HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Notices

Does Bergevin have to sign PK Subban before the season start ?

View Poll Results: should bergy sign PK before the season start ?
yes 76 32.20%
no 67 28.39%
it doesn't matter 93 39.41%
Voters: 236. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-16-2013, 10:18 AM
  #51
11Goat11
Inside her
 
11Goat11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,740
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
I get that nothing I say will change your mind but PK needed to reign in his exuberance so extra motivation to prove his doubters wrong would probably work against him in that case. It's more likely Markov provided a calming influence for him which allowed him to maintain his focus/discipline more. It's also completely normal for a young player to become a more of a leader and have more of a team first mentality as he ages especially when in your early 20s. Especially since PK had a team first mentality to begin with.

It's laughable that you think Patches and Price would be insulted and as for Galchenyuk if he's a 1st line player by the time he signs his extension he's not going to care whether PK signed a bridge deal or not. He's going to point out all the other players who got long term deals, and if MB doesn't give him one then he'll probably do the same thing PK did and holdout. Do you really want all our young players to feel like they have to holdout to get what they are worth?
For far too long there have been primma donnas and cliques in the Canadiens dressing room, I appreciate what Bergevin and Therrien are trying to accomplish here. What is the point of restricted free agency if teams are not going to use this mechanism to control young player costs? If Bergevin continues to operate this way guys like Galchenyuk will expect to get a bridge deal, this isn't NHL 14, you have to take egos and contract repercussions in the dressing room into consideration. That said, if Galch turns into an elite first line scorer Marc might have to cave, but remember PK was not a Norris winner when he got the bridge deal.

11Goat11 is offline  
Old
07-16-2013, 10:22 AM
  #52
Estimated_Prophet
Registered User
 
Estimated_Prophet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,161
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
That's about the last little piece of argument the people who think Bergevin did a good thing have. You obviously believe it did help otherwise you wouldn't bring it up.
However, listening to PK through the negotiations and lockout, he sounded more mature than a lot of his older teammates, some of which are our supposed leaders.
Also, if you followed PK over his young career, you know his progression curve since the juniors has been remarkable. No reason to think he doesn't get a Norris with a bigger deal in place. The guy has improved tremendously season after season. He did the same in his junior days, was it a monetary issue then as well? So why would it be one now.

It remains a possibility, and maybe served as a slight motivation, but I doubt it went as far as to have the impact some people like to imply.
He matured because that's usually what experience and age do to people. He improved because he trained hard, as usual, focused on some of his flaws and improved his strengths. That's why he got better. It's not because he signed a deal he wasn't happy with that he like pressed on a button and went into serious super Subban mode.
Because I brought it up as a possibility means that I must believe it to be so???

Only a fool would say with certainty that the contact negotiations absolutely did or did not play a part as a variable in his development. We are all free to lean more to one side than the other but dealing with absolutes in a subjective discussion is a waste of everyone's time.

Personally I don't lean in either direction but instead acknowledge it as a possibility. If you are aware of anything else that I would like to say that I have yet to think of I would greatly appreciate you letting me know ASAP. You are like Galifianakis with his mind control powers. When I discover brain control we will revisit these conversations.

Estimated_Prophet is offline  
Old
07-16-2013, 10:25 AM
  #53
JayKing
Go Habs Go
 
JayKing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,247
vCash: 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyjockey View Post
Doesn't really matter... He'll get Doughty, Karlson, Letang type money now or next summer. No stress really. Offer sheet next year would be 5 firsts at that point.
And hope you draft another Norris winner with mid to late 1st for the next decade. *sigh*

JayKing is offline  
Old
07-16-2013, 10:25 AM
  #54
Estimated_Prophet
Registered User
 
Estimated_Prophet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,161
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brainiac View Post
And for the record, my doubts, as of right now, stem from the fact that MB is always willing to sign/extend about anybody (Price, DD, Bouillon, Briere, White). But with Subban, it doesn't seem to be a priority...

I could be wrong, of course, but I wouldn't be surprised to see MB being a dick with Subban and dragging things on forever.
He is under 7 months removed from a long contract dispute and holdout from Subban. It would be a little odd to come back with another offer right now....

Estimated_Prophet is offline  
Old
07-16-2013, 10:28 AM
  #55
11Goat11
Inside her
 
11Goat11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,740
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
That's about the last little piece of argument the people who think Bergevin did a good thing have. You obviously believe it did help otherwise you wouldn't bring it up.
However, listening to PK through the negotiations and lockout, he sounded more mature than a lot of his older teammates, some of which are our supposed leaders.
Also, if you followed PK over his young career, you know his progression curve since the juniors has been remarkable. No reason to think he doesn't get a Norris with a bigger deal in place. The guy has improved tremendously season after season. He did the same in his junior days, was it a monetary issue then as well? So why would it be one now.

It remains a possibility, and maybe served as a slight motivation, but I doubt it went as far as to have the impact some people like to imply. He matured because that's usually what experience and age do to people. He improved because he trained hard, as usual, focused on some of his flaws and improved his strengths. That's why he got better. It's not because he signed a deal he wasn't happy with that he like pressed on a button and went into serious super Subban mode.
Subbans own comments lead me to believe the bridge contract was extra motivation. I don't have the links but he was very adamant about how he wanted to prove his doubters wrong, and that he remembered who said what about him. I am not a Subban hater and have never believed the BS spread about him in the media, but he did change a few things about his image this year that helped his game, the team, and people's perception of him. I am not saying he wouldn't have continued to improve, but IMO the bridge contract changed him in a positive way that might not have occurred if he was given bank and the long term deal right away.

11Goat11 is offline  
Old
07-16-2013, 10:29 AM
  #56
Myron Gaines*
Trop Giou
 
Myron Gaines*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,391
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmdubois585 View Post
And hope you draft another Norris winner with mid to late 1st for the next decade. *sigh*
We did draft him in the 2nd round tho'. And Erik Karlsson was drafted 15th overall.

Myron Gaines* is offline  
Old
07-16-2013, 10:33 AM
  #57
SmurfsFTW
DD for Masterton
 
SmurfsFTW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,113
vCash: 500
To show Subban more respect after an outstanding season and him holding out to sign a garbage deal for a defenseman his caliber, bergevin needs to apologize and recognize his mistake and give him the moon so he dosen't ditch a long term contract with the Habs. I have a feeling that once he hits UFA he'll be long gone if bergevin dosen't do that.

Just my 0.02$.

SmurfsFTW is offline  
Old
07-16-2013, 10:53 AM
  #58
ECWHSWI
P.K. is perfect.
 
ECWHSWI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 14,975
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmurfsFTW View Post
To show Subban more respect after an outstanding season and him holding out to sign a garbage deal for a defenseman his caliber, bergevin needs to apologize and recognize his mistake and give him the moon so he dosen't ditch a long term contract with the Habs. I have a feeling that once he hits UFA he'll be long gone if bergevin dosen't do that.

Just my 0.02$.

ECWHSWI is offline  
Old
07-16-2013, 10:55 AM
  #59
Frozenice
the random dude
 
Frozenice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,156
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmurfsFTW View Post
To show Subban more respect after an outstanding season and him holding out to sign a garbage deal for a defenseman his caliber, bergevin needs to apologize and recognize his mistake and give him the moon so he dosen't ditch a long term contract with the Habs. I have a feeling that once he hits UFA he'll be long gone if bergevin dosen't do that.

Just my 0.02$.
Bergevin would trade him instead, lol. Just a little dose of how things happen in the real world.

Frozenice is offline  
Old
07-16-2013, 10:59 AM
  #60
hogtownhabsfan*
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 4,727
vCash: 500
Subban going off in the Olympics will only further cost us money. If can lock him up for less than 7 million now, then you do it. 6.75 million, give some on the term, maybe a 5 year deal to allow PK to have a second payday.

hogtownhabsfan* is offline  
Old
07-16-2013, 11:00 AM
  #61
ECWHSWI
P.K. is perfect.
 
ECWHSWI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 14,975
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
Subban going off in the Olympics will only further cost us money. If can lock him up for less than 7 million now, then you do it. 6.75 million, give some on the term, maybe a 5 year deal to allow PK to have a second payday.
or to leave at 28/29, in his prime

ECWHSWI is offline  
Old
07-16-2013, 11:09 AM
  #62
NotProkofievian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,699
vCash: 500
Yeah, signing Subban for 5 years doesn't really make sense being that we're probably 3-4 years away from seeing this core come to fruition. He should be extended for maximum length, IMO.

NotProkofievian is offline  
Old
07-16-2013, 11:10 AM
  #63
SouthernHab
Registered User
 
SouthernHab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 9,643
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmurfsFTW View Post
To show Subban more respect after an outstanding season and him holding out to sign a garbage deal for a defenseman his caliber, bergevin needs to apologize and recognize his mistake and give him the moon so he dosen't ditch a long term contract with the Habs. I have a feeling that once he hits UFA he'll be long gone if bergevin dosen't do that.

Just my 0.02$.
Bergevin or any other GM apologize to a player??

Holy ****. Somewhere there is a huge disconnect.

SouthernHab is offline  
Old
07-16-2013, 11:11 AM
  #64
FrontierPsyCHiatrist*
Master Pleks
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,735
vCash: 500
The way I look at it:

Subban shouldn't be paid more than Price, our best player.

My guess is a 6m$ contract for 4 to 7 years, but it will be signed next summer.

That's what I hope...

If it's over 7m$ I will be sad

FrontierPsyCHiatrist* is offline  
Old
07-16-2013, 11:12 AM
  #65
Sorinth
Registered User
 
Sorinth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,273
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 11Goat11 View Post
For far too long there have been primma donnas and cliques in the Canadiens dressing room, I appreciate what Bergevin and Therrien are trying to accomplish here. What is the point of restricted free agency if teams are not going to use this mechanism to control young player costs? If Bergevin continues to operate this way guys like Galchenyuk will expect to get a bridge deal, this isn't NHL 14, you have to take egos and contract repercussions in the dressing room into consideration. That said, if Galch turns into an elite first line scorer Marc might have to cave, but remember PK was not a Norris winner when he got the bridge deal.
There have been no mention of cliques since Gainey blew up the team in 2009. And I seem to recall at the time one of the big reasons was that he wanted to change the culture of the team. So Gainey probably deserves more credit than Bergevin for that.

The main purpose of RFA is too control player movement, in doing so it helps control costs but that is not the main point. Also Subban will make more money over his career now then if he had a signed a long term deal last year. So the bridge deal didn't even do a good job at doing that.

Subban was already a top-pairing D which is justification for a long term deal. But at the end of the day if he produces Galchenyuk will want a long term deal and he will not care about what Subban did, he'll point out the dozens of players who didn't take a bridge deal. If MB plays hardball then we will have the same situation, one of our top players holding out. That's bad.

Sorinth is offline  
Old
07-16-2013, 11:18 AM
  #66
Bobby G
Registered User
 
Bobby G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,588
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmurfsFTW View Post
To show Subban more respect after an outstanding season and him holding out to sign a garbage deal for a defenseman his caliber, bergevin needs to apologize and recognize his mistake and give him the moon so he dosen't ditch a long term contract with the Habs. I have a feeling that once he hits UFA he'll be long gone if bergevin dosen't do that.

Just my 0.02$.
I actually agree. PK came in as a rookie as immediately stepped into the #1 role and was massive in the teams biggest playoff run since 93. But then I thought they (coaches, management and media) treated him like dirt.

It was clear to a lot of people (including PK) that he deserved a lot more than they gave him last off season.

Just give him the money, give him the years and get it done asap. Losing him would suck

Bobby G is offline  
Old
07-16-2013, 11:27 AM
  #67
Sorinth
Registered User
 
Sorinth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,273
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 11Goat11 View Post
Subbans own comments lead me to believe the bridge contract was extra motivation. I don't have the links but he was very adamant about how he wanted to prove his doubters wrong, and that he remembered who said what about him. I am not a Subban hater and have never believed the BS spread about him in the media, but he did change a few things about his image this year that helped his game, the team, and people's perception of him. I am not saying he wouldn't have continued to improve, but IMO the bridge contract changed him in a positive way that might not have occurred if he was given bank and the long term deal right away.
Well if he had signed a long term deal I'm sure people would have complained that it was too much and he didn't deserve it. Wouldn't that have also provided extra motivation? He'd still want to prove his doubters wrong. Putting someone in their "place" is not the only way to motivate someone.

As for his changing image, he was already heading in that direction if we look at his first season to his second season. Also having someone like Markov there probably had a bigger impact on him changing his image than a contract dispute.

Sorinth is offline  
Old
07-16-2013, 11:30 AM
  #68
Brainiac
Registered User
 
Brainiac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Montreal
Posts: 2,586
vCash: 552
Quote:
Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
He is under 7 months removed from a long contract dispute and holdout from Subban. It would be a little odd to come back with another offer right now....
Maybe, but on the other hand, it's a way of saying: 'Good job, PK, I told you that you'd get paid soon enough'.

Subban showed that he is commited to the team, he said many times he wants to be a Habs long-term and last year he was simply our MVP by a large margin. Now it's time to send a little recognition the other way.

Brainiac is offline  
Old
07-16-2013, 11:34 AM
  #69
Hullois
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Québec
Country: Martinique
Posts: 1,307
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxHabs24 View Post
The way I look at it:

Subban shouldn't be paid more than Price, our best player.

My guess is a 6m$ contract for 4 to 7 years, but it will be signed next summer.

That's what I hope...

If it's over 7m$ I will be sad
The thing is, Subban is already our best player, much better than Price. I would be extremely disspointed it that's Bergevin's position.

Hullois is offline  
Old
07-16-2013, 11:41 AM
  #70
Avim86
Registered User
 
Avim86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Montreal , Qc
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,510
vCash: 500
I want him to sign just so we don't have these kind of threads anymore...
He is obviously a very important part of our team , he should get 7-7.5 M on a 5-6 year deal that would make sense to me.

Avim86 is offline  
Old
07-16-2013, 12:01 PM
  #71
AJMHABS
On to Round 2!! :D
 
AJMHABS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Montreal, Qc
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,610
vCash: 500
Doesn't really matter IMO.

AJMHABS is offline  
Old
07-16-2013, 12:15 PM
  #72
Kriss E
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 22,814
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
Because I brought it up as a possibility means that I must believe it to be so???

Only a fool would say with certainty that the contact negotiations absolutely did or did not play a part as a variable in his development. We are all free to lean more to one side than the other but dealing with absolutes in a subjective discussion is a waste of everyone's time.

Personally I don't lean in either direction but instead acknowledge it as a possibility. If you are aware of anything else that I would like to say that I have yet to think of I would greatly appreciate you letting me know ASAP. You are like Galifianakis with his mind control powers. When I discover brain control we will revisit these conversations.

Well the way you were discussing the matter lead me to believe you thought it did. Sorry for the assumption.

But what I have an issue with is that it's such a small, insignificant reason that it is barely worthy of mention. It's as if he had signed a deal, won the Norris, and I said he wanted to prove to the world he was worth his deal. It's entirely subjective to begin with, and so, I find it rather unworthy of mention.

I believe his work ethic, his off/on ice training, his experience and maturity are why he won the Norris last season. Him wanting to prove he's worth more than a bridge deal is a superficial reason.
You can find a new one like this every year. Every year you can find about a million reasons of what players want to ''prove'' and say they served as motivation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 11Goat11 View Post
Subbans own comments lead me to believe the bridge contract was extra motivation. I don't have the links but he was very adamant about how he wanted to prove his doubters wrong, and that he remembered who said what about him. I am not a Subban hater and have never believed the BS spread about him in the media, but he did change a few things about his image this year that helped his game, the team, and people's perception of him. I am not saying he wouldn't have continued to improve, but IMO the bridge contract changed him in a positive way that might not have occurred if he was given bank and the long term deal right away.
As I said in the previous post, you can find a new reason every year (even more than one) that serves as motivation.
Now next year you can say he wants to prove his Norris is for real. Wants to put all the doubters that didn't vote for him in the right place. That it wasn't a fluke year. If he does it again and sign a massive deal, he wants to prove he's worth his deal.

Every player hears criticism, even through good seasons. I'm pretty sure they all want to put those critics back in their place. It's the competitive nature.

But PK was already showing signs of more maturity over the lockout, where he was poised and politically correct in his comments, meanwhile dumb and dumber duo Gorges-Cole keep saying dumb crap.

Like I said, I think saying the bridge deal was good because it served as motivation is a cop out. Has he signed a bigger deal, there would have been doubters, and they would have been vocal about it. They could have served as motivation as well.
It's all BS.

These negotiations happened after the lockout, just before the season. Summer training was over. He was ready to go. He's not the type of player that needs this extra motivation to up his level of play. The guy competes so hard even in practice that his teammates get pissed. So ya, I seriously doubt he had a laid back complacent approach to this season, and this contract pushed him over the edge.
Just look back at his interview when he was drafted, he said he wants to bring cups to Mtl. He always wanted to be the best. This negotiation didn't change anything.

It's a crap excuse the supporters of this deal cling on to because they have no other reason to really back it up with otherwise.

Kriss E is offline  
Old
07-16-2013, 12:19 PM
  #73
NewbieOfGames
Registered User
 
NewbieOfGames's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Québec, CAN
Country: Canada
Posts: 441
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxHabs24 View Post
The way I look at it:

Subban shouldn't be paid more than Price, our best player.

My guess is a 6m$ contract for 4 to 7 years, but it will be signed next summer.

That's what I hope...

If it's over 7m$ I will be sad
The way 99% of habs fans and experts look at it:

Subban should be paid more than Price, our most expensive player.

Our guess is around 7-8M$ for 4-7 years

If its under 7m$, im going to be very sad.

NewbieOfGames is offline  
Old
07-16-2013, 12:24 PM
  #74
uiCk
GrEmelins
 
uiCk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: MTL
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,301
vCash: 500
Given his "attitude" problems, any mistep should lower his percieved value. Though PK isn't stupid and hopefully give MB a taste of his own medicine. As in he should walk in MBs office, leave a napkin with the term and tell MB to call him when hes rdy to accept the offer.

uiCk is offline  
Old
07-16-2013, 12:27 PM
  #75
uiCk
GrEmelins
 
uiCk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: MTL
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,301
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewbieOfGames View Post
The way 99% of habs fans and experts look at it:

Subban should be paid more than Price, our most expensive player.

Our guess is around 7-8M$ for 4-7 years

If its under 7m$, im going to be very sad.
Everyone should be delighted if we can lock him up for under 7. Would make MBs bridge contract look more acceptable. Though chances of that are very alim since MB has 0 leverage on next contract talks. Absolutely 0.

uiCk is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:59 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.