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2013 NHL Free Agent Frenzy Part 5

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Old
07-16-2013, 02:29 AM
  #1001
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I think where you and I may disagree is Tinordi. I am very worried he will become a Patrick Traverse ....
At least it will give you some more current material for your avatar

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07-16-2013, 02:33 AM
  #1002
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drewiske is really underrated, hes gonna surprise alot of ppl next year (if he gets the opportunity). dude is a solid all around 5/6 d-man
I think drewiske is capable of being more steady than he showed with montreal last year. He had some good shifts, and some brutal ones too. One thing I didn't notice about drewiske in LA was his erratic play from shift to shift. Maybe a full camp under his belt will help him become a contributor to the bottom pairing. However, if the team is ever forced to play him in the top 4 again, then we are in trouble.

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07-16-2013, 04:44 AM
  #1003
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That's what I don't get - yes I personally would've loved Lecavalier here and remain convicted that 5x5 would've gotten it done - but why does a busted up Briere with awful stats end up signing for much MORE than Ryder and Desharnais?

So far Bergevin has done very little to impress me but I will say that I'm very bitter about Gainey's tenure and will project a lot of that onto Bergevin until he proves otherwise. Hearing about "prices were too high" (but signing Briere) and "we build from within" (but not trading for better picks or acquiring more) doesn't reassure me - it reminds me.
Believe me, your bitterness is coming through, loud and clear. It seems you are so blinded by it that you grossly exaggerate to the point that your posts read like baseless whining. Busted up? How do you call Briere busted up in comparison to Lecavalier?? And in the same sentence, you claim Briere signs for much MORE than Ryder or DD - don't know if you follow the NHL salary system, but in the NHL 500k is not very much. Yet this is the difference between Briere and your examples.

I can't even read your posts anymore without an immediate , followed by a

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Old
07-16-2013, 04:48 AM
  #1004
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
This would make a ton of sense had it not been for the fact that a) we're just under the cap limit and have glaring holes in our defense and b) he just signed an expensive UFA to a NMC contract.

So, yes, in the imaginary world you live in - Bergevin's moves make sense.
and yet, you'd be OK with a Vinny making more money, for longer term... even though we have Plekanec under contract for a few more years, Eller who's ready for top 6 duties, Galchenuyk who should be as good as Vinny is now in a year or two at most... and DD...

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07-16-2013, 07:39 AM
  #1005
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and yet, you'd be OK with a Vinny making more money, for longer term... even though we have Plekanec under contract for a few more years, Eller who's ready for top 6 duties, Galchenuyk who should be as good as Vinny is now in a year or two at most... and DD...
A lot of us believe that Lecavalier is a better hockey player than Briere and a better fit for this team.

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07-16-2013, 07:54 AM
  #1006
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A lot of us believe that Lecavalier is a better hockey player than Briere and a better fit for this team.
hard to get why some people don't see this...

Most of the negative reaction to the Briere signing is based on the poor fit he is for our existing group of players.

That, coupled with his age, declining production & injury issues, all add up to a signing that is more "shot in the dark" than high probability upgrade.

Lecavalier, for current level of play, role, fit within our group and potential impact, was a much better option, missing out on him shouldn't have led to the knee-jerk Briere signing imo.

Morrow, likewise, is a better fit than Briere... we may still sign him, but with the Briere addition it means we likely need to move an existing roster player and/or make it near impossible for a young guy to earn a spot out of camp (not as big a deal since we don't have anyone clearly ready for a top-9 role)

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07-16-2013, 08:03 AM
  #1007
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Originally Posted by JohnnyB11 View Post
Believe me, your bitterness is coming through, loud and clear. It seems you are so blinded by it that you grossly exaggerate to the point that your posts read like baseless whining. Busted up? How do you call Briere busted up in comparison to Lecavalier?? And in the same sentence, you claim Briere signs for much MORE than Ryder or DD - don't know if you follow the NHL salary system, but in the NHL 500k is not very much. Yet this is the difference between Briere and your examples.

I can't even read your posts anymore without an immediate , followed by a
First of all Lecavalier has played more games and has more goals and points (I eyeballed it, not 100% sure) in the past five years.

Secondly, did you not see Briere's game in recent years? His absolutely horrible Corsi (and all that) + his perimeter game + the fact that he produces best as a centre? His concussion issues and his size? The fact that his non-physical game will only contribute to the greater, overall problem the Habs' offense has had for the last ~10 years (minus the Patches-DD-Cole like of last year)?

These are red-flags to me. These read like major, major indictments against a player who ought to have nothing to do on a team that already features the shortest, softest players in the league by a long, long shot.

And you know what? I even said that I expect Briere to put in a good season, he's very talented and seems like he has something to prove. My knock is on Bergevin who should not have even targeted him to begin with. You're claiming this is baseless and that the difference in salary doesn't matter. I'm claiming that Lecavalier (and other players) make >500k more but bring so many other elements to a team that they make up the difference in many ways.

But I'm fine with not having Lecavalier going into the season - we have a good team and blah blah blah. My "baseless whining" is because Bergevin didn't target any d-men, it's that he extended Bouillon, Drewiskie and Desharnais, it's that our 4th line centre is a rookie smurf... it's that Bergevin's timidity on the market is compounded by him being a tightwad and that we'll never be players on the market. Philly got Lecavalier at a discount, make no mistake. We paid through the nose for Briere.

We still don't have a "good" top4 d-man. We still will employ a ludicrous defensive scheme. We still will end up struggling against teams with big d-men. We will over-rely on Subban on the and otherwise have a very static, very ugly scheme. We won't clear the crease on the PK ever and by the same token the opposing goalie will rarely have to deal with any of our players in his face.

We're a small, weak team. In positions where we could potentially change that image (3rd line C, bottom2 D, 4th line C) Bergevin doubled-down on sticking with the Smurf show. That's what bothers me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
and yet, you'd be OK with a Vinny making more money, for longer term... even though we have Plekanec under contract for a few more years, Eller who's ready for top 6 duties, Galchenuyk who should be as good as Vinny is now in a year or two at most... and DD...
I'm "over" missing out on Lecavalier, but my points against Bergevin stand.

Eller is not ready for top6 duties, not from what we saw last year (games where Plekanec was out or played poorly, Eller underperformed) - he could step up drastically but he could also not (depends on Therrien as well of course).
Plekanec brings a great two-way ethic but not size or game-breaking talent - we've seen him in the playoffs and he's steady and great defensively but does not bring an extra gear offensively.
Galchenyuk is a bit of a wild-card in that he could end up tearing the league up next year or not... we don't know.
Desharnais' contract is Bergevin's miscarriage so bringing him up only ratifies my view that Bergevin is an arbitrary, penny-pinching, arrogant idiot much like Gainey.

For more on why you're wrong: see the above two posts.

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Old
07-16-2013, 08:20 AM
  #1008
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
This would make a ton of sense had it not been for the fact that a) we're just under the cap limit and have glaring holes in our defense and b) he just signed an expensive UFA to a NMC contract.

So, yes, in the imaginary world you live in - Bergevin's moves make sense.
What are you talking about ? It's a 2 year deal, what difference does this make ?

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Old
07-16-2013, 08:26 AM
  #1009
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hard to get why some people don't see this...

Most of the negative reaction to the Briere signing is based on the poor fit he is for our existing group of players.

That, coupled with his age, declining production & injury issues, all add up to a signing that is more "shot in the dark" than high probability upgrade.

Lecavalier, for current level of play, role, fit within our group and potential impact, was a much better option, missing out on him shouldn't have led to the knee-jerk Briere signing imo.

Morrow, likewise, is a better fit than Briere... we may still sign him, but with the Briere addition it means we likely need to move an existing roster player and/or make it near impossible for a young guy to earn a spot out of camp (not as big a deal since we don't have anyone clearly ready for a top-9 role)
Lecavalier didn't want to play here so his fit is irrelevant. What don't people understand?

And Briere, you do realize that talk of his fit doesn't make sense until you look at the pre-season roster? It's far too early.

I love how you guys are judging a car that only has the paint applied when the tires haven't been put on yet.

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Old
07-16-2013, 08:31 AM
  #1010
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1. MB got out of cole's contract. Very good move. We forget that
2. MB did sign DD, I know I don't like tht either. But......
3. I think MB wants to get bigger in the D, but every GM knows that and wants to screw up on a trade so he has to find a D man without selling the farm.

Bottom line he wants to increase size, Gainey screwed that up, but MB is holding the idea of "not giving way to much up"

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Old
07-16-2013, 08:32 AM
  #1011
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Plus teach tornordi to get meaner. That should be a training camp lesson.

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Old
07-16-2013, 08:44 AM
  #1012
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
First of all Lecavalier has played more games and has more goals and points (I eyeballed it, not 100% sure) in the past five years.

Secondly, did you not see Briere's game in recent years? His absolutely horrible Corsi (and all that) + his perimeter game + the fact that he produces best as a centre? His concussion issues and his size? The fact that his non-physical game will only contribute to the greater, overall problem the Habs' offense has had for the last ~10 years (minus the Patches-DD-Cole like of last year)?

These are red-flags to me. These read like major, major indictments against a player who ought to have nothing to do on a team that already features the shortest, softest players in the league by a long, long shot.

And you know what? I even said that I expect Briere to put in a good season, he's very talented and seems like he has something to prove. My knock is on Bergevin who should not have even targeted him to begin with. You're claiming this is baseless and that the difference in salary doesn't matter. I'm claiming that Lecavalier (and other players) make >500k more but bring so many other elements to a team that they make up the difference in many ways.

But I'm fine with not having Lecavalier going into the season - we have a good team and blah blah blah. My "baseless whining" is because Bergevin didn't target any d-men, it's that he extended Bouillon, Drewiskie and Desharnais, it's that our 4th line centre is a rookie smurf... it's that Bergevin's timidity on the market is compounded by him being a tightwad and that we'll never be players on the market. Philly got Lecavalier at a discount, make no mistake. We paid through the nose for Briere.

We still don't have a "good" top4 d-man. We still will employ a ludicrous defensive scheme. We still will end up struggling against teams with big d-men. We will over-rely on Subban on the and otherwise have a very static, very ugly scheme. We won't clear the crease on the PK ever and by the same token the opposing goalie will rarely have to deal with any of our players in his face.

We're a small, weak team. In positions where we could potentially change that image (3rd line C, bottom2 D, 4th line C) Bergevin doubled-down on sticking with the Smurf show. That's what bothers me.


I'm "over" missing out on Lecavalier, but my points against Bergevin stand.

Eller is not ready for top6 duties, not from what we saw last year (games where Plekanec was out or played poorly, Eller underperformed) - he could step up drastically but he could also not (depends on Therrien as well of course).
Plekanec brings a great two-way ethic but not size or game-breaking talent - we've seen him in the playoffs and he's steady and great defensively but does not bring an extra gear offensively.
Galchenyuk is a bit of a wild-card in that he could end up tearing the league up next year or not... we don't know.
Desharnais' contract is Bergevin's miscarriage so bringing him up only ratifies my view that Bergevin is an arbitrary, penny-pinching, arrogant idiot much like Gainey.

For more on why you're wrong: see the above two posts.
Who are we supposed to bring in? Who is out there that's gonna do a better job than a callup for tinordi or beaulieu?

What bottom six centre's are out there? Boyd gordon got 3 million....we gonna offer 3.5? for s 4th line center?

We got briere because he's free....he doesn't cost a godamn thing except house money. He didn't cost players...he didn't cost prospects...he didn;t cost draft picks....and he didn't cost valuable money that's going to interfere with the resigning of our upcoming FA's or needed to be spent on a UFA that fit our primary needs because there were none willing to come here or come here at the right price and term or simply in abundance this year to begin with. Would you rather dress a suitcase of money?..see how many goals that will get you?

How do you know bergevin hasn't been on the phone with every last gm asking about every last crease clearing d-man and power forward and coming to the realization that teams don't give these things away...they cost WAY too much...we have to draft them.
God almighty i don't understand how people are still going ******* over this.

He said...the day he came in here...he wanted to make this team better and he has.

He said he believes in building through the draft....and he does.

He said he wants to make this team a contender for years to come and turn it into a stanley cup winner. Wait and see. Just wait and see.

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Old
07-16-2013, 08:45 AM
  #1013
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Since there's no more "frenzy" to speak of and this thread is over 1000 posts, I think we can go back to talking about non-Habs related UFA signings and moves in the Out of Town thread.

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