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Old
07-14-2013, 10:40 PM
  #601
committedindian86
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Originally Posted by madgoat33 View Post
this post is fraught with misinformation.

1) the police never told him anything. a DISPATCHER told him "you dont need to do that" when he indicated he was following trayvon
2)forensics expert testified in support of zimmerman's account that he was attacked
3) following somebody breaks no laws

the case wasn't even circumstantial, it was a non-case. if it weren't for the media jumping all over it, he probably never would have been tried. the only solace out of all this is that the justice system worked.
The only people who know what happened are Zimmerman and Martin, well Martin isn't here to tell his side of the story. Absolutely no misinformation in my post at all. You've been watching Hannity too much.

In regards to the forensic expert, there was a struggle but nothing was proven one way or the other. People testified that it was Zimmerman yelling for help, people also testified that it was Martins voice calling for help. Again, evidence was circumstantial. There was enough evidence for them to eventually place charges apparently, regardless of your view of the media.

I'm not claiming he murdered Martin but he had absolutely no reason to do more than calling the police. The dispatcher told him to do no more, he still did. Dudes a ****ing moron. Do you want to argue on that point?

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07-14-2013, 10:43 PM
  #602
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Not even a fraction of the attention that this story garnered and many times it's a worse situation than this was. I'm in the middle of it sometimes, unfortunately.
Just like the Casey Anthony story, the media focuses on stories that rile up angry or strong opinions. Nancy Grace, unfortunately, has made a career out of stories like that.

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07-14-2013, 10:44 PM
  #603
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A human died and the killer got off with nothing = the justice system worked


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07-14-2013, 10:47 PM
  #604
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A human died and the killer got off with nothing = the justice system worked

The fact that people outside of his friends and family were celebrating his acquittal is beyond ridiculous. Guilty or not guilty, a kid is dead. It could have been prevented if Zimmerman didn't get out of his car.

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07-14-2013, 11:31 PM
  #605
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My belief is that Zimmerman most likely defended himself but that he should have also never put himself in a position in which he had the potential to maybe have to.

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07-15-2013, 01:45 AM
  #606
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Absolutely no misinformation in my post at all. You've been watching Hannity too much.

The dispatcher told him to do no more, he still did. Dudes a ****ing moron. Do you want to argue on that point?
See bolded for the contradiction. I'll reiterate:

1. Police dispatchers have no authority to instruct callers to act one way or the other due to the fact that they can be charged for negligence if their instructions happen to factor into a crime.

2. You're misquoting the dispatcher, who said "we don't need you to do that." In terms of liability, this is a huge leap from "don't do that." Zimmerman was still perfectly within his rights to follow Martin. Was it a mistake? Obviously, it resulted in the death of another person. Was it illegal? No.

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07-15-2013, 05:22 AM
  #607
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A human died and the killer got off with nothing = the justice system worked

so every time somebody dies, we need to send somebody to jail?

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07-15-2013, 06:53 AM
  #608
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Young children get shot and killed here in our own city constantly. More than any other city maybe. Where's the national outcry about that?
Down here, most people don't even have a clue what is going on over there.

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07-15-2013, 07:16 AM
  #609
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See bolded for the contradiction. I'll reiterate:

1. Police dispatchers have no authority to instruct callers to act one way or the other due to the fact that they can be charged for negligence if their instructions happen to factor into a crime.

2. You're misquoting the dispatcher, who said "we don't need you to do that." In terms of liability, this is a huge leap from "don't do that." Zimmerman was still perfectly within his rights to follow Martin. Was it a mistake? Obviously, it resulted in the death of another person. Was it illegal? No.
We don't need you to do that is telling him that he shouldn't do that... That's not a huge leap. You have to be kidding yourself. Whether it was legal or not, he shouldn't have got out of his car. Legality and morality are completely different. He didn't do the right thing.

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07-15-2013, 07:48 AM
  #610
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so every time somebody dies, we need to send somebody to jail?
Never said anything close to that, good cherry picking.

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07-15-2013, 08:57 AM
  #611
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Never said anything close to that, good cherry picking.
just because somebody dies doesnt mean another person is culpable.

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07-15-2013, 09:32 AM
  #612
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Well obviously if I have a heart attack and die right now nobody is responsible.

But if I get shot in the chest with a gun when I didn't do anything that warranted being killed, I would hope that person be in prison. Way to confuse straight up 'die' with 'being killed by gunshot'.

Even if he didn't die he should still do time for assault or something.

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07-15-2013, 10:29 AM
  #613
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Still recovering from my weekend in Nashville and I'd highly recommend a visit. Haven't been there since Jan of 2007 and things have really blown up since then. Lots of incredibly hot women everywhere we went as well.

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07-15-2013, 10:31 AM
  #614
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Quote:
Originally Posted by committedindian86 View Post
We don't need you to do that is telling him that he shouldn't do that... That's not a huge leap. You have to be kidding yourself. Whether it was legal or not, he shouldn't have got out of his car. Legality and morality are completely different. He didn't do the right thing.
No, it absolutely is a huge leap. You keep ignoring the fact that dispatchers CANNOT give instructions to a caller in this situation. I don't know why this is so hard for you to comprehend.

Also, morality does not factor into a legal proceeding unless said morality happens to coincide with the meaning of the law. You yourself just said that legality and morality are completely different, so why keep bringing morality into this?

I'm sure that if Zimmerman knew what was going to happen, he would have stayed in the car. It's just enraging to me that everyone that's calling for his head conveniently ignores the fact that he was assaulted. It's not like he gunned down a random person walking in his neighborhood.

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07-15-2013, 10:37 AM
  #615
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This country hasn't been this divided in a very long time and I feel this case is only part of the beginning of more tension and changes to come. There is just too much stupidity and ignorance accross the board in the way people view things. The media is the main culprit. People want to base their viewpoints off of what they see on the idiot box and it shows. The case itself is cut and dry self defense with multiple witnesses corroborating the story.

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07-15-2013, 10:39 AM
  #616
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I'm sure that if Zimmerman knew what was going to happen, he would have stayed in the car. It's just enraging to me that everyone that's calling for his head conveniently ignores the fact that he was assaulted. It's not like he gunned down a random person walking in his neighborhood.
Well, yeah, and the fact a racist black man was the one who attacked him and nobody is talking about that. We need to stop the hate, not ignore it.

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07-15-2013, 10:39 AM
  #617
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No, it absolutely is a huge leap. You keep ignoring the fact that dispatchers CANNOT give instructions to a caller in this situation. I don't know why this is so hard for you to comprehend.

Also, morality does not factor into a legal proceeding unless said morality happens to coincide with the meaning of the law. You yourself just said that legality and morality are completely different, so why keep bringing morality into this?

I'm sure that if Zimmerman knew what was going to happen, he would have stayed in the car. It's just enraging to me that everyone that's calling for his head conveniently ignores the fact that he was assaulted. It's not like he gunned down a random person walking in his neighborhood.
Right, but him chasing the kid around is what precipitated the conflict. We also don't know what happened or was said immediately preceeding the conflict. All we have is Zimmerman's word.

Also, the 911 operator didn't affirmatively state don't follow him, but its pretty clear in the context of the conversation she was saying the police are on their way, let them handle it.

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07-15-2013, 11:04 AM
  #618
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Originally Posted by committedindian86 View Post
The fact that people outside of his friends and family were celebrating his acquittal is beyond ridiculous. Guilty or not guilty, a kid is dead. It could have been prevented if Zimmerman didn't get out of his car.
Agreed on that, it's OJ all over again. There should be no celebration nor should there be an outcry for Zimmerman to be murdered or the jurors to kill themselves. Obviously, the media blew this thing up way out of hand but people need to calm themselves down too.

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07-15-2013, 11:11 AM
  #619
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So...how about this nice string of weather finally?

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07-15-2013, 11:16 AM
  #620
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The mentality that pervades these "national trials..." I never understood it. RIP to Martin, but many more people than just him die every day in equally (and often more) avoidable situations.

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07-15-2013, 11:41 AM
  #621
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No, it absolutely is a huge leap. You keep ignoring the fact that dispatchers CANNOT give instructions to a caller in this situation. I don't know why this is so hard for you to comprehend.

Also, morality does not factor into a legal proceeding unless said morality happens to coincide with the meaning of the law. You yourself just said that legality and morality are completely different, so why keep bringing morality into this?

I'm sure that if Zimmerman knew what was going to happen, he would have stayed in the car. It's just enraging to me that everyone that's calling for his head conveniently ignores the fact that he was assaulted. It's not like he gunned down a random person walking in his neighborhood.
I never called for his head. I said he had poor judgement and the dispatch did tell him he didn't have to do anything, he didn't listen. I comprehend you just fine.

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07-15-2013, 11:47 AM
  #622
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I never called for his head. I said he had poor judgement and the dispatch did tell him he didn't have to do anything, he didn't listen. I comprehend you just fine.
He definitely did. It's one thing to be walking to the store have something like this happen, another to overstep your bounds as a neighborhood watchman. He had good intentions but should have just stayed in his car and tracked the man to the best of his abilities to give police the best chance to find him. There are a lot of nutcases out there and he learned that the hard way by getting the **** kicked out of him and then having to go through all of this drama.

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07-15-2013, 11:55 AM
  #623
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Well obviously if I have a heart attack and die right now nobody is responsible.

But if I get shot in the chest with a gun when I didn't do anything that warranted being killed, I would hope that person be in prison. Way to confuse straight up 'die' with 'being killed by gunshot'.

Even if he didn't die he should still do time for assault or something.
Unless he was attacked. Following somebody isn't a crime. I don't understand why people have such cut and dry opinions on an event they don't fully comprehend.

Only two people know what really happened that night. It's a shame a young man was cut down. That's really all anyone can say 100%.

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07-15-2013, 12:19 PM
  #624
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It is definitely a shame the young man died, always is when someone dies. It reminds me of a guy I knew who talked **** and started issues with almost everyone he came in contact with. He had even started a beef with me, which I confronted him about and resolved man to man. Long story short, I had a legit issue with a friend of his and he made it his own business. Nevertheless, amongst my friends and other people who knew this guy, we always thought one day he might start something with the wrong person at the wrong time. Sure enough, one day he did and the guy pulled out a gun and killed him. And this applies to both these guys here. Mind your own business, be observant but don't initiate confrontation because you never know what the other person is willing and capable of doing. You really, really don't. And almost all of us are guilty of it at some point. When I got in an accident in the ghetto a couple years ago, I chased the person to their house and demanded the insurance card, which I got and ended up getting paid where I would have had to make my own claim and pay myself if I hadn't chased them. Still, it was like 600 bucks, not worth dying over. But I got caught up in my own head that they should be scared of me, not the other way around, but I wasn't armed and that person may have had a gun. It's hard to judge when it is so easy to get wrapped up into a situation and not think straight, but the only way to be as safe as possible is to avoid the confrontation whenever possible because like someone said, **** like this happens every single day.

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07-15-2013, 12:32 PM
  #625
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Unless he was attacked. Following somebody isn't a crime. I don't understand why people have such cut and dry opinions on an event they don't fully comprehend.

Only two people know what really happened that night. It's a shame a young man was cut down. That's really all anyone can say 100%.
That's what manslaughter is. You get attacked, then kill him. I don't think Zimmerman was guilty of murder, but in the end if you kill a guy in self-defense you should do time. From what I've read, it just seems like Florida has some really screwed up self defense laws which protected him, and in a lot of other states he'd be in jail right now.

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