen in the league (due to his picking corners style which if it misses the corner, often goes wide).

iamitter is offline  
Old
07-15-2013, 07:50 AM
  #137
GWOW
Two Pucks, One Cup
 
GWOW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 14,478
vCash: 500
MDZ is the Rangers best offensive defenseman. If McDonagh has more skill and better offensive instincts, he needs to prove it on a nightly basis, which he rarely did.

Torts held them all back. Let's give all of them a clean slate with a new coach.

GWOW is offline  
Old
07-15-2013, 08:02 AM
  #138
Crease
Registered User
 
Crease's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,833
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
That's cause he tries to pick corners every shot. If he shot a la Boyle style, he'd be a logo sniper with a low sh% and probably score the same amount of goals. In 11-12, he actually had one of the highest sh % of dmen in the league (due to his picking corners style which if it misses the corner, often goes wide).
There's gotta be a happy medium somewhere, right? You can't generate rebounds by missing the net the way he does. If there is nothing to shoot at, put the puck on net low and hard. Trying to go bar-down all the time is a detriment. How many times did he single handedly clear the zone last year on the PP with an errant shot?

Crease is offline  
Old
07-15-2013, 08:06 AM
  #139
JohnC
#FreeSteve
 
JohnC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 4,550
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
If McDonagh has more skill and better offensive instincts, he needs to prove it on a nightly basis, which he rarely did.
He was too busy bein a badass mother ****er in his own zone

JohnC is offline  
Old
07-15-2013, 08:07 AM
  #140
Inferno
HFB Partner
 
Inferno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Country: United States
Posts: 20,016
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverfish View Post
I disagree very hard with this statement. Very hard.
as do I, MDZ sees things on the ice that none of our dmen do, some of his passing plays on the rush or when he joins the play are really pretty.

Inferno is offline  
Old
07-15-2013, 08:12 AM
  #141
RGY
(Jagr68NYR94Leetch)
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Long Island, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 8,127
vCash: 500
How about we don't trade any of our defensemen and lets see how they play under AV. I think we have a great mix if stay at home defensemen and more active mobile defensemen.

RGY is offline  
Old
07-15-2013, 08:12 AM
  #142
Inferno
HFB Partner
 
Inferno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Country: United States
Posts: 20,016
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crease View Post
There's gotta be a happy medium somewhere, right? You can't generate rebounds by missing the net the way he does. If there is nothing to shoot at, put the puck on net low and hard. Trying to go bar-down all the time is a detriment. How many times did he single handedly clear the zone last year on the PP with an errant shot?
do you know how many shots on goal MDZ missed all of last year?

41.

That's less than Rick Nash, Brad Richards, Dan Girardi and Ryan Callahan, and it's only 7 more than Ryan McDonagh.

Inferno is offline  
Old
07-15-2013, 08:15 AM
  #143
Ail
k.
 
Ail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Mysidia
Country: United States
Posts: 16,366
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
as do I, MDZ sees things on the ice that none of our dmen do, some of his passing plays on the rush or when he joins the play are really pretty.
Which happens only on new moons during a solstice blessed by wiccan high priestesses every other leap year.

__________________
Ail is offline  
Old
07-15-2013, 08:15 AM
  #144
HatTrick Swayze
Tomato Potato
 
HatTrick Swayze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 9,345
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
That's cause he tries to pick corners every shot. If he shot a la Boyle style, he'd be a logo sniper with a low sh% and probably score the same amount of goals. In 11-12, he actually had one of the highest sh % of dmen in the league (due to his picking corners style which if it misses the corner, often goes wide).
The difference is that defensemen should not be trying to pick corners every time they get an open lane. Which is just one of many boneheaded moves Del Zotto makes on a nightly basis.

Also, really can't wait to watch the team this year. AV will add an additional 10 points onto the totals of each Dman. Can't wait.

__________________
"Here we can see the agression of american people. They love fighting and guns. when they wont win they try to kill us all." -HalfOfFame
HatTrick Swayze is online now  
Old
07-15-2013, 08:17 AM
  #145
iamitter
Thornton's Hen
 
iamitter's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 3,363
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crease View Post
There's gotta be a happy medium somewhere, right? You can't generate rebounds by missing the net the way he does. If there is nothing to shoot at, put the puck on net low and hard. Trying to go bar-down all the time is a detriment. How many times did he single handedly clear the zone last year on the PP with an errant shot?
Of course. His wrister is one of his greatest assets, though. Like all of our players bar Richards, he has no slap shot. Generating rebounds isn't one of his specialties.

iamitter is offline  
Old
07-15-2013, 08:18 AM
  #146
iamitter
Thornton's Hen
 
iamitter's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 3,363
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
The difference is that defensemen should not be trying to pick corners every time they get an open lane. Which is just one of many boneheaded moves Del Zotto makes on a nightly basis.

Also, really can't wait to watch the team this year. AV will add an additional 10 points onto the totals of each Dman. Can't wait.
If Del Zotto becomes a 50 point defenseman, I hope we move him instantly and accept the king's ransom in return

iamitter is offline  
Old
07-15-2013, 08:29 AM
  #147
Trxjw
Retired.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Land of no calls..
Country: United States
Posts: 16,476
vCash: 500
A key problem with Del Zotto is that the team has repeatedly asked him to be a shooter on the PP since Richards arrived. Like I've said before, it's no coincidence that our best PP in quite some time was run by Del Zotto in his rookie year. He has great vision and very solid mobility. He's an open-lane shooter, though. Not one of those guys who is going to thread a low boomer through traffic and on net.

I think (hope) we'll see some combination of Del Zotto and Moore/McDonagh on the PP this year. Del Zotto can put some passes right into the wheel house for both of those guys, and they both have the ability to rip one-timers on net, and the skating ability to put themselves in better shooting positions.

My main concern is where MDZ is going to play at ES. He's unable to play the right-side, and unless Staal is out to start the year, that means he's likely going to be playing on the 3rd pairing.

Trxjw is offline  
Old
07-15-2013, 08:30 AM
  #148
Crease
Registered User
 
Crease's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,833
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
do you know how many shots on goal MDZ missed all of last year?

41.

That's less than Rick Nash, Brad Richards, Dan Girardi and Ryan Callahan, and it's only 7 more than Ryan McDonagh.
Why are you counting in absolute numbers, unless the point you're trying to make is that MDZ doesn't take a lot of attempts but when he does he misses the net.

Player Shots Missed Shots On Goal Attempts Attempts on Net Goals Attempts in Net
Derick Brassard 7 25 32 78 % 5 16 %
Derek Stepan 42 108 150 72 % 18 12 %
Arron Asham 3 14 17 82 % 2 12 %
Rick Nash 43 176 219 80 % 21 10 %
Ryane Clowe 7 22 29 76 % 3 10 %
Ryan Callahan 57 144 201 72 % 16 8 %
Taylor Pyatt 24 56 80 70 % 6 8 %
Mats Zuccarello 11 27 38 71 % 3 8 %
Marian Gaborik 24 113 137 82 % 9 7 %
Brad Richards 44 110 154 71 % 11 7 %
Chris Kreider 9 19 28 68 % 2 7 %
Carl Hagelin 33 132 165 80 % 10 6 %
Marc Staal 20 20 40 50 % 2 5 %
John Moore 5 15 20 75 % 1 5 %
Anton Stralman 24 66 90 73 % 4 4 %
Ryan McDonagh 34 83 117 71 % 4 3 %
J.T. Miller 20 43 63 68 % 2 3 %
Michael Del Zotto 41 81 122 66 % 3 2 %
Dan Girardi 46 81 127 64 % 2 2 %
Brian Boyle 29 56 85 66 % 2 2 %
Steve Eminger 7 22 29 76 % 0 0 %
Darroll Powe 14 18 32 56 % 0 0 %
Matt Gilroy 4 14 18 78 % 0 0 %
Jeff Halpern 6 13 19 68 % 0 0 %
Roman Hamrlik 3 5 8 63 % 0 0 %
Benn Ferriero 4 4 8 50 % 0 0 %
Kris Newbury 2 4 6 67 % 0 0 %
Micheal Haley 0 4 4 100 % 0 0 %
Mike Rupp 2 2 4 50 % 0 0 %
Brandon Mashinter 0 2 2 100 % 0 0 %

Crease is offline  
Old
07-15-2013, 08:37 AM
  #149
Kris Chreider
Pass Off The Pads
 
Kris Chreider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: NYC/Minneapolis
Country: United States
Posts: 7,437
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
do you know how many shots on goal MDZ missed all of last year?

41.

That's less than Rick Nash, Brad Richards, Dan Girardi and Ryan Callahan, and it's only 7 more than Ryan McDonagh.
There's some big flaws in your reasoning. Three of your players are forwards, who are expected to shoot much much more than a defenseman. McDonagh and Girardi also tend to shoot more than Del Zotto does. Girardi can't move the puck to save his life.

Kris Chreider is offline  
Old
07-15-2013, 08:38 AM
  #150
Kris Chreider
Pass Off The Pads
 
Kris Chreider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: NYC/Minneapolis
Country: United States
Posts: 7,437
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crease View Post
Why are you counting in absolute numbers, unless the point you're trying to make is that MDZ doesn't take a lot of attempts but when he does he misses the net.

Player Shots Missed Shots On Goal Attempts Attempts on Net Goals Attempts in Net
Derick Brassard 7 25 32 78 % 5 16 %
Derek Stepan 42 108 150 72 % 18 12 %
Arron Asham 3 14 17 82 % 2 12 %
Rick Nash 43 176 219 80 % 21 10 %
Ryane Clowe 7 22 29 76 % 3 10 %
Ryan Callahan 57 144 201 72 % 16 8 %
Taylor Pyatt 24 56 80 70 % 6 8 %
Mats Zuccarello 11 27 38 71 % 3 8 %
Marian Gaborik 24 113 137 82 % 9 7 %
Brad Richards 44 110 154 71 % 11 7 %
Chris Kreider 9 19 28 68 % 2 7 %
Carl Hagelin 33 132 165 80 % 10 6 %
Marc Staal 20 20 40 50 % 2 5 %
John Moore 5 15 20 75 % 1 5 %
Anton Stralman 24 66 90 73 % 4 4 %
Ryan McDonagh 34 83 117 71 % 4 3 %
J.T. Miller 20 43 63 68 % 2 3 %
Michael Del Zotto 41 81 122 66 % 3 2 %
Dan Girardi 46 81 127 64 % 2 2 %
Brian Boyle 29 56 85 66 % 2 2 %
Steve Eminger 7 22 29 76 % 0 0 %
Darroll Powe 14 18 32 56 % 0 0 %
Matt Gilroy 4 14 18 78 % 0 0 %
Jeff Halpern 6 13 19 68 % 0 0 %
Roman Hamrlik 3 5 8 63 % 0 0 %
Benn Ferriero 4 4 8 50 % 0 0 %
Kris Newbury 2 4 6 67 % 0 0 %
Micheal Haley 0 4 4 100 % 0 0 %
Mike Rupp 2 2 4 50 % 0 0 %
Brandon Mashinter 0 2 2 100 % 0 0 %
Micheal Haley has a more accurate shot than Del Zotto.


Kris Chreider is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:22 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.