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Old
07-15-2013, 01:50 PM
  #626
digdug41982
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Originally Posted by IU Hawks fan View Post
That's what manslaughter is. You get attacked, then kill him. I don't think Zimmerman was guilty of murder, but in the end if you kill a guy in self-defense you should do time. From what I've read, it just seems like Florida has some really screwed up self defense laws which protected him, and in a lot of other states he'd be in jail right now.
No, an example of manslaughter is running someone over with your car while sober.

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The unjustifiable, inexcusable, and intentional killing of a human being without deliberation, premeditation, and malice. The unlawful killing of a human being without any deliberation, which may be involuntary, in the commission of a lawful act without due caution and circumspection.
This killing was justified because of the attack. If Zimmerman didn't do anything, the man may have beat him to death or snapped his neck. He was clearly overpowered, based on the eye witness accounts. He had no choice but to put him down. It sucks that it happened that way, and had Zimmerman known that would be the outcome, he most likely would have stayed in his car. So yeah, made the mistake of getting out and talking to Martin, which apparently provoked the attack. But no, he shouldn't have only two choices of being beat to death or serving time. That's ****ing ridiculous and is counterintuitive to the law.

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07-15-2013, 01:52 PM
  #627
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Doing time for self defense? What?

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07-15-2013, 01:56 PM
  #628
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This killing was justified because of the attack. If Zimmerman didn't do anything, the man may have beat him to death or snapped his neck. He was clearly overpowered, based on the eye witness accounts. He had no choice but to put him down. It sucks that it happened that way, and had Zimmerman known that would be the outcome, he most likely would have stayed in his car. So yeah, made the mistake of getting out and talking to Martin, which apparently provoked the attack. But no, he shouldn't have only two choices of being beat to death or serving time. That's ****ing ridiculous and is counterintuitive to the law.
Possibly. I have a hard time believing Zimmerman's story. If he was getting beat so badly, how was he able to get his gun out of his holster. If he was on his back, getting a gun out of one of those side/back holsters would be really tough. He also gave a bunch of inconsistent statements which is why the prosecution were desperate for him to testify.

Also, people lose fights all the time. People rarely get beaten to death in street fights. I have a tough time believing Martin was going to beat him to death. Sounds like a guy that has never been in a fight before and panicked. I have a tough time believing the reasonableness of his actions and that it went down exactly as Zimmerman claimed.

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Old
07-15-2013, 01:56 PM
  #629
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post

This killing was justified because of the attack. If Zimmerman didn't do anything, the man may have beat him to death or snapped his neck. He was clearly overpowered, based on the eye witness accounts. He had no choice but to put him down. It sucks that it happened that way, and had Zimmerman known that would be the outcome, he most likely would have stayed in his car. So yeah, made the mistake of getting out and talking to Martin, which apparently provoked the attack. But no, he shouldn't have only two choices of being beat to death or serving time. That's ****ing ridiculous and is counterintuitive to the law.
Overpowered? Dude had like 100 pounds on the kid.

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Old
07-15-2013, 01:59 PM
  #630
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Overpowered? Dude had like 100 pounds on the kid.
IIRC, Martin was 5'11" and tone, Zimmerman is 5'7" and husky, not at all unreasonable for Martin to gain control.

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07-15-2013, 02:02 PM
  #631
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Possibly. I have a hard time believing Zimmerman's story. If he was getting beat so badly, how was he able to get his gun out of his holster. If he was on his back, getting a gun out of one of those side/back holsters would be really tough. He also gave a bunch of inconsistent statements which is why the prosecution were desperate for him to testify.

Also, people lose fights all the time. People rarely get beaten to death in street fights. I have a tough time believing Martin was going to beat him to death. Sounds like a guy that has never been in a fight before and panicked. I have a tough time believing the reasonableness of his actions and that it went down exactly as Zimmerman claimed.
We can sit here and use words like "rarely", but that's not never and you don't know what it's like until you're in it. I know a guy who had the exact same thing happen to him and yet managed to draw his knife and kill the guy. There wasn't even a trial. They just called it self defense and that was that.

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07-15-2013, 02:05 PM
  #632
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Also, for the beating Zimmer was supposed to have taken, his injuries were pretty mild. Not the type of injuries that scream nearly beaten to death.

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07-15-2013, 02:07 PM
  #633
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No, an example of manslaughter is running someone over with your car while sober.
You clearly aren't aware of the differences between voluntary and involuntary manslaughter if that's the umbrella example you choose to give.

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07-15-2013, 02:16 PM
  #634
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Also, for the beating Zimmer was supposed to have taken, his injuries were pretty mild. Not the type of injuries that scream nearly beaten to death.
No, they didn't "scream" beaten to death but they don't have to. You don't get on top of people and start beating on them, period. That is enough for them to draw a weapon and kill you and be within their rights to do so. Violence begets violence and the only way to avoid it is not to initiate it. And even words can initiate it if you're dealing with the wrong person. You have to try to avoid confrontation or you open the door. Zimmerman opened a door getting out of the car and got his ass kicked. Martin opened up a much bigger door by attacking Zimmerman and got killed, all in a matter of minutes and out of this, one man is justifiably free yet changed for life and the other is dead. There is no happy ending for anyone.

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07-15-2013, 02:18 PM
  #635
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You clearly aren't aware of the differences between voluntary and involuntary manslaughter if that's the umbrella example you choose to give.
You're the last person that should be trying to educate someone on this law if you believe you should go to prison for killing someone regardless of the circumstances.

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07-15-2013, 02:21 PM
  #636
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No, they didn't "scream" beaten to death but they don't have to. You don't get on top of people and start beating on them, period. That is enough for them to draw a weapon and kill you and be within their rights to do so. Violence begets violence and the only way to avoid it is not to initiate it. And even words can initiate it if you're dealing with the wrong person. You have to try to avoid confrontation or you open the door. Zimmerman opened a door getting out of the car and got his ass kicked. Martin opened up a much bigger door by attacking Zimmerman and got killed, all in a matter of minutes and out of this, one man is justifiably free yet changed for life and the other is dead. There is no happy ending for anyone.
You have to reasonably believe that your life is in danger. Just because someone hits you, doesn't mean you can kill the other person. Even if someone climbs on top of you, it doesn't mean you can kill them. I don't think Zimmerman's belief his life was in danger was reasonable and the reason I think this is because his injuries were rather minor. He didn't even require hospitalization.

A medical examiner who reviewed video and photographs of George Zimmerman's injuries suffered during his fatal confrontation with Trayvon Martin called the neighborhood watch captain's wounds "insignificant" and "non-life threatening."

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07-15-2013, 02:22 PM
  #637
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That's what I love about topics like these... a bunch of pointless rehashing of arguments mostly based on speculation since only two people know what actually happened, one of whom is unfortunately dead.

I just hope nobody in Florida is stupid enough to riot.

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07-15-2013, 02:33 PM
  #638
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only 2 days left and I will fly to Mallorca, Spain.

good that our roster is set and not much talk will be going on

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07-15-2013, 02:33 PM
  #639
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You're the last person that should be trying to educate someone on this law if you believe you should go to prison for killing someone regardless of the circumstances.
My opinions on what happened have nothing to do with the fact that you basically said that killing someone in self defense can NEVER be classified as manslaughter, which couldn't be further from the truth.

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07-15-2013, 03:01 PM
  #640
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My opinions on what happened have nothing to do with the fact that you basically said that killing someone in self defense can NEVER be classified as manslaughter, which couldn't be further from the truth.
I didn't say that at all, but yeah, I absolutely believe that if you feel your life is in danger, you have to do whatever you feel is necessary to save yourself. The law agrees. Now, if you just have a black eye and the other guy didn't have a weapon and nobody saw it, you're ****ed, nobody is going to believe you. If a guy is on top of you continuously beating you in the middle of a public place and you have multiple injuries AND feel your life is in danger, do what you have to do to save yourself and let the judicial system hash it out from there. That's what Zimmerman did.

As for your comment on voluntary vs. involuntary, that was irrelevant to my point about manslaughter. In some cases "implied malice" can simply mean being under the influence while committing the act and carries a second degree murder charge regardless of intent, that's why I specified.

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07-15-2013, 03:11 PM
  #641
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Doing time for self defense? What?
I had to read that a couple of times myself to make sure I was reading it right.

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Old
07-15-2013, 03:16 PM
  #642
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I just have a tough time believing his life was in legitimate danger. Obviously we don't know and never will.

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07-15-2013, 03:16 PM
  #643
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What is going on in here... I don't think I can take this thread that seriously.

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07-15-2013, 03:17 PM
  #644
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I just have a tough time believing his life was in legitimate danger. Obviously we don't know and never will.
Why not? Didn't he gain something like 120 pounds from the day of the incident till when the trial started. Pretty sure when it happened he was a scrawny guy, or average at the most. I know a ton of kids who are 17 and in sports with gym routines and are plenty strong.

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07-15-2013, 03:20 PM
  #645
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What is going on in here... I don't think I can take this thread that seriously.
Save us Ray. Give me a recipe, workout tip, anything! Seriously if I wanted to see this crap I would read through the 2000+ posts on the politics board.

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07-15-2013, 03:22 PM
  #646
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Save us Ray. Give me a recipe, workout tip, anything! Seriously if I wanted to see this crap I would read through the 2000+ posts on the politics board.
Ran 16 miles yesterday.


BOOM

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07-15-2013, 03:22 PM
  #647
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Ran 16 miles yesterday.


BOOM
Masochist.

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07-15-2013, 03:23 PM
  #648
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I just have a tough time believing his life was in legitimate danger. Obviously we don't know and never will.
Alright, you're Zimmerman, ignore how the incident started as it is really isn't that relevant. Martin attacks you, gains control and is on top of you and beating you. You can't get yourself out from under him and he keeps beating on you. You're yelling for help and nobody is helping you. What do you do?...just hope he stops and you aren't left with serious or perhaps fatal injuries?

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07-15-2013, 03:25 PM
  #649
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Masochist.
Marathon training. Have a nice light week this week for the most part, and a 10M Sunday run scheduled. A week from Sunday I'll bump it up to 20M. Can't wait.

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07-15-2013, 03:26 PM
  #650
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Ran 16 miles yesterday.


BOOM
Guy at work went on a few bourbon tours in Kentucky this weekend, including Makers Mark.

Soon.

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